---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/29/09: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:48 AM - Re: W&B 601X (PatrickW) 2. 05:13 AM - Re: Chris Heintz's Robin (PatrickW) 3. 05:30 AM - 601XL project for sale with WW Corvair (JURU8878) 4. 06:30 AM - Re: UK grounding to be lifted soon ? (Gig Giacona) 5. 06:30 AM - Sport cruiser wing (K Dilks) 6. 06:38 AM - Re: W&B 601X (Gig Giacona) 7. 07:28 AM - Re: 601XL project for sale with WW Corvair (JURU8878) 8. 07:48 AM - Re: W&B 601X (PatrickW) 9. 08:32 AM - Re: Sport cruiser wing (Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet)) 10. 08:39 AM - Re: Sport cruiser wing [OFF LINE RESPONSE] (Terry Phillips) 11. 09:36 AM - Re: Sport cruiser wing [OFF LINE RESPONSE] (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 12. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: Chris Heintz's Robin (David Downey) 13. 10:27 AM - test (Bryan Martin) 14. 10:30 AM - Re: Sport cruiser wing. (Gary Gower) 15. 10:41 AM - Re: Chris Heintz's Robin (PatrickW) 16. 12:19 PM - engine mount (LarryMcFarland) 17. 04:57 PM - Broken Baffle Bracket (Frank Derfler) 18. 07:10 PM - Re: Broken Baffle Bracket (Jay Maynard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: W&B 601X From: "PatrickW" alex_001 wrote: > the forward installation of the BRS for the 601xl Excellent. Real world photo examples. Thank you for sharing, Alex. :) - Pat -------- Patrick 601XL/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227467#227467 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:16 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Chris Heintz's Robin From: "PatrickW" I really like that sliding canopy. Wonder why a sliding canopy isn't an option on the 650...? I bet Zenith would sell more 650's if a slider was an option.... - Pat -------- Patrick 601XL/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227471#227471 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: 601XL project for sale with WW Corvair From: "JURU8878" My father recently passed away and the 601XL project that we were building for him is for sale. We have the the 2700cc Corvair half assembled with many WW parts. The rudder, elevator, horizontal stab, main spars, are complete. Fuselage is started. we have the dual stick option and were planning a tail dragger but we're not far enough along with the fuse so it can go back to the nose dragger version. Selling all of it. would like to get 15k for everything, all reasonable offers will be entertained. I would like the engine and plane to go together but might consider parting the two. Feel free to contact me at jlr262@yahoo.com or at the phone numbers listed below if you have any questions. Plane pieces are in Southern MD and engine is currently in central PA, but is in the process of getting to southern MD. Thanks....Jud Rupert 301-994-0630 (home) 301-904-8105 (cell) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227474#227474 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:31 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: UK grounding to be lifted soon ? From: "Gig Giacona" Dan, I don't disagree with anything you wrote. BUT, the single government report that has had any actual data specifically ruled out flutter as the cause for the accident. If there is a problem with the 601XL finding the cause is being hampered by organizations harping on the one thing that has been shown NOT to be the cause in the one accident that has been at least somewhat investigated. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227484#227484 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:37 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Sport cruiser wing From: "K Dilks" Does anyone know if the ailerons on the sport cruiser are balance ? And if they are cable operated? IF the answers are no and yes then I consider it a straight rip off of the 601 wing. Look at the picture in this link and see what you think. spare angle , rear spar look identical. http://www.spriteaviation.co.uk/howcome.html?Button1.x=75&Button1.y=6 If link does not work google sprite aviation services. My point is why then did this pass LAA test and the XL needs this work? Kev -------- Austria ............. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227483#227483 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:38 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: W&B 601X From: "Gig Giacona" CZAW used the 1050 which is smaller than the 1350 and I assume lighter. Will the 1350 fit there? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227485#227485 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: 601XL project for sale with WW Corvair From: "JURU8878" please use the jlr262@yahoo.com email account, the US Navy blocks most emails that look like spam so the judson.rupert@navy.mil account will not work. I've received two emails from someone that I cannot see, so please send to the yahoo account. v/r, Jud Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227497#227497 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:14 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: W&B 601X From: "PatrickW" Gig Giacona wrote: > Will the 1350 fit there? I posted a link earlier in this thread to pictures of what I'm considering doing regarding my BRS 1350 on my XL. - Pat -------- Patrick 601XL/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227500#227500 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:03 AM PST US From: "Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet)" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Sport cruiser wing Ailerons are rod operated in the SC. -------------------------------------------------- From: "K Dilks" Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 3:23 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Sport cruiser wing > > Does anyone know if the ailerons on the sport cruiser are balance ? And if > they are cable operated? > IF the answers are no and yes then I consider it a straight rip off of the > 601 wing. > Look at the picture in this link and see what you think. spare angle , > rear spar look identical. > http://www.spriteaviation.co.uk/howcome.html?Button1.x=75&Button1.y=6 > If link does not work google sprite aviation services. > My point is why then did this pass LAA test and the XL needs this work? > > Kev > > -------- > Austria ............. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227483#227483 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:36 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Sport cruiser wing [OFF LINE RESPONSE] Kev I have seen drawings and photos of the SC wing. Yes, clearly it is a derivative of the 601XL wing. No question of that. However, I'm unaware of any patent on the 601XL wing design, so there would be no patent infringement. Plus, I'm sure that if there was any violation of an intellectual property agreement between Zenair and CZAW, then Zenair lawyers would have them in the courts. I haven't heard of any sign of that. While I have never seen detailed construction drawings of the SC wing, IMHO, CZAW produced the design that Zenair should have copied for the 650. The SC wing addresses several shortcomings in the 601XL wing. The spar root is significantly stronger and the center spar is reinforced. The ailerons are not balanced and (I believe) are cable operated. However the flap and aileron designs are significantly different from the Zenair design--particularly the hinging. I think the ailerons should be balanced. But, if and when there are significant SC numbers flying, we'll see if the wings start falling off. That is the ultimate test. The biggest differences between the SC and the CH601XL designs, again, IMHO, is that the CH601XL was designed to allow scratch building from plans. The SC would require machined aluminum parts. But that's not all bad. A friend is building a Waiex. He told me that the Waiex can be completely scratch built--except for the wing spar caps. If you are going to use their plans, you must buy their spar caps, and they are pretty complex pieces. The Waiex spar caps are about what the 601XL needs (see attached photo). Instead we have a spar cap with doubler composed of 0.25 x 1.5" 6061-T6 bar. Very little chordwise stiffness. Even the HD and HDS at least had an extruded angle for the spar cap. Oh well, we pays our money and we takes our chances. Perhaps when you have a holiday you could take a drive over to Brno and take a CZAW plant tour. Take your camera and take lots of photos. CZAW has some pretty sharp folks with some good ideas, and the Zenair community could benefit from what you learn. I'd appreciate if you do not quote this message on the lists. Thanks. Regards, Terry At 06:23 AM 1/29/2009 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone know if the ailerons on the sport cruiser are balance ? And if >they are cable operated? > IF the answers are no and yes then I consider it a straight rip off of > the 601 wing. > Look at the picture in this link and see what you think. spare angle , > rear spar look identical. >http://www.spriteaviation.co.uk/howcome.html?Button1.x=75&Button1.y=6 > If link does not work google sprite aviation services. > My point is why then did this pass LAA test and the XL needs this work? > >Kev > >-------- >Austria ............. Terry Phillips ZBAGer ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:06 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Sport cruiser wing [OFF LINE RESPONSE] (I'd appreciate if you do not quote this message on the lists. Thanks.) It's a little late for that but it has happened to us all I think. Kev I have seen drawings and photos of the SC wing. Yes, clearly it is a derivative of the 601XL wing. No question of that. However, I'm unaware of any patent on the 601XL wing design, so there would be no patent infringement. Plus, I'm sure that if there was any violation of an intellectual property agreement between Zenair and CZAW, then Zenair lawyers would have them in the courts. I haven't heard of any sign of that. While I have never seen detailed construction drawings of the SC wing, IMHO, CZAW produced the design that Zenair should have copied for the 650. The SC wing addresses several shortcomings in the 601XL wing. The spar root is significantly stronger and the center spar is reinforced. The ailerons are not balanced and (I believe) are cable operated. However the flap and aileron designs are significantly different from the Zenair design--particularly the hinging. I think the ailerons should be balanced. But, if and when there are significant SC numbers flying, we'll see if the wings start falling off. That is the ultimate test. The biggest differences between the SC and the CH601XL designs, again, IMHO, is that the CH601XL was designed to allow scratch building from plans. The SC would require machined aluminum parts. But that's not all bad. A friend is building a Waiex. He told me that the Waiex can be completely scratch built--except for the wing spar caps. If you are going to use their plans, you must buy their spar caps, and they are pretty complex pieces. The Waiex spar caps are about what the 601XL needs (see attached photo). Instead we have a spar cap with doubler composed of 0.25 x 1.5" 6061-T6 bar. Very little chordwise stiffness. Even the HD and HDS at least had an extruded angle for the spar cap. Oh well, we pays our money and we takes our chances. Perhaps when you have a holiday you could take a drive over to Brno and take a CZAW plant tour. Take your camera and take lots of photos. CZAW has some pretty sharp folks with some good ideas, and the Zenair community could benefit from what you learn. I'd appreciate if you do not quote this message on the lists. Thanks. Regards, Terry At 06:23 AM 1/29/2009 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone know if the ailerons on the sport cruiser are balance ? And if >they are cable operated? > IF the answers are no and yes then I consider it a straight rip off of > the 601 wing. > Look at the picture in this link and see what you think. spare angle , > rear spar look identical. >http://www.spriteaviation.co.uk/howcome.html?Button1.x=75&Button1.y=6 > If link does not work google sprite aviation services. > My point is why then did this pass LAA test and the XL needs this work? > >Kev > >-------- >Austria ............. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:47 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Chris Heintz's Robin the entire XL concept makes it very difficult to do a slider. The fuselage is not even close to parallel in the zone where the tracks would be located . While that is not a killer in and of itself, a successful installation wo uld require a canopy/frame that is flexible enough to change width in one d irection at the forward bow while simultaneously changing width in the oppo site direction at the aft bow. Other mechanisms are out there but the structure would also have to be modo fied to maintain integrity due to the "kick" in the upper longerons in part icular if the cabin sides were made parallel. David L. Downey Harleysville-(SE) PA, USA --- On Thu, 1/29/09, PatrickW wrote: From: PatrickW Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Chris Heintz's Robin I really like that sliding canopy. Wonder why a sliding canopy isn't an option on the 650...? I bet Zenith would sell more 650's if a slider was an option.... - Pat -------- Patrick 601XL/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227471#227471 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:31 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Zenith601-List: test do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:49 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Sport cruiser wing. Hello Kev, - Yes, you got a point.-- Good Designers, like Mr Heintz, Rutan, etc. hav e lots of Followers, no one in aviation (even the Wright Bros) invented avi ation from cero.- - All improvements are new ideas.-- So if they consider that is needed to balance the 601XL alerions, they should consider all- the other airplane s with same wings. - IF (I am not saying it did)- this caused a problem in a few of all the 60 1XL built,- then- how many Sport Cruisers or any other airplane need to be flown to have an accident? - I am now starting the wings,- need to be sure what mods to install.- Wi ll use the hingless option. - By the way, I think we pay attention to Sabrina comments,- She is very br ight and I thing she is going in the correct path.- Hope we all get a goo d solution soon. - Saludos Gary- Gower --- On Thu, 1/29/09, K Dilks wrote: From: K Dilks Subject: Zenith601-List: Sport cruiser wing Does anyone know if the ailerons on the sport cruiser are balance ? And if they are cable operated? IF the answers are no and yes then I consider it a straight rip off of the 601 wing. Look at the picture in this link and see what you think. spare angle , rea r spar look identical. http://www.spriteaviation.co.uk/howcome.html?Button1.x=75&Button1.y=6 If link does not work google sprite aviation services. My point is why then did this pass LAA test and the XL needs this work? Kev -------- Austria ............. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227483#227483 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:21 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Chris Heintz's Robin From: "PatrickW" planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote: > the entire XL concept makes it very difficult to do a slider. Hence my question re: 650. :) Agree it would be difficult on an XL. - Pat -------- Patrick 601XL/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227537#227537 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:19:41 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Zenith601-List: engine mount Hi guys, Ive just completed a 601 engine mount for a Subaru with a Ross re-drive, crank and prop at coaxial center, left hand turning propeller with appropriate 3-degree offset. Id like to know if anyone is in need of another more before I convert the mount jig back to the original Stratus belted, vertically-displaced belt re-drive, and 3-degree offset for a right-hand propeller, Thanks, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:02 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Broken Baffle Bracket From: Frank Derfler In my pre-flight yesterday I discovered a broken baffle bracket on my AMD-made 601XL with 200 hours on the tac. This is a metal bracket in the right front of the O-200 that literally wraps around one of the hoses going to the fuel pump. The bracket cracked in the horizontal plane... as if it had been vibrating horizontally. The bracket's condition was not immediately visible to the eye. This is (yet) another case where my original CFI's strong advice to "touch everything" paid off. I posted some photos on the Zenith Aircraft site at this URL http://tinyurl.com/dcmtz6 -- Frank Derfler N183AM in the Florida Keys -- Twitter! Follow me at http://Twitter.com/Fderfler See my new Novel, "A Glint in Time" at http://GreatGuyBooks.com. See my discussion of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at http://mostlyflying.com Anybody who READS (anybody out there?) See www.greatguybooks.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:41 PM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Broken Baffle Bracket On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 07:47:40PM -0500, Frank Derfler wrote: > In my pre-flight yesterday I discovered a broken baffle bracket on my > AMD-made 601XL with 200 hours on the tac. I've had that baffle crack twice now, but both times it's originated at the other end (the end attached to the baffle next to the cylinder head). The first time, my A&P made a new baffle out of .025 aluminum, and it cracked again the same way; this time, he used .032 aluminum. We're hoping that fixes the problem. The baffle actually attaches to the crankcase breather hose elbow, not the fuel pump or fuel line. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.