Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:54 AM - XL Canopy covers (chris Sinfield)
2. 04:22 AM - Aileron pushrods (K Dilks)
3. 04:33 AM - Re: XL Canopy covers (ZodieRocket)
4. 06:37 AM - Re: W&B 601XL (Gig Giacona)
5. 07:22 AM - Re: Aileron pushrods (MikeinPE)
6. 07:30 AM - Re: W&B 601XL (PatrickW)
7. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: W&B 601X (Carlos Sa)
8. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: CZAW Spar Webs (David Johnson)
9. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: Aileron pushrods (Bill Pagan)
10. 09:01 AM - Re: Aileron pushrods (Gig Giacona)
11. 09:17 AM - Re: CZAW Spar Webs (Sabrina)
12. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: Aileron pushrods (Al Etherington)
13. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: Aileron pushrods (Bill Pagan)
14. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: Posting on 650 list for plans builders. (Gary Gower)
15. 01:18 PM - Re: CZAW Spar Webs (Sabrina)
16. 02:09 PM - Re: W&B 601X (PatrickW)
17. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: UK grounding to be lifted soon? (Gary Gower)
18. 05:36 PM - Re: Posting on 650 list for plans builders (leinad)
19. 06:05 PM - Re: UK grounding to be lifted soon ? (leinad)
20. 10:38 PM - Chris Heintz's Robin (Joe)
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| Subject: | XL Canopy covers |
hi
Can someone confirm that the old side opening HD canopy is the same size as the
FWD opening XL canopy please. I have the option of buying a cover from an older
HD and I have not finished my XL canopy yet to try it out to see if it fits.
Thanks
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227304#227304
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| Subject: | Aileron pushrods |
After seeing this mod on this list I wonder why on earth do they use cables as
standard. I cannot think of one reason not to go for this mod, much less maintenance,
simple etc etc.
What are others thoughts ......Im building my first wing now and this got me thinking.
Kev
--------
Austria .............
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227309#227309
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| Subject: | XL Canopy covers |
If the canopy was made prior to the 601XL's release then the canopy is a
different length. However, I did install the older style to my XL and it
worked just fine, installation takes considerably longer and the older
canopy will be on and off a lot more for fitting it to the fuselage, as
you cannot go by the photo manual and measurements.
Now It hangs on a wall as I have installed the 650 canopy to the plane
and I will say that the extra headroom and length are well worth the
hassle of doing the conversion.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac CH650 C-GOXL, CH701 Rotax 912,
STOL CH750 Just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris
Sinfield
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 4:48 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: XL Canopy covers
<chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
hi
Can someone confirm that the old side opening HD canopy is the same size
as the FWD opening XL canopy please. I have the option of buying a cover
from an older HD and I have not finished my XL canopy yet to try it out
to see if it fits.
Thanks
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227304#227304
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alex_001 wrote:
> Gig
>
> have a look here this was with a BRS in the top right front
I've seen that Alex and the only thing I can say is that must have been a smaller
BRS than the ones I've seen. When I say smaller I mean smaller than the 1350
which is the one that should be used in a 1320 lbs 601XL.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227324#227324
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron pushrods |
I am only starting to build & this option looks like the ideal answer by the time
I get to building my wings :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227332#227332
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Gig Giacona wrote:
> the 1350 which is the one that should be used in a 1320 lbs 601XL.
I'm installing a BRS-1350 in my XL, and am thinking that placement between the
instrument panel and the firewall is the best location. It is a tight fit, and
I think the European XL's do utilize a smaller BRS.
Here are the pictures of what I'm considering at this point: http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.Hoyt/BRS#
I am going with the 650 canopy, and a simple "day VFR" panel. Placement of the
BRS in the usual position in the baggage area is not an option as this area is
covered with the rear canopy bubble in the 650, as opposed to aluminum skin
(with frangible cover) in the XL (although I did consider the possibility of an
installation that would fire the BRS down through the bottom of the fuselage).
Placement of the BRS further aft, behind the baggage compartment bulkhead would
put it 8 feet aft of the firewall, and less than 4 feet ahead of the horizontal
stablizer. CG is the concern there, although granted you could probably fill
the nose gear strut with lead shot for nose ballast, or build an extended motor
mount. My thinking at this point is to keep it as simple as I can and fine-tune
my airplane's CG by placement of the battery aft, while still allowing
for the usage of the baggage compartment for baggage.
I have not seen a 650 (AMD or Zenith) with a front mounted BRS yet, but would welcome
pictures.
- Pat
--------
Patrick
601XL/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227333#227333
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Pat, what happens to the canopy when the BRS is fired? Isn't the canopy on
top of it?
Carlos
2009/1/28 PatrickW <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Gig Giacona wrote:
> > the 1350 which is the one that should be used in a 1320 lbs 601XL.
>
>
> I'm installing a BRS-1350 in my XL, and am thinking that placement between
> the instrument panel and the firewall is the best location. It is a tight
> fit, and I think the European XL's do utilize a smaller BRS.
>
> Here are the pictures of what I'm considering at this point:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.Hoyt/BRS#
> ....
> - Pat
>
> --------
> Patrick
> 601XL/Corvair
> N63PZ (reserved)
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| Subject: | Re: CZAW Spar Webs |
Sabrina,
I have scanned in the spar web drawings from my CZAW set. The drawing set
includes the 'standard' set, together with additional sheets showing the
CZAW changes. The relevant sheets are labelled 6-W-4 and 6-W-4CZ
I think you can see that the CZAW webs use 80 & 100 degrees, compared with
the original values of 78 & 102
I hope this answers (at least 1 of) your questions!
Dave Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris@msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 3:44 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Posting on 650 list for plans builders
>
> Ron, Thanks. (The outboard stiffeners are for dual sticks, but now
> appear to provide support for loose wing flying--I would like to know how
> many times the wings have been removed from each XL that has crashed--LAA
> guys, if you know as to the ones you investigated please advise.)
>
> How many builders out there tied their main spar attach uprights to their
> main longerons with gussets similar to the way the gear uprights are
> configured, giving the center spar additional torsional rigitiy that the
> LAA now desires?
>
> Anyone kit building a 650: Are your center spar webs bent to the new
> 80/100 angles? Do you see any signs of additional tooling marks on the
> lower spar webs as opposed to the tops? (Indicating that a 601XL center
> spar was reconfigured into a 650.)
>
> Anyone kit building a CZAW: Are your center spar web lower angles bent to
> 78/102 or 80/100? Are they sourced from the US, Canada, Colombia, Czech
> Republic?
>
> Any CZAW buider: can you post the plans page showing the center spar webs
> and the 78/102 or 80/100 interior lower angles along with the lower right
> corner showing CZAW or CH or ?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227281#227281
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron pushrods |
anybody know a source for the aileron pushrod ends?- Don't seem to be abl
e to find them at Spruce, Wicks or in the Van's catalog.- I know they are
the ones used on the RV's as they are the same as on my RV-8 but I don't s
ee them in the catalog.-
Bill Pagan
EAA Tech Counselor #4395
601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
--- On Wed, 1/28/09, MikeinPE <mike@rent-smart.co.za> wrote:
From: MikeinPE <mike@rent-smart.co.za>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Aileron pushrods
I am only starting to build & this option looks like the ideal answer by th
e time I get to building my wings :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227332#227332
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron pushrods |
According to Bill's info...
>From Van's
(VA-111 Threaded Rod Ends & M 361 M Rod End Bearing)
pdn8r(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> anybody know a source for the aileron pushrod ends? Don't seem to be able to
find them at Spruce, Wicks or in the Van's catalog. I know they are the ones
used on the RV's as they are the same as on my RV-8 but I don't see them in the
catalog.
>
> Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395
> 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
>
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227350#227350
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| Subject: | Re: CZAW Spar Webs |
Dave,
It answers so many questions, thank you so much.
Much of the reason I am posting these questions is to point out to the FAA and
NTSB that crashes here in the US of what appear to be CH 601XLs are actually EU
made/EU re-designed craft that may or may not have been static load tested as
configured. CZAW aircraft have been static tested, but the photos appear to
be of CH601XL design, not of the 80/100 design you have posted.
I am told that the center spar of the Polk City incident aircraft was made from
Corus aluminum, sourced in the EU. It appears that the aircraft had the low
trailing edge CZAW design made per CZAW and not CH plans.
Repeatedly, EU builders have told us that their aircraft kits are identical to
ours and sourced from Canada or the US, but it appears that many are not.
The LAA appears to have decided that all "XL/650" center spars need to be reinforced
rather than tested.
It appears unfair to lump CH601XLs built to LSA standards into the CZAW and 650
category which utilize this new spar set.
So too, the LAA makes no differentiation between PH and FH aileron, no differentiations
between center spars which already have 4 reinforcing uprights and those
with 2 or none.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227353#227353
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron pushrods |
Bill Pagan wrote:
> anybody know a source for the aileron pushrod ends? Don't seem to be
> able to find them at Spruce, Wicks or in the Van's catalog. I know
> they are the ones used on the RV's as they are the same as on my RV-8
> but I don't see them in the catalog.
>
> Bill Pagan
> EAA Tech Counselor #4395
> 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 1/28/09, MikeinPE /<mike@rent-smart.co.za>/* wrote:
>
Bill and All:
They are in the "LIST" at Van's, not the accessory pages. The rod end
should be P/N 3614M.
VA-111 $8.10
3614M $18.26
Al Etherington
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron pushrods |
OK, for those interesting the parts for the aileron rods (rod ends and rod
end bearings) are on Van's website in "the list" portion of the on-line sto
re.- They are not in the accessories catalog.
Bill Pagan
EAA Tech Counselor #4395
601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Aileron pushrods
According to Bill's info...
>From Van's
(VA-111 Threaded Rod Ends & M 361 M Rod End Bearing)
pdn8r(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> anybody know a source for the aileron pushrod ends?- Don't seem to be a
ble to find them at Spruce, Wicks or in the Van's catalog.- I know they a
re the ones used on the RV's as they are the same as on my RV-8 but I don't
see them in the catalog.-
>
> Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395
> 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
>
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227350#227350
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: Posting on 650 list for plans builders. |
Hello Gig,
-
You are right the correct "list" is important.
-
In my own opinion,- given some personal experience I have in homebuilding
,- The share of building information is VERY important for anyone, both N
ewbie and "Experienced" builder, First note-that we all have to admit, th
at we keep learning all our lives.
-
I think that there is an important "line" here:-
BEFORE Internet- and AFTER internet (email lists in this case).-
-
I remember (prior Internet times)- that when I had a serious concern abou
t some detail in- the plans (or when choosing an airplane to build).
First I need to find out Where to look for the information (through magazin
es-and articles mostly)- then send a letter to the-magazine editor fo
r the data of the plane and designer, wait weeks-for his answer, then wri
te to the designer, builder, "kit factory" (some of this " kit factories"
-was the own designer's -garage), then wait for an answer (if they feel
like writing overseas) for another month ot more.--
-
In short, -for some "to be" builders, could-take several months to gath
er just the basic info for starting,-only to be kind of convinced, -tha
t this was the plane of our dreams...
-
Now with this modern internet time, a first time builder,-Newbie with no
-previous background in aviation,- all he needs to -do is to "google"
some information (truth or false, we find plenty of both in internet)- a
nd- subscribe to the specific airplane list, and Bingo!-
-In a few weeks, he is an =B7"Expert" that can even advice "Newbies"- f
rom the use (or not) of Scothbrite, up to the way-to modify the airplane
to prevent flutter :-) :-)-
-
About "flying advice"- and flight simulators...- Thats another story-
:-)- :-)
-
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Newby builder all my life.
Do not archive.
-
--- On Tue, 1/27/09, Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Posting on 650 list for plans builders
<wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Gary,
The big problem with the multiple lists is for the newbies that find it on
the
web forum instead of via the e-mail list. They come find a 650 list with ou
t
much information and never return.
I know I couldn't have built my plane without this list or one like it.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227152#227152
=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: CZAW Spar Webs |
Dave, Thank you.
It appears that the CZAW design not only changes the spar web set to 80/100, it
substitutes shorter AN-470-AD-5 rivets in 32 positions. They are only 1/32 shorter,
but why?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227393#227393
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/80_100_an_470_ad_5_528.jpg
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carlossa52(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Pat, what happens to the canopy when the BRS is fired? Isn't the canopy on top
of it?
The rear portion of the canopy would be in the way if the BRS were mounted in the
baggage area (assuming usage of the 650 canopy), which is one reason why I
want to put my BRS up front. The bracket that the rocket tube is mounted on is
bolted to the cabin side of the firewall, and the rocket fires up through a
frangible cover on the center-front portion of the forward top skin (ahead of
the front of the canopy).
You can get an idea of the available space between the firewall and the leading edge of the 650 canopy by looking at this photo: http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/608/650ata2.jpg
I don't know what would happen to the canopy if the BRS were fired in this front-mounted
scenario. My main concern would be that the parachute not get "fouled"
on it.
Again, this is what I'm considering doing on my own airplane. I have not completed
the install, so it remains unproven at this time. I am interested in seeing
what other XL/650 builders have done in this regard, and building upon the
proven success of others.
- Pat
--------
Patrick
601XL/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227400#227400
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| Subject: | Re: UK grounding to be lifted soon? |
Very easy:- Need to be a burocrat...- :-)- :-)- :-)-
-
Do not archive. PLEASE!
--- On Tue, 1/27/09, Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
... I have a problem with this. I have yet to see a single bit of evidence
that
flutter caused an accident.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: Posting on 650 list for plans builders |
Sabrina,
Yes, all like you describe. The second set of stiffeners was not on my drawings
but I added them when I went with the dual control sticks.
Dan
Sabrina wrote:
> Dan,
>
> re: pre-LSA 601XL plans
>
> Does your center spar have 4 forward spar web stiffeners made of 6061-T6 3/4
x 3/4 x .093 angle uprights placed 35 and 288mm from the centerline? The outboard
uprights are the dual stick option.
>
> Are the center spar web lower inside angles set at 78 and 102 degrees? (6-W-4)
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227426#227426
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| Subject: | Re: UK grounding to be lifted soon ? |
Gig,
I'd like to see the data that they made these judgements from too, but from what
we all know I think they're reasonable.
1. You've got something statistically significant happening with XL crashes.
2. Even the EAA recommends control surface balancing because unbalanced control
surfaces are PRONE to flutter.
3. Reports have been made by members of this list of experiencing flutter. I'd
call that evidence.
4. There is is also some evidence (not everyone is convinced) that some of these
incedences happened in straight and level flight.
5. Zenith proactively put out warnings about maintaining control cable tension.
(I think they said to prevent flutter, not sure on this point)
None of this is proof that any of the failures were due to flutter, but some might
conclude it's enough evidence so that some precautions should be made against
that as a possible culprit.
I hope Zenith has some recommendations out soon,as I'm about to begin assembling
wings.
Dan
Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> > The reason for the required aileron counter-weights is because the LAA does
not accept maintaining cable tensions within specifications as adequate protection
against a potential risk of flutter.
>
>
> I have a problem with this. I have yet to see a single bit of evidence that flutter
caused an accident.
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227429#227429
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| Subject: | Chris Heintz's Robin |
An EAA buddy of mine, we met working at the Arlington
flyin 5 years ago, spent December in New Zealand.
He was fortunate enough to fly in a number of airplanes.
He took aerobatic lessons in a Robin. Chris Heintz
designed the Robin HR200 in the 70's.
http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%20performance/Robin/HR200.htm
As my friend remarked, you can see the 601 in the Robin.
I posted the picture he took,
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/robin_small.jpg
and a high res one if you want details:
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/robin.jpg
Joe E @ BFI
N633Z
CH601XL, 556 hours + climbing
Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x51 wood prop
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/
P.S. pre LSA, built in 2003 (May - December) in 1077.5 hours
715 pounds empty, night vfr
It was displayed at the Arlington Airshow in 2004 at the
main EAA tent as an example of a plane that could meet
the proposed LSA reg - at Zenair's request.
[do not archive]
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