Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:48 AM - Re: W&B 601X (PatrickW)
2. 05:13 AM - Re: Chris Heintz's Robin (PatrickW)
3. 05:30 AM - 601XL project for sale with WW Corvair (JURU8878)
4. 06:30 AM - Re: UK grounding to be lifted soon ? (Gig Giacona)
5. 06:30 AM - Sport cruiser wing (K Dilks)
6. 06:38 AM - Re: W&B 601X (Gig Giacona)
7. 07:28 AM - Re: 601XL project for sale with WW Corvair (JURU8878)
8. 07:48 AM - Re: W&B 601X (PatrickW)
9. 08:32 AM - Re: Sport cruiser wing (Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet))
10. 08:39 AM - Re: Sport cruiser wing [OFF LINE RESPONSE] (Terry Phillips)
11. 09:36 AM - Re: Sport cruiser wing [OFF LINE RESPONSE] (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
12. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: Chris Heintz's Robin (David Downey)
13. 10:27 AM - test (Bryan Martin)
14. 10:30 AM - Re: Sport cruiser wing. (Gary Gower)
15. 10:41 AM - Re: Chris Heintz's Robin (PatrickW)
16. 12:19 PM - engine mount (LarryMcFarland)
17. 04:57 PM - Broken Baffle Bracket (Frank Derfler)
18. 07:10 PM - Re: Broken Baffle Bracket (Jay Maynard)
Message 1
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alex_001 wrote:
> the forward installation of the BRS for the 601xl
Excellent. Real world photo examples.
Thank you for sharing, Alex. :)
- Pat
--------
Patrick
601XL/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227467#227467
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| Subject: | Re: Chris Heintz's Robin |
I really like that sliding canopy.
Wonder why a sliding canopy isn't an option on the 650...?
I bet Zenith would sell more 650's if a slider was an option....
- Pat
--------
Patrick
601XL/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227471#227471
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| Subject: | 601XL project for sale with WW Corvair |
My father recently passed away and the 601XL project that we were building for
him is for sale. We have the the 2700cc Corvair half assembled with many WW parts.
The rudder, elevator, horizontal stab, main spars, are complete. Fuselage
is started. we have the dual stick option and were planning a tail dragger
but we're not far enough along with the fuse so it can go back to the nose dragger
version. Selling all of it. would like to get 15k for everything, all
reasonable offers will be entertained. I would like the engine and plane to
go together but might consider parting the two.
Feel free to contact me at jlr262@yahoo.com or at the phone numbers listed below
if you have any questions. Plane pieces are in Southern MD and engine is currently
in central PA, but is in the process of getting to southern MD.
Thanks....Jud Rupert
301-994-0630 (home)
301-904-8105 (cell)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227474#227474
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| Subject: | Re: UK grounding to be lifted soon ? |
Dan,
I don't disagree with anything you wrote. BUT, the single government report that
has had any actual data specifically ruled out flutter as the cause for the
accident.
If there is a problem with the 601XL finding the cause is being hampered by organizations
harping on the one thing that has been shown NOT to be the cause in
the one accident that has been at least somewhat investigated.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227484#227484
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| Subject: | Sport cruiser wing |
Does anyone know if the ailerons on the sport cruiser are balance ? And if they
are cable operated?
IF the answers are no and yes then I consider it a straight rip off of the 601
wing.
Look at the picture in this link and see what you think. spare angle , rear spar
look identical.
http://www.spriteaviation.co.uk/howcome.html?Button1.x=75&Button1.y=6
If link does not work google sprite aviation services.
My point is why then did this pass LAA test and the XL needs this work?
Kev
--------
Austria .............
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227483#227483
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CZAW used the 1050 which is smaller than the 1350 and I assume lighter. Will the
1350 fit there?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227485#227485
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL project for sale with WW Corvair |
please use the jlr262@yahoo.com email account, the US Navy blocks most emails that
look like spam so the judson.rupert@navy.mil account will not work. I've
received two emails from someone that I cannot see, so please send to the yahoo
account.
v/r,
Jud
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227497#227497
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Gig Giacona wrote:
> Will the 1350 fit there?
I posted a link earlier in this thread to pictures of what I'm considering doing
regarding my BRS 1350 on my XL.
- Pat
--------
Patrick
601XL/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227500#227500
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| Subject: | Re: Sport cruiser wing |
Ailerons are rod operated in the SC.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "K Dilks" <kevin.dilks@liwest.at>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 3:23 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Sport cruiser wing
>
> Does anyone know if the ailerons on the sport cruiser are balance ? And if
> they are cable operated?
> IF the answers are no and yes then I consider it a straight rip off of the
> 601 wing.
> Look at the picture in this link and see what you think. spare angle ,
> rear spar look identical.
> http://www.spriteaviation.co.uk/howcome.html?Button1.x=75&Button1.y=6
> If link does not work google sprite aviation services.
> My point is why then did this pass LAA test and the XL needs this work?
>
> Kev
>
> --------
> Austria .............
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227483#227483
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Sport cruiser wing [OFF LINE RESPONSE] |
Kev
I have seen drawings and photos of the SC wing. Yes, clearly it is a
derivative of the 601XL wing. No question of that. However, I'm unaware of
any patent on the 601XL wing design, so there would be no patent
infringement. Plus, I'm sure that if there was any violation of an
intellectual property agreement between Zenair and CZAW, then Zenair
lawyers would have them in the courts. I haven't heard of any sign of that.
While I have never seen detailed construction drawings of the SC wing,
IMHO, CZAW produced the design that Zenair should have copied for the 650.
The SC wing addresses several shortcomings in the 601XL wing. The spar root
is significantly stronger and the center spar is reinforced. The ailerons
are not balanced and (I believe) are cable operated. However the flap and
aileron designs are significantly different from the Zenair
design--particularly the hinging. I think the ailerons should be balanced.
But, if and when there are significant SC numbers flying, we'll see if the
wings start falling off. That is the ultimate test.
The biggest differences between the SC and the CH601XL designs, again,
IMHO, is that the CH601XL was designed to allow scratch building from
plans. The SC would require machined aluminum parts. But that's not all
bad. A friend is building a Waiex. He told me that the Waiex can be
completely scratch built--except for the wing spar caps. If you are going
to use their plans, you must buy their spar caps, and they are pretty
complex pieces. The Waiex spar caps are about what the 601XL needs (see
attached photo). Instead we have a spar cap with doubler composed of 0.25 x
1.5" 6061-T6 bar. Very little chordwise stiffness. Even the HD and HDS at
least had an extruded angle for the spar cap. Oh well, we pays our money
and we takes our chances.
Perhaps when you have a holiday you could take a drive over to Brno and
take a CZAW plant tour. Take your camera and take lots of photos. CZAW has
some pretty sharp folks with some good ideas, and the Zenair community
could benefit from what you learn.
I'd appreciate if you do not quote this message on the lists. Thanks.
Regards, Terry
At 06:23 AM 1/29/2009 -0800, you wrote:
>Does anyone know if the ailerons on the sport cruiser are balance ? And if
>they are cable operated?
> IF the answers are no and yes then I consider it a straight rip off of
> the 601 wing.
> Look at the picture in this link and see what you think. spare angle ,
> rear spar look identical.
>http://www.spriteaviation.co.uk/howcome.html?Button1.x=75&Button1.y=6
> If link does not work google sprite aviation services.
> My point is why then did this pass LAA test and the XL needs this work?
>
>Kev
>
>--------
>Austria .............
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Sport cruiser wing [OFF LINE RESPONSE] |
(I'd appreciate if you do not quote this message on the lists. Thanks.)
It's a little late for that but it has happened to us all I think.
Kev
I have seen drawings and photos of the SC wing. Yes, clearly it is a
derivative of the 601XL wing. No question of that. However, I'm unaware of
any patent on the 601XL wing design, so there would be no patent
infringement. Plus, I'm sure that if there was any violation of an
intellectual property agreement between Zenair and CZAW, then Zenair
lawyers would have them in the courts. I haven't heard of any sign of that.
While I have never seen detailed construction drawings of the SC wing,
IMHO, CZAW produced the design that Zenair should have copied for the 650.
The SC wing addresses several shortcomings in the 601XL wing. The spar root
is significantly stronger and the center spar is reinforced. The ailerons
are not balanced and (I believe) are cable operated. However the flap and
aileron designs are significantly different from the Zenair
design--particularly the hinging. I think the ailerons should be balanced.
But, if and when there are significant SC numbers flying, we'll see if the
wings start falling off. That is the ultimate test.
The biggest differences between the SC and the CH601XL designs, again,
IMHO, is that the CH601XL was designed to allow scratch building from
plans. The SC would require machined aluminum parts. But that's not all
bad. A friend is building a Waiex. He told me that the Waiex can be
completely scratch built--except for the wing spar caps. If you are going
to use their plans, you must buy their spar caps, and they are pretty
complex pieces. The Waiex spar caps are about what the 601XL needs (see
attached photo). Instead we have a spar cap with doubler composed of 0.25 x
1.5" 6061-T6 bar. Very little chordwise stiffness. Even the HD and HDS at
least had an extruded angle for the spar cap. Oh well, we pays our money
and we takes our chances.
Perhaps when you have a holiday you could take a drive over to Brno and
take a CZAW plant tour. Take your camera and take lots of photos. CZAW has
some pretty sharp folks with some good ideas, and the Zenair community
could benefit from what you learn.
I'd appreciate if you do not quote this message on the lists. Thanks.
Regards, Terry
At 06:23 AM 1/29/2009 -0800, you wrote:
>Does anyone know if the ailerons on the sport cruiser are balance ? And if
>they are cable operated?
> IF the answers are no and yes then I consider it a straight rip off of
> the 601 wing.
> Look at the picture in this link and see what you think. spare angle ,
> rear spar look identical.
>http://www.spriteaviation.co.uk/howcome.html?Button1.x=75&Button1.y=6
> If link does not work google sprite aviation services.
> My point is why then did this pass LAA test and the XL needs this work?
>
>Kev
>
>--------
>Austria .............
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
cemailfooterNO62)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Chris Heintz's Robin |
the entire XL concept makes it very difficult to do a slider. The fuselage
is not even close to parallel in the zone where the tracks would be located
. While that is not a killer in and of itself, a successful installation wo
uld require a canopy/frame that is flexible enough to change width in one d
irection at the forward bow while simultaneously changing width in the oppo
site direction at the aft bow.
Other mechanisms are out there but the structure would also have to be modo
fied to maintain integrity due to the "kick" in the upper longerons in part
icular if the cabin sides were made parallel.
David L. Downey Harleysville-(SE) PA, USA
--- On Thu, 1/29/09, PatrickW <pwhoyt@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: PatrickW <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Chris Heintz's Robin
<pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
I really like that sliding canopy.
Wonder why a sliding canopy isn't an option on the 650...?
I bet Zenith would sell more 650's if a slider was an option....
- Pat
--------
Patrick
601XL/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227471#227471
=0A=0A=0A
Message 13
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do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Sport cruiser wing. |
Hello Kev,
-
Yes, you got a point.-- Good Designers, like Mr Heintz, Rutan, etc. hav
e lots of Followers, no one in aviation (even the Wright Bros) invented avi
ation from cero.-
-
All improvements are new ideas.-- So if they consider that is needed to
balance the 601XL alerions, they should consider all- the other airplane
s with same wings.
-
IF (I am not saying it did)- this caused a problem in a few of all the 60
1XL built,- then- how many Sport Cruisers or any other airplane need to
be flown to have an accident?
-
I am now starting the wings,- need to be sure what mods to install.- Wi
ll use the hingless option.
-
By the way, I think we pay attention to Sabrina comments,- She is very br
ight and I thing she is going in the correct path.- Hope we all get a goo
d solution soon.
-
Saludos
Gary- Gower
--- On Thu, 1/29/09, K Dilks <kevin.dilks@liwest.at> wrote:
From: K Dilks <kevin.dilks@liwest.at>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Sport cruiser wing
<kevin.dilks@liwest.at>
Does anyone know if the ailerons on the sport cruiser are balance ? And if
they
are cable operated?
IF the answers are no and yes then I consider it a straight rip off of the
601
wing.
Look at the picture in this link and see what you think. spare angle , rea
r
spar look identical.
http://www.spriteaviation.co.uk/howcome.html?Button1.x=75&Button1.y=6
If link does not work google sprite aviation services.
My point is why then did this pass LAA test and the XL needs this work?
Kev
--------
Austria .............
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227483#227483
=0A=0A=0A
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Chris Heintz's Robin |
planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote:
> the entire XL concept makes it very difficult to do a slider.
Hence my question re: 650.
:)
Agree it would be difficult on an XL.
- Pat
--------
Patrick
601XL/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227537#227537
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Hi guys,
Ive just completed a 601 engine mount for a Subaru with a Ross
re-drive, crank and prop at coaxial center, left hand turning propeller
with appropriate 3-degree offset.
Id like to know if anyone is in need of another more before I convert
the mount jig back to the original Stratus belted, vertically-displaced
belt re-drive, and 3-degree offset for a right-hand propeller,
Thanks,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
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| Subject: | Broken Baffle Bracket |
In my pre-flight yesterday I discovered a broken baffle bracket on my
AMD-made 601XL with 200 hours on the tac. This is a metal bracket in the
right front of the O-200 that literally wraps around one of the hoses going
to the fuel pump. The bracket cracked in the horizontal plane... as if it
had been vibrating horizontally. The bracket's condition was not
immediately visible to the eye. This is (yet) another case where my
original CFI's strong advice to "touch everything" paid off. I posted some
photos on the Zenith Aircraft site at this URL
http://tinyurl.com/dcmtz6
-- Frank Derfler
N183AM in the Florida Keys
--
Twitter! Follow me at http://Twitter.com/Fderfler
See my new Novel, "A Glint in Time" at http://GreatGuyBooks.com.
See my discussion of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or
(blatantly) immoral at http://mostlyflying.com
Anybody who READS (anybody out there?) See www.greatguybooks.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Broken Baffle Bracket |
On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 07:47:40PM -0500, Frank Derfler wrote:
> In my pre-flight yesterday I discovered a broken baffle bracket on my
> AMD-made 601XL with 200 hours on the tac.
I've had that baffle crack twice now, but both times it's originated at the
other end (the end attached to the baffle next to the cylinder head). The
first time, my A&P made a new baffle out of .025 aluminum, and it cracked
again the same way; this time, he used .032 aluminum. We're hoping that
fixes the problem.
The baffle actually attaches to the crankcase breather hose elbow, not the
fuel pump or fuel line.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
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