Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:08 AM - Re: Dutch XL crash findings (n85ae)
2. 08:28 AM - Dutch XL crash finding (Frank Derfler)
3. 02:22 PM - Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 39 Msgs - 01/15/09 (mversteeg)
4. 05:40 PM - Cowling winterization plate (Jay Maynard)
5. 06:20 PM - Re: Cowling winterization plate (Sabrina)
6. 06:25 PM - Re: Cowling winterization plate (Paul Mulwitz)
7. 06:27 PM - Re: Re: Cowling winterization plate (Jay Maynard)
8. 06:31 PM - Re: Dutch XL crash findings (Sabrina)
9. 06:47 PM - Re: Cowling winterization plate (Sabrina)
10. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: Cowling winterization plate (Jay Maynard)
11. 07:22 PM - Re: Re: Cowling winterization plate (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 07:29 PM - Re: Re: Cowling winterization plate (Jay Maynard)
13. 07:30 PM - Re: Cowling winterization plate (Sabrina)
14. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: Cowling winterization plate (Jay Maynard)
15. 07:40 PM - Re: Cowling winterization plate (T. Graziano)
16. 07:46 PM - Re: Re: Cowling winterization plate (Paul Mulwitz)
17. 07:57 PM - Re: Cowling winterization plate (Sabrina)
18. 08:24 PM - webcam is up (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Dutch XL crash findings |
dougsire wrote:
>
> What type of Cherrymax rivets are you using? I'm planning on using solid or
Cherrymax in some areas, but I'm a bit confused by the different types (Aluminum,
Monel, INCO).
>
Doug - For what it's worth, you might be better off to buy a rivet gun and
use solids. The Cherrymax rivets are good rivets, no doubt. But they are
so costly you won't shoot very many before you have out spent the cost
of a gun. I bought a gun, and shot a lot of solids using a hammer with
a polished head as a bucking bar at pretty low cost. I've bought a couple
bucking bars now, as I find it is more convenient. Solids are easy to
shoot with just a little practice.
The AD solids are stronger than the CherryMax as well, and you can buy
them by the pound really cheap.
Regards,
Jeff Hays
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225102#225102
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| Subject: | Dutch XL crash finding |
A couple of quick observations...
1. Based on my career experience as a Washington DC bureaucrat, that notice
reads like something written by one person with little coordination and less
preparation. My government-trained antenna says , "Pure amateur result from
a staff guy under pressure" He's really got nothing to backup anything.
2. Based on my observations of my own GPS systems (Garmin 196 and Garmin
396) even when the antennas are sitting motionless on the back deck of my
house, the GPS-derived altitude is all over the place. And, of course, when
flying they show ground speed. So, I have a hard time putting a lot of
faith in the GPS record to determine the altitude variations, air speed, and
G-loading of the aircraft in the few seconds before the accident.
Would some "Dutch rolls" (pardon the pun) show up on a GPS record? (Don't
go off on that, it's mostly a bad joke)
I file the Dutch notice under trivial distractions not helpful to the
question.
-- Frank Derfler
Flying an AMD-made 601XL over the Florida Keys
--
Twitter! Follow me at http://Twitter.com/Fderfler
See my new Novel, "A Glint in Time" at http://GreatGuyBooks.com.
See my discussion of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or
(blatantly) immoral at http://mostlyflying.com
Anybody who READS (anybody out there?) See www.greatguybooks.com
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 39 Msgs - 01/15/09 |
Hello Jon,
Looks great such a shiny 'new' engine. Could you provide us with some
additional
information: manufacturer, weight, time since delivery and price (if not
too private).
Regards,
Maarten, 601xl, 6484
Plans building, wings completed, just started on fuselage
> Time: 06:30:11 PM PST US
> Subject: Zenith601-List: My Corvair Engine Arrived!
> From: "jonaburns" <lsapilot@hotmail.com>
>
>
> To my delight, a nice guy in a truck from Yellow Transportation helped me unload
> a crate with my name on it.
>
> Of course, I knew what was inside, but since it is less than a month since Christmas,
> (and we still have our decorations up) I pretended to be surprised to find
> a shiny "new" Corvair engine gently strapped inside.
>
> Here are a couple of pics...
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| Subject: | Cowling winterization plate |
I need to do something to make my O-200 happier in the winter. I haven't
seen oil temperatures above 140 F since it got cold around here. that's
making me nervous about not boiling the condensation out of the oil.
The O-200, at least in the AMD Zodiac, does not have an oil cooler to cover
up. That means I need to restrict airflow through the cowling. I've spoken
to an owner in Crookston, Minnesota, and he recommended that I first make a
plate to cover the air exit from the bottom of the cowling, and then add
plates at the inlet only if that doesn't do enough. I've got no problems
with that plan in general. The question I have, however, is simple: How do I
attach the plate?
The forward end would need to attach somewhere inside the lower cowl,
forward of the opening. That's easily enough done: holes in the cowl itself,
and rivnuts in the plate. The fun comes in attaching the rear of the plate
to the firewall. Suggestions? More rivnuts at the bottom of the firewall
itself, or are there better ideas?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
The TCM manual allows you to run at 4 quarts of oil rather than 6. That will
increase your oil temp. Steep climbs at full power will do the same. Modifying
an S-LSAs does not sound like the answer. Another option: Royco has a flight
ready preservative oil that fights the corrosion you are worried about.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225208#225208
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
Hi Jay,
First, I would stay away from rivnuts. They have a horrible
reputation for spinning in their holes so you can't unfasten the
screws later on. If you feel you must use threaded fasteners, then
you should learn about nut-plates or just use bolts and nuts.
You might do a lot better to use ordinary pulled rivets. I suggest
you practice a little at installing them and drilling them out when
you want them to be gone. To be consistent with the construction of
the plane you should use Avex rivets (get a fellow Zenith builder to
donate a handful of them - we all have lots of extras). For
something like these air baffles you would probably be ok with
hardware store rivets. Perhaps 1/8" aluminum short or medium length.
You might start with .025 or .016 6061-T6 sheet metal and drill first
with #40 pilot drill and then line-drill with #30 for the 1/8"
rivets. (Line drilling is when you drill through both connecting
sheets at the same time. This gets the holes perfectly lined up.)
I'd suggest leaving the firewall alone and using the skin behind the
firewall for your new baffle attachment.
Good luck,
Paul
XL getting close
Good luck,
Paul
At 05:39 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote:
>
>I need to do something to make my O-200 happier in the winter. I haven't
>seen oil temperatures above 140 F since it got cold around here. that's
>making me nervous about not boiling the condensation out of the oil.
>
>The O-200, at least in the AMD Zodiac, does not have an oil cooler to cover
>up. That means I need to restrict airflow through the cowling. I've spoken
>to an owner in Crookston, Minnesota, and he recommended that I first make a
>plate to cover the air exit from the bottom of the cowling, and then add
>plates at the inlet only if that doesn't do enough. I've got no problems
>with that plan in general. The question I have, however, is simple: How do I
>attach the plate?
>
>The forward end would need to attach somewhere inside the lower cowl,
>forward of the opening. That's easily enough done: holes in the cowl itself,
>and rivnuts in the plate. The fun comes in attaching the rear of the plate
>to the firewall. Suggestions? More rivnuts at the bottom of the firewall
>itself, or are there better ideas?
>--
>Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
>http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
>Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
>AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
>
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 06:17:53PM -0800, Sabrina wrote:
> The TCM manual allows you to run at 4 quarts of oil rather than 6. That
> will increase your oil temp.
My engine likes to run about 4-1/2 quarts anyway...mor than that just gets
blown out the breather.
> Steep climbs at full power will do the same.
That's how I'm getting up to 140. :-)
> Modifying an S-LSA???s does not sound like the answer.
This is with permission of AMD; they want a drawing of whatever I come up
with so they can offer it as an option.
> Another option: Royco has a flight ready preservative oil that fights the
> corrosion you are worried about.
That might not be a bad idea at all.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
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| Subject: | Re: Dutch XL crash findings |
"I am adding cherry max rivets to the first 3 aileron attach holes" Jeff
Great idea... at least one, maybe 10 more with gussets...
Of course, if I were offered a set of free flex hinge ailerons, they would be on
my aircraft before the next flight...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225212#225212
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gussets_679.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
Do you have CHT and EGT gauges? What are they reading?
Rather than closing off the exit, changing the lower cowl's lip will dramatically
change the air flow.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225214#225214
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/exit_150.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 06:46:21PM -0800, Sabrina wrote:
> Do you have CHT and EGT gauges? What are they reading?
They're normal: CHTs in the mid to upper 200s, dropping below the 200 F
yellow line when I power back for maneuvers (I'm working on a CFI-SP); EGTs
are in the 1300s, and can easily be raised with a little leaning. It's just
the oil temperature that's worrying me.
> Rather than closing off the exit, changing the lower cowl's lip will
> dramatically change the air flow.
True...but my goal is to have something that can easily be installed and
removed as necessary, similar to the winterization plates on other aircraft.
What would be really nice is if it had cowl flaps...
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
I've been trying to think of non-destructive ways to block off the
air flow out of your cowl.
One idea is to take some sheet metal, or if you must poster-board,
and tape it temporarily in place with good old duct tape. You can
cut a sheet to size and slide it into the cowl exit hole and then
tape the front in place. Then tape the back to the cabin floor.
This might not give a good final fix for your winter cooling issue,
but it might lead to a good one.
Paul
XL getting close
At 07:11 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote:
> > Rather than closing off the exit, changing the lower cowl's lip will
> > dramatically change the air flow.
>
>True...but my goal is to have something that can easily be installed and
>removed as necessary, similar to the winterization plates on other aircraft.
>What would be really nice is if it had cowl flaps...
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 07:21:39PM -0800, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> One idea is to take some sheet metal, or if you must poster-board, and
> tape it temporarily in place with good old duct tape. You can cut a sheet
> to size and slide it into the cowl exit hole and then tape the front in
> place. Then tape the back to the cabin floor.
Cabin floor? The only thing at the back of the cowl exit is the firewall.
Still, you've hit on how I plan to dummy it up, although I plan to use
something besides duct tape that will come off without leaving a residue
behind. Ain't no way I'm gonna ever use duct tape on my airplane.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
There is at least one oil sump blanket that is STC'd for the O-200A in flight.
Use that and then pre-heat your oil with a plug in dip stick heater that is
removed before flight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225221#225221
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 07:30:03PM -0800, Sabrina wrote:
> There is at least one oil sump blanket that is STC'd for the O-200A in
> flight. Use that and then pre-heat your oil with a plug in dip stick
> heater that is removed before flight.
I've got a Tanis on my engine, and use it religiously when the temperature
is below 40 F. It includes an oil sump heater. Do you think blocking off the
sump alone will get the temperature back up?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
If you do use any riv-nuts, what I do is to install them with loctite 262,
or equilivant, around the head/O.D. Has worked for me.
"............I would stay away from rivnuts. They have a horrible
reputation for spinning in their holes so you can't unfasten the
screws later on. If you feel you must use threaded fasteners, then
you should learn about nut-plates or just use bolts and
nuts................"
Tony Graziano
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
Try 200 mph tape from Wal*Mart. This is the stuff NASCAR racers use
for the same sort of thing. I also use a lot of it while building my
XL. It only looks like duct tape. Duck brand is the best, in my
opinion, and Wal*mart has it. If there is any problem removing the
adhesive, just use a little lacquer thinner on a rag to wipe it off.
The cabin floor is attached to the bottom of the fire wall. This
would be a nice place to tape the aft end of a sheet of metal to hold
it in place for a test flight.
In no event would I drill holes in the firewall. That is just asking
for trouble - not to mention dull drill bits.
I was thinking two or three sheets taped in place in the corners and
middle of the cowl exit hole would work well. You can adjust the
size of each piece to get the amount of cooling reduction you
want. After you have found a nice size opening to have for your own
personal climate you can rivet some aluminum in the same place.
Paul
At 07:28 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote:
>Cabin floor? The only thing at the back of the cowl exit is the firewall.
>Still, you've hit on how I plan to dummy it up, although I plan to use
>something besides duct tape that will come off without leaving a residue
>behind. Ain't no way I'm gonna ever use duct tape on my airplane.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
the original sump blankets were asbestos, the new ones? most cannot be flown...
it should keep your heat in, there are auto dipstick heaters in varying wattages,
pick the one that works best... just remove it before flight...
as for duct tape, I have seen ferry permits signed off with duct taped repairs
after a bird strike... if it falls off, it won't hurt anyone, same for the styrofoam...
at KPWK, many a plane was winterized with duct tape...
www.redgreen.com :o)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225226#225226
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I hope to get a lot done tonight.... hope to light up the panel and run the
brake lines.
_www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com)
Jeff
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
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