Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Cowling winterization plate (David Downey)
2. 07:53 AM - Re: Cowling winterization plate (Sabrina)
3. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Cowling winterization plate (Jim Belcher)
4. 09:01 AM - Duct tape removal (Terry Turnquist)
5. 09:29 AM - Re: Cowling winterization plate (Sabrina)
6. 09:41 AM - Re: Re: Dutch XL crash findings ()
7. 10:28 AM - Re: Re: Cowling winterization plate (Jim Belcher)
8. 10:37 AM - Re: Cowling winterization plate ()
9. 08:59 PM - Re: Dutch XL crash findings (Ron Lendon)
10. 09:45 PM - Re: Dutch XL crash findings (Sabrina)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
Only use lacquer thinner or acetone if the finish can take it...don't ask h
ow I know these things...
David L. Downey Harleysville-(SE) PA, USA
--- On Fri, 1/16/09, Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net> wrote:
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Cowling winterization plate
...If there is any problem removing the adhesive, just use a little lacque
r thinner on
a rag to wipe it off.
=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
To get duct tape adhesive off your paint... take a strip of the same type of duct
tape, take a knife and scrape off the adhesive, form that adhesive into a little
ball, use that ball on your painted surface, it picks up the old adhesive
like magic. My grandpa, God rest his soul, used to call it the "Hair of the
Dog that bit me." And yes, he liked Red Green a lot too, what would you expect
from someone born and raised in Green Bay.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225293#225293
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
On Friday 16 January 2009 21:30, Sabrina wrote:
>
> There is at least one oil sump blanket that is STC'd for the O-200A in
> flight. Use that and then pre-heat your oil with a plug in dip stick
> heater that is removed before flight.
>
This is one of the issues we face during the relative infancy of the whole LSA
thing. An STC applies to a type certificated configuration. Unless the O200A
is being maintained and annualed by an IA, its type certification probably
isn't being maintained.
If the O200A were installed on a type certificated aircraft, one could visit
the question as to whether the sump blanket were type certificated for the
engine installation on that specific aircraft. But it isn't, it's on an LSA,
where the STC does not apply (an LSA doesn't have a type certificate).
What I'm saying is that I don't think the FAA's rules have as yet fully
addressed this situation. I have a question(s) in to the FAA on this and
related certification/maintenance subjects. I'm hoping I get something
definitive enough to share.
Yes, that's probably a naive hope. :-)
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
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| Subject: | Duct tape removal |
There's a product called "GOO GONE" which works great. Test on paint before using.
Get it at Hobby shops like Michael's etc.
To get duct tape adhesive off your paint... take a strip of the same type of duct
tape, take a knife and scrape off the adhesive, form that adhesive into a little
ball, use that ball on your painted surface, it picks up the old adhesive
like magic. My grandpa, God rest his soul, used to call it the "Hair of the
Dog that bit me." And yes, he liked Red Green a lot too, what would you expect
from someone born and raised in Green Bay.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225293#225293
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
Jay has an S-LSA.
I can't imagine AMD approving any appliance for the engine that has not been STC'd
as to that engine. Just their changing out the FAA-PMA spark plugs for Auto
plugs required a lot of testing and analysis that Jay is not in the position
to do re: a non-STC'd oil sump blanket.
You are correct in pointing out that just because it is STC'd does not mean an
IA or AP can install it on the S-LSA, only AMD can approve such an installation.
Their exhaust configuration my not allow for such an installation.
It is different story for the airframe--they built it and could approve anything.
Question, can Jay put oil additives in an S-LSA that are not on the approved list
of lubricants from AMD?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225312#225312
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| Subject: | Re: Dutch XL crash findings |
The two part leading edge skins ought not to be a problem. Several
manufacturers do that. As long as the two skins meet (and overlap
appropriately) on a nose rib, and are properly riveted, the joint will
be at least as strong as the single piece. I agree with you on the
forward cant to the spar, and I'd certainly like the upper flange to be
on the FORWARD face of the spar. If you need to open up to do a repair,
or get to the tank, you either have to open up about 5 or 6 rivets
behind the spar, or figure out how to remove the rivet stubs rattling
around in there.
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: ashontz<mailto:ashontz@nbme.org>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:23 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Dutch XL crash findings
<ashontz@nbme.org<mailto:ashontz@nbme.org>>
Regardless of the cause, (most likely overstress from pilot error or
shodding building in caparison to how Zenith would specifiy or build it
themselves), one thing that is pretty consistent is HOW the wing breaks
when it does break. That is:
near the root, top of spar buckling forward, as would be suspected
considering the slight forward cant to the spar. Personally, I'd rather
see NO forward cant and I'm sure makes the wing slightly weaker than I'd
prefer, but not weaker than the properly build design limitation, but
whatever.
What that means is, if that's the weak link (not necessarily the
problem), but the weak link in the wing itself, maybe double up on
rivets in that area or use even better pulled rivets or possibly even
bucked rivets. I'd also stay away from the 15 gallon tanks keeping all
the ribs (rear and nose ribs) in line instead of offset around the tank
extension. I wouldn't mess with multiple piece leading edge skins (ie.
providing easier access to the fuel tank) and instead use just one
continuous 12' leading edge skin, and I wouldn't mess with the wing
locker. But that's just me.
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz<http://www.mykitlog.com/ashontz>
Read this topic online here:
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.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224969#224969>
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
On Saturday 17 January 2009 11:29, Sabrina wrote:
>
> Jay has an S-LSA.
>
> I can't imagine AMD approving any appliance for the engine that has not
> been STC'd as to that engine. Just their changing out the FAA-PMA spark
> plugs for Auto plugs required a lot of testing and analysis that Jay is not
> in the position to do re: a non-STC'd oil sump blanket.
>
> You are correct in pointing out that just because it is STC'd does not mean
> an IA or AP can install it on the S-LSA, only AMD can approve such an
> installation. Their exhaust configuration my not allow for such an
> installation.
>
> It is different story for the airframe--they built it and could approve
> anything.
That is my point exactly. Any change to the LSA must come from the
manufacturer, not from the FAA. We can't base our usage on approval from some
other airworthiness system. The manufacturer can probably use that as a
basis, if they so desire, but we can't.
> Question, can Jay put oil additives in an S-LSA that are not on the
> approved list of lubricants from AMD?
My gut feeling is no, he cannot legally do so. But these are the exact kinds
of questions I'm hoping to get the FAA to clarify.
It's very confusing to an IA/A&P. Although we sometimes curse the FAA for
giving us too much of the wrong kind of guidance, it's probably worse not to
have any guidance. I don't think we can really do much more in some cases
than say that there is no approved procedure by the relevant airworthiness
authority. In the case of Jay's additives, that would be the manufacturer of
the LSA, AMD. If AMD didn't specifically approve it, I'd say it's not
approved.
An example for certificated aircraft would be the use of a non-approved
lubricant. For example, I've run into some who thought it was a really great
idea to use Mouse Milk as an additive in certificated engines. I probably
don't need to say that Mouse Milk is not on the approved list for any general
aviation engine of which I am aware.
Our authority, such as it is, is derived from whoever controls the
airworthiness for a given aircraft. I suspect many of us don't feel
comfortable signing log book entries without an approved airworthiness basis
for whatever was just done.
Once a year, there are nationwide training sessions for IA's, which are used
as a basis for the continuance of our IA. One of the better ones is in the
Dallas area. It covers questions IAs are having in the field: areas of
conflicting guidance, and areas of no guidance. It also usually covers
signifcant general aviation crashes of the year, and what really happened.
I submitted my questions about LSA maintenance and certification issues to the
people who conduct that training session. I was told that they would try to
create a session to address these issues, and clarify the FAA position.
Assuming that happens, I'm going to request permission to make the LSA part
of the presentation available to this list.
And, if you are in the Dallas area, the seminar is open to all (but with a
$100+ fee). I believe it's on Feb 28, this year. You can get details on it at
ASOD.com. I've found that often the information is of broader interest to
those maintaining their own aircraft than just IAs.
But a word of caution: it starts at 0730 and ends around 1700. It's pretty
cram-packed. The donuts are good, though!
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling winterization plate |
Right on, Paul---I used rivnuts for the forward upper skin, and, 78
rivnuts leter, found that almost 1/4th of them spun. There;s a little
protrusion on each one that allegedly digs into the side of the hole and
is supposed to hold it. It don't. 78 nut plates later, a guy suggested
dipping each rivnut in epoxy or Proseal to keep them from spinning. Ah,
yes, the sequence of life:
1. You have a problem.
2. You come up with a solution.
3. It's the wrong solution.
4. You correct the solution.
5. Some guy comes along with an easier solution.
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz<mailto:psm@att.net>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Cowling winterization plate
<psm@att.net<mailto:psm@att.net>>
Hi Jay,
First, I would stay away from rivnuts. They have a horrible
reputation for spinning in their holes so you can't unfasten the
screws later on. If you feel you must use threaded fasteners, then
you should learn about nut-plates or just use bolts and nuts.
You might do a lot better to use ordinary pulled rivets. I suggest
you practice a little at installing them and drilling them out when
you want them to be gone. To be consistent with the construction of
the plane you should use Avex rivets (get a fellow Zenith builder to
donate a handful of them - we all have lots of extras). For
something like these air baffles you would probably be ok with
hardware store rivets. Perhaps 1/8" aluminum short or medium length.
You might start with .025 or .016 6061-T6 sheet metal and drill first
with #40 pilot drill and then line-drill with #30 for the 1/8"
rivets. (Line drilling is when you drill through both connecting
sheets at the same time. This gets the holes perfectly lined up.)
I'd suggest leaving the firewall alone and using the skin behind the
firewall for your new baffle attachment.
Good luck,
Paul
XL getting close
Good luck,
Paul
At 05:39 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote:
<jmaynard@conmicro.com<mailto:jmaynard@conmicro.com>>
>
>I need to do something to make my O-200 happier in the winter. I
haven't
>seen oil temperatures above 140 F since it got cold around here.
that's
>making me nervous about not boiling the condensation out of the oil.
>
>The O-200, at least in the AMD Zodiac, does not have an oil cooler to
cover
>up. That means I need to restrict airflow through the cowling. I've
spoken
>to an owner in Crookston, Minnesota, and he recommended that I first
make a
>plate to cover the air exit from the bottom of the cowling, and then
add
>plates at the inlet only if that doesn't do enough. I've got no
problems
>with that plan in general. The question I have, however, is simple:
How do I
>attach the plate?
>
>The forward end would need to attach somewhere inside the lower cowl,
>forward of the opening. That's easily enough done: holes in the cowl
itself,
>and rivnuts in the plate. The fun comes in attaching the rear of the
plate
>to the firewall. Suggestions? More rivnuts at the bottom of the
firewall
>itself, or are there better ideas?
>--
>Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI
http://www.conmicro.com<http://www.conmicro.com/>
>http://jmaynard.livejournal.com
http://www.tronguy.net<http://www.tronguy.net/>
>Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
>AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC
http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml<http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
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| Subject: | Re: Dutch XL crash findings |
Sabrina,
Are those your gussets on the outside of the skin? I read the print that the gussets
were inside the skin. They are represented by a hidden line and that usually
indicates behind the outer material.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
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| Subject: | Re: Dutch XL crash findings |
Good point Ron...
see attached...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225430#225430
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gussetsv2_466.jpg
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