Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:57 AM - canopy construction sequence (chris Sinfield)
2. 07:31 AM - Re: canopy construction sequence (Sabrina)
3. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: In-flight opening of front hinged canopy (Jim Belcher)
4. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: In-flight opening of front hinged canopy. (Bill Naumuk)
5. 10:45 AM - This list (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
6. 11:02 AM - Re: Zenith-List: Re: Open canopy accident (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
7. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: parts location ()
8. 12:06 PM - Re: canopy construction sequence (Sabrina)
9. 12:26 PM - Re: In-flight opening of front hinged canopy. ()
10. 01:39 PM - Re: canopy construction sequence (chris Sinfield)
11. 04:34 PM - Re: canopy construction sequence (leinad)
12. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: In-flight opening of front hinged canopy (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
13. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: In-flight opening of front hinged canopy (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
14. 06:04 PM - Some videos of us flying (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
15. 08:15 PM - Re: canopy construction sequence (Thruster87)
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| Subject: | canopy construction sequence |
Hi all
finished my Christmas house building and now back into XL plane building.
I started on the canopy (old one not 650) and now up to the 6-C-3 section but that
appears to be ahead and shows mostly finished pictures.
Should I be using 6-C-3a,b,c,d before plain just 6-C-3??
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224010#224010
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| Subject: | Re: canopy construction sequence |
Yes... and page 1 of 12 of 6-C-3A is very important. If you move the canopy more
forward than 190mm you can gain some head room, but then you have to shorten
the 9416K12 gas spring struts so the canopy does not hit up against 6C1-4 when
fully open.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224035#224035
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| Subject: | Re: In-flight opening of front hinged canopy |
On Saturday 10 January 2009 19:40, jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> Bryan,
>
> Monday morning quarterbacking is great!? At about pattern altitude, canopy
> pops fully open, nose goes down 60+ degrees, 100 mph & increasing, headset
> ripped off your head, cruise power,.? What would you do?
Jay, I sympathize. Having totaled an aircraft in the 1970s, I can look back
and see what I could have done differently. Whether any other options were
open to you guys, you would know better than I.
At the time, though, I did the best I could. I'm sure you guys did the same.
--
=============================================
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
================================================
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: In-flight opening of front hinged canopy. |
Gary-
I totally agree with you- you want to keep the parts you have rather
than jettison them. I don't think there's a pilot out there who hasn't
had an oil hatch or door open in flight, and let's face it, there are a
couple of seconds when you're trying to assess the situation. If your
first instinct is to hit the "Jettison" button there'd be a lot of
planes flying around with missing parts.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Gower
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: In-flight opening of front hinged
canopy.
Hello Sabrina,
I consider that ejectable canopy is a bad idea, I will try to
explain it as short as possible, The ejected canopy can hit and
serious damage, or destroy the Rudder! Even that is plexiglass, has
lots of metal parts in the structure.
Lets remember what happened to the door that opened/loosed in a
701 recently.
The airplane almost loosed the stabilator...
All airplanes needs the empenage to keep them flying... At least
the ZAC ones, I know Rogalos and Paraglaiders dont :-) :-)
One thing I consider very important is Check List(s) in all
airplanes, (I remember) from simple Hang Gliders (Are you hooked?), to
the Space Shuttle pilots, WE MUST go though all of them, not just by
memory.
My Instructor was very Serious about this! (and with everything
he teached me).
In all airplanes that have canopies, doors, windows that can
open (C-152 for example), baggage compartment lids, etc. A very
important point is that the pilot in command (Us) make sure that they
are ALL perfectly closed before take off...
In my 701, everytime I have a passenger I double check that his
seat belt is buckled and adjusted and the door latch is completly
closed. I plan to do the same every take off with the 601 XL's canopy
latch... (hope this year).
Just my personal point of view.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
A Old Pilot friend of mine told me when I just had my Pilot
Licence:
"Fly every time the same as if your Instructor was in your right
seat".
--- On Sat, 1/10/09, Sabrina <chicago2paris@msn.com> wrote:
From: Sabrina <chicago2paris@msn.com>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: In-flight opening of front hinged
canopy
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 8:37 PM
<chicago2paris@msn.com>
Paul, all...
What do you think about an XL canopy that can be ejected?
Is it needed?
The mod costs less than $40 (two MS17985-414 quick release pins and one
foot
of 4130 square tubing) but the pair of goggles needed, just in case,
cost about
$30 each for a total of $100 and 14 ounces of added weight, total.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223955#223955
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I just wanted to post here.
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
_www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/)
_www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/)
_www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/)
Do not archive
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
cemailfooterNO62)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List: Re: Open canopy accident |
Larry,
I really wasn't trying to throw stones at Jay I was simply trying to inform
folks that the 601 can be flown with the Canopy open and not to freak out if
it happens and pics don't lie. So if Jay or you think I was somehow directing
it directly at them so be it. I just know that if anyone brings up that it
can be flown with it open Jay gets upset so why comment on it? I to am glad he
didn't get hurt and walked away and it is true that the 601 in the pic's
wasn't a AMD and it didn't have a 0-200 and it had different color paint but I
still stand behind what I said and that is that if the aircraft wasn't over
gross and was within proper CG it should have been stable with the canopy open
provide the plane didn't get too slow. I'm not even gonna comment on your
rudeness though Mr. Hursh
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
_www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/)
_www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/)
_www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/)
Do not archive
Mr Garrett,
What you don't seem to understand is that Jay has possibly posted to the
wrong forum. I believe he is posting to a response from the Zenith 601 forum,
correct Jay? (Isn't that the forum you are banned from Mr Garrett?) Either
way, I found your reply to Jay as being very crass and without any
compassion. You wasn't there so you have NO CLUE as to what to do or what should
have
been done differently. Each and every circumstance is different. Sure the
POH can give you a possible corrective course of action, but NOTHING is for
certain and since you wasn't there, you have no idea as to what you should do
or what you would have done differently. Why is it that you seemed to want to
chastise Jay for mentioning it? All I can say to end this mess is THANK GOD
Jay and his CFI II was able to get the plane on the ground. I'll leave you
with this one final thought Mr Garrett - My father used to tell me, "If you
can't say anything nice to someone, it's just best to keep your mo!
uth SHUT and your eyes and ears OPEN. You learn more that way". :)
--------
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)
CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
Starting fuselage
will be Corvair Powered
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
cemailfooterNO62)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: parts location |
Harbor Freight's aviation department sells a cheap, 30-inch brake that
bolts to a table for about $30. I've made and re-made more parts on it
than I want to admit to.
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Ronald Steele<mailto:rsteele@rjsit.com>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: parts location
<rsteele@rjsit.com<mailto:rsteele@rjsit.com>>
I'm going to go in a complete different direction here. Sooner or
later you are going to end up with a sheet metal bending break. It's
one of those thing that most builders are going to need sooner or
later. It may be for fabricating parts for your panel, fire wall
forward stuff, or as in my case to remake parts you screwed up.
I don't know what your are missing besides the bell crank support, but
if doesn't look too complicated, you should think about getting a
small cheap break. A break is under $100 and will let you fabricate a
lot of parts, including the bell crank support in a few minutes. I'm
a worry wart, always thinking I'm going to miss drill a hole and
knowing I can make a new part quickly is a real stress reliever.
So, my suggestion is a couple of 2/4ft sheets of 6061-t6 from ACS and
a cheap break.
Don't forget to have fun,
Ron
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:58 AM, Jim Belcher wrote:
<z601@anemicaardvark.com<mailto:z601@anemicaardvark.com>
> >
>
> On Wednesday 07 January 2009 23:02, Gary Gower wrote:
>> (Cant remember who posted, sorry)
>>
>> It is important to double check all the packing with your Kit,
>> before send
>> it to the garbage... I am shure you will find everything sooner or
>> later.
>> In our city we have already built 4 CH 701 kits and I am now about
>> half
>> way building a 601 XL kit and I can say with truth, that nothing
>> of this
>> five kits parts were missing, not even a washer. Just one or two
>> parts did
>> not had the paper label, but where easy to identify with the plans.
>> Just our personal experience, some other local builder of kits for
>> diferent
>> airplanes, cant say the same.
>> Here in Mexico. like for all other builder in countries around the
>> world,
>> is very important, because the shipping and import taxes are
>> expensive and
>> paperwork is HUGE. No Custom Agent will accept that the missing
>> shipped
>> parts (sent later) have already paid their share, to dificult to
>> explain
>> and impossible proof.
>> Saludos
>
> I've gone through the packing as I disposed of it. There simply
> isn't room to
> unpack everything and inventory it at the start, which is what I had
> hoped to
> do. I've gone through it several times, and checked the locations
just
> suggested by others on the list. I don't doubt the parts are
> there ....
> somewhere. The problem is, I don't know where.
>
> I would fault Zenith for not having a standardized location for
> parts in the
> packing, so that one always looks for things in the same place. That
> place
> should be on the inventory list they create, IMHO. But as far as
> shorting me
> parts, I have no reason at present to suggest Zenith has done
> anything like
> that. They seem honest, and above board.
>
> But in my case, I've already spent 2+ hours looking for 4 parts
> worth a total
> $16. For me, I can't imagine a scenario in which it wouldn't be
> cheaper and
> quicker to replace the parts. When the others turn up later, I can
> either use
> them on the next project, or offer them to someone else with the
same
> problem.
>
> Shipping by anything other than FEDEX, UPS, or USPS is a large
> problem here in
> far west Texas. It's 150 miles to a freight dock. However, at least
> I'm not
> paying import duties or customs fees.
> --
>
====================
> Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
>
=======================
> Jim B. Belcher
> BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
> A&P/IA
> Instrument Rated Pilot
> General Radio Telephone Certificate
>
=======================
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: canopy construction sequence |
Building the Canopy...
A problem I noticed in mid-2006...
How do people feel about page 12 of 12 in 6-C-3A where it tells you to grind a
slot in the 7/8" .058 4130 tube?
Can anyone find in their version of the PLANS where this slot is mentioned? 6-C-2
I did not do it, I thought it would take away from any roll over protection. The
.009 of clearance was enough. 3/4 OD tube inside a 7/8 4130 tube with .058
walls.
Comments?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224085#224085
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: In-flight opening of front hinged canopy. |
Gentlemen, sometimes reductio ad absurdam really does get to the heart
of the matter:
1: Canopy came open.
2: Aircraft was not reduced to rubble.
3: Occupants walked away.
4: Nobody unhappy with item 3.
and, 5: We learned it can be done. 'nuff said.
If some guy flying through severe turbulence hits a bird, which trashes
his canopy, goes into a spin, loses his prop to over speed, , regains
control in time to clip a high tension wire, which rips off his rudder,
slashes through a tree, locks up his brakes blows both tires, and stops
6 inches away from a station wagon full of nuns, I ain't gonna tell him
he should have done such-and-such! Nothing outweighs the phrase, "I(we)
made it!"
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Gower<mailto:ggower_99@yahoo.com>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: In-flight opening of front hinged canopy.
Hello Jay M.
Just a very short comment: You are right, Jay B and Pilot did
the best thing, they managed to land and are alive...
One thing very important for ALL of us is to try to keep calm in
any type of personal emergency situation... if Fear and Desparation are
winning, Clear Mind is loosing...
Easy to say but hard to do in "that" moment.
Jay B. Thank you very much for your experience, hope all of us
learn something from this list that can help us in the future to come.
Saludos
Gary Gower
I remeber an old local saying with motorcycles: "Only the ones
that dont ride, will not fall..." (translated from Spanish).
Keep safe, but not too much to not enjoy life... :-)
--- On Sat, 1/10/09, Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com> wrote:
From: Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: In-flight opening of front
hinged canopy
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 8:52 PM
<jmaynard@conmicro.com>
On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 08:40:38PM -0500, jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> Monday morning quarterbacking is great!? At about pattern altitude,
canopy
> pops fully open, nose goes down 60+ degrees, 100 mph & increasing,
headset
> ripped off your head, cruise power,.? What would you do?
*sigh*
People, we need to remember, when disucssing these things, that people
we
know and consider friends have been right in the middle of the kinds of
failures we're discussing, and refrain from casting aspersions on the
abilities of folks who have been there and done that.
We can and should learn from others' experiences...but we should not say
we'd have done things differently in the heat of the moment - because
there's just no way to know. Sometimes, what the book says we should do
and
what we think we will do as we're sitting in front of the computer
don't
correspond to what we actually wind up doing when the canopy comes open.
As for me, I make certain to double check the security of the (in my
case,
new-style) canopy latch on both sides before taxi, and again before
takeoff,
as a result of Jay's accident. I've also given careful consideration to
how
I'll handle that occurrence. Even so, I'm not going to sit here and say
that
he screwed up. I suggest none of us are the position to do so.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
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| Subject: | Re: canopy construction sequence |
thanks Sabrina
I am not a tall person so 190mm is OK by me..
Chris
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224096#224096
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| Subject: | Re: canopy construction sequence |
When I started building my canopy I wasn't aware that the slots were allowed.
When adjusting the final length of the rear hoop I got quite frustrated with how
hard it was to move the aluminum hoop in the steel tubing of the canopy frame.
Just about then I found Zenith was recommending the slot. If for nothing
else it makes assembly, disassembly and adjustment many time easier. I don't
think it had much (if any) a negative impact on the structural integrity. Here's
a link to a photo detail of the slot.
http://daniel.dempseyfamily.us/zodiac/canopy/pilotside.htm
Dan Dempsey
Sabrina wrote:
> Building the Canopy...
>
> A problem I noticed in mid-2006...
>
> How do people feel about page 12 of 12 in 6-C-3A where it tells you to grind
a slot in the 7/8" .058 4130N tube?
>
> Can anyone find in their version of the PLANS where this slot is mentioned?
6-C-2
>
> I did not do it, I thought it would take away from any roll over protection.
The .009 of clearance was enough. 3/4 OD tube inside a 7/8 4130N tube with .058
walls.
>
> Comments?
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224118#224118
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: In-flight opening of front hinged canopy |
Do you have any information about where the canopy will go when released?
Does it hit the rudder, ect? Jerry of Ga DO NOT ARCHIVE
In a message dated 1/10/2009 8:38:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
chicago2paris@msn.com writes:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris@msn.com>
Paul, all...
What do you think about an XL canopy that can be ejected?
Is it needed?
The mod costs less than $40 (two MS17985-414 quick release pins and one
foot of 4130 square tubing) but the pair of goggles needed, just in case, cost
about $30 each for a total of $100 and 14 ounces of added weight, total.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223955#223955
**************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002)
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| Subject: | Re: In-flight opening of front hinged canopy |
I'm not sure this would work. what effect do you think the turtle deck
opening might have as far as drag or would you just cover up the opening? I would
be to afraid it would smack the rudder and then you might be even worse off.
I think a better solution would be a ejection seat then you would go straight
thru the canopy.
BTW that last part was a joke
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 85 Hrs think it's right this time
_www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/)
_www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/)
_www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/)
Do not archive
Paul, all...
What do you think about an XL canopy that can be ejected?
Is it needed?
The mod costs less than $40 (two MS17985-414 quick release pins and one
foot of 4130 square tubing) but the pair of goggles needed, just in case, cost
about $30 each for a total of $100 and 14 ounces of added weight, total.
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
cemailfooterNO62)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Some videos of us flying |
After switching from the front starter kit to the Aerolite rear system we
flew from Louisville Ky to spend the night with Bill Clapp then on to Englewood
Fl. The flight was great.
Here are the #'s
Voltage was 14 volts steady
Oil pressure was steady 40 lbs
Cht's were 125-130 steady and 200-225 climb
Egt 1050 steady
Oil temp 60 degrees OAT were 255 before the cooler and 190-200 after cooler
(with my new fiberglass baffles installed but had some air loss so should see
10 degree drop after sealing.)
Here are some youtube links
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyx2nalW9gs_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyx2nalW9gs)
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC4fF0uTuxQ_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC4fF0uTuxQ)
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEbz-AK3YU0_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEbz-AK3YU0)
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JPnUcicz7k_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JPnUcicz7k)
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
_www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/)
_www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/)
_www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/)
Do not archive
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
cemailfooterNO62)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: canopy construction sequence |
These slots were already cut on my kit [bought 12 mths ago]which made it easy to
adjust the bow. If you had to rely on it for roll over protection I think you
would come out second best.I made a gusset which spans the two turtle deck bows
at the bottom and it is very sturdy now.Cheers
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224157#224157
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