Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:47 AM - Re: Re: NTSB report. (Gary Gower)
2. 04:20 AM - Re: Re: NTSB report. (jaybannist@cs.com)
3. 07:56 AM - Re: Re: NTSB report. (LarryMcFarland)
4. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: NTSB report (Bryan Martin)
5. 10:57 AM - Re: NTSB report (Sabrina)
6. 12:38 PM - Re: Re: NTSB report (Walter Carey)
7. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: XL wing concerns (Ron Pollock)
8. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: XL wing concerns (Bill Pagan)
9. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: XL wing concerns (Terry Turnquist)
10. 07:50 PM - Re: XL wing concerns (Ron Lendon)
11. 08:23 PM - Re: Re: XL wing concerns (Ron Pollock)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: NTSB report. |
I am still building my 601 XL-,- now finishing the Fuselage, will start
the wings soon...
-
I will like to hear some good answers about-simple questions:-
What will be more dangerous?- To over tight the-cables?--Or to have
the cables just a little loose (in the lower side of the-tension specs)?
--
-
Just wondering before I need a cable tension meter :-)
-
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala,- Mexico
701 912S- 230 hrs...
601XL- Jab-3300- Tail done, fuselage almost ready, wings next.
-
--- On Thu, 1/1/09, David X <dxj@comcast.net> wrote:
From: David X <dxj@comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: NTSB report
<dxj@comcast.net>
Take me off the list ... I already have a cable tension meter and a gaggle
of
other tools needed to properly maintain an aircraft. Their costs were minim
al
compared to the cost of the aircraft.
Perhaps you have an altimeter, airspeed indicator, compass and set of engin
e
gauges too. Those cost more than a cable tension meter. You should start a
list
to share those.
careywf(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:
> You're on the list Dave. Walt.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222257#222257
=0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: NTSB report. |
Gary,
I think over-tightening the aileron cables is dangerous, especially in cold weather.?
When it gets warm, the wings will expand more than the cables, effectively
tightening them more.? Too much tension on the cables can damage the aileron
bellcrank support structures.
I re-set mine during cold weather at the bottom end of the recommended range.?
I will check them again in the Spring, when it begins to warm up, to see what
effect ambient temperature change has on the cable tension.
I know that temperature will effect cable tension.? I wonder if the wings flex
enough during flight to effect tension.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive? ?
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 2:44 am
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: NTSB report.
I am still building my 601 XL?,? now finishing the Fuselage, will start the wings
soon...
?
I will like to hear some good answers about?simple questions:?
What will be more dangerous?? To over tight the?cables???Or to have the cables
just a little loose (in the lower side of the?tension specs)???
?
Just wondering before I need a cable tension meter :-)
?
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala,? Mexico
701 912S? 230 hrs...
601XL? Jab?3300? Tail done, fuselage almost ready, wings next.
?
--- On Thu, 1/1/09, David X <dxj@comcast.net> wrote:
From: David X <dxj@comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: NTSB report
<dxj@comcast.net>
Take me off the list ... I already have a cable tension meter and a gaggle of
other tools needed to properly maintain an aircraft. Their costs were minimal
compared to the cost of the aircraft.
Perhaps you have an altimeter, airspeed indicator, compass and set of engine
gauges too. Those cost more than a cable tension meter. You should start a list
to share those.
careywf(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:
> You're on the list Dave. Walt.
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222257#222257
________________________________________________________________________
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: NTSB report. |
Hi Gary,
Over-tight cables will result in worn pivot bearings and perhaps bent
wing rib supports for the bell cranks. Loose is not good either, but
the spec tends to carry tightness to a maximum which is as bad as over
tight. 25 to 30 lbs is tight for any cable, unless it is of considerable
length and is unsupported along its length. It is the unrestrained
weight of a cable that is considered a "player" in the flutter
discussions and
that's any cable with low enough tension to swing freely between its
ends. In most cases, you cannot get that with 25 to 30 lbs.
Easy enough to feel the difference if you think about it. A tension
gage might be more useful to avoid over tightening as loose is easy
to diagnose.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Gary Gower wrote:
> I am still building my 601 XL , now finishing the Fuselage, will
> start the wings soon...
>
> I will like to hear some good answers about simple questions:
> What will be more dangerous? To over tight the cables? Or to have
> the cables just a little loose (in the lower side of the tension
> specs)?
>
> Just wondering before I need a cable tension meter :-)
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> Flying from Chapala, Mexico
> 701 912S 230 hrs...
> 601XL Jab 3300 Tail done, fuselage almost ready, wings next.
>
>
Message 4
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Some CZAW built aircraft were shipped to this country and assembled
here by the distributer. They never had an AW certificate issued to
them in any country. They were registered here as ELSA under the "fat
ultralight" exemption. They were not converted from SLSA. Part 43
doesn't apply to these aircraft. Anyone can perform the maintenance on
them, an RLSA-I or higher is required to sign off the annual
inspection. These aircraft can be used for hire for the purpose of
flight instruction until January 31, 2010. If they are actually used
for hire for flight instruction they must also receive 100 hour
inspections conducted by the holder of an RLSA-M or higher certificate.
As for an SLSA converted to ELSA, it appears that you are correct in
that Part 43 does apply and an RLSA-M or higher is required for most
types of maintenance. According to the EAA, the FAA may propose new
rules to change this requirement for converted ELSAs.
>
> <chicago2paris@msn.com>
>
> Bryan,
>
> Where an S-LSA is converted into an E-LSA, I was told that it could
> not be repaired by just anyone.
>
> The basis is 14 CFR 43.1.
>
> First, there is a prior EU Airworthiness Certificate which is
> equivalent to a previously issued FAA certificate so there is no
> experimental exemption for an E-LSA previously certified as
> airworthy by an S-LSA mfg. 14 CFR 43.1(b)
>
> Second, Part 43 applies to any aircraft issued a special
> airworthiness certificate in the light sport category EXCEPT where
> the products are not produced under an FAA approval... without the
> double negative: Part 43 applies to all LSAs where the part being
> installed or repaired was produced under an FAA approval.
>
> Parts provided by Zenith or Can Zac would be exempt and could be
> installed or repaired on an E-LSA by anyone over 18 assuming no
> commercial use.
>
> Parts provided by CZAW or AMD would not be exempt.
>
> Since the parts on the converted E-LSA were produced by CZAW, Part
> 43 applies and an RLSA or higher is required to repair them.
> Correct?
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
Message 5
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Thank you Bryan... the problem is that CZAW registered the serial numbers and obtained
EU documents, and those same serial numbers show up here.
The FAA data base calls fat ultralight E-LSAs that had not been registered before:
"Experimental Operating Light Sport"
The FAA data base shows E-LSA's where the serial numbers were previously registered
as "Experimental Registered Prior"
I was told that a license was needed to maintain an "Experimental Registered Prior".
This is where the FAA and EAA are working on a solution to allow the owner
to perform their maintenance after the new regulations take place.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222406#222406
Message 6
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Thank you John. Walt.
--- On Thu, 1/1/09, John Smith <zenithlist@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: John Smith <zenithlist@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: NTSB report
Being cheap or foolish is irrelevant.- The important thing is the have th
e cables tensioned correctly anyway possible, and Walter is offering one-
method to do just that.
From: David X <dxj@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 1, 2009 1:22:40 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: NTSB report
I can't imagine why someone would spend so much money and time on such a th
ing as aircraft, yet not invest a few hundred in a cable tension meter (or
pay an AP to check the tensions). There's cheap, and then there's foolish.
zenithlist(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Walter,
>-
>- I think your idea of share cable tension gauge is great.- It allows
the gauge to be more
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3D
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: XL wing concerns |
As someone monitoring this discussion because of an interest in plans
building a 601 or equiv, I'd appreciate any opinions relative to my
position. Especially whether the 650 is susceptible to the same
issues. What would you do if you were just thinking of getting
started.
Thanks, Ron in L.A.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: XL wing concerns |
I'm comfortable with my choice and would not hesitate to do it again.
Bill Pagan
EAA Tech Counselor #4395
601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
--- On Fri, 1/2/09, Ron Pollock <ronpollock@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Ron Pollock <ronpollock@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: XL wing concerns
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
As someone monitoring this discussion because of an interest in plans
building a 601 or equiv, I'd appreciate any opinions relative to my
position. Especially whether the 650 is susceptible to the same
issues. What would you do if you were just thinking of getting
started.
Thanks, Ron in L.A.
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: XL wing concerns |
Tough question...I don't imagine you'll get many takers on that one!
Do not Archive
Terry Turnquist
601XL-Plans
As someone monitoring this discussion because of an interest in plans
building a 601 or equiv, I'd appreciate any opinions relative to my
position. Especially whether the 650 is susceptible to the same
issues. What would you do if you were just thinking of getting
started.
Thanks, Ron in L.A.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: XL wing concerns |
ronpollock(at)gmail.com wrote:
> As someone monitoring this discussion because of an interest in plans
> building a 601 or equiv, I'd appreciate any opinions relative to my
> position. Especially whether the 650 is susceptible to the same
> issues. What would you do if you were just thinking of getting
> started.
>
> Thanks, Ron in L.A.
If you are a pilot, fly one. I did and bought the plans on the way home from the
airport. With plans building you need to put some time in almost every day
so plan your workspace.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222497#222497
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: XL wing concerns |
Thanks Ron. I'm plans building a 701 now so know the drill. Just took a liking
to the 601 and ran into a bunch of controversy I'm trying to sort out. Add to
that the new model and trying to sort that out. Guess my real question was whether
some here, if starting now, would build from 650 plans. I've gotten feedback
that they are almost mix & match.
I wasn't asking if anyone had regrets or would go non-Zenair. But I'm happy to
hear those happy with their 601s as from my position a little extra confidence
is required to start on.
Ron in L.A.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Lendon <rlendon@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 7:49 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: XL wing concerns
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