---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/03/09: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:05 AM - XL available for Dual Instruction? (Paul Mulwitz) 2. 08:16 AM - Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? (John Davis) 3. 09:34 AM - Re: Tensile Strength of AN470 solid rivets (leinad) 4. 09:34 AM - Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? (Larry H) 5. 11:12 AM - Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? (PatrickW) 6. 12:21 PM - Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? (Gig Giacona) 7. 12:35 PM - Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? (lwinger) 8. 12:42 PM - Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? (PatrickW) 9. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? (Jay Maynard) 10. 02:03 PM - Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? (Gig Giacona) 11. 04:04 PM - Re: Re: A gentle suggestion () 12. 05:26 PM - Re: A gentle suggestion (Gig Giacona) 13. 10:10 PM - Re: Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? (Paul Mulwitz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:19 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Zenith601-List: XL available for Dual Instruction? I need to get a little dual instruction in an XL to activate my insurance. I thought I might ask the list for an up to date summary of planes in commercial service for training. I know there is one in Northern California that belongs to Bob Archibald. I believe it has dual sticks and a Lycosaurus engine. I have heard rumors of one in AZ and another in FL, but I don't have contact information for those or any others that might be available. I would like to find an XL in Portland, OR with center stick, Jabiru engine, and renting for $1 per hour including fuel and instructor. I would appreciate any information that might help me approach that goal. Thanks, Paul XL getting closer. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:06 AM PST US From: John Davis Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: XL available for Dual Instruction? Hi Paul, I just did my dual time with N130AW an AMD 601XL at the Flight School of Gwinnett at LZU in Gwinnett GA (http://www.theflightschool.com/). The plane seemed to be well maintained and the instructor, Eric Jacobson, was a good guy. The plane was $95/hr plus $45/hr for the CFI. John Davis N601JD Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > I need to get a little dual instruction in an XL to activate my > insurance. I thought I might ask the list for an up to date summary > of planes in commercial service for training. > > I know there is one in Northern California that belongs to Bob > Archibald. I believe it has dual sticks and a Lycosaurus engine. I > have heard rumors of one in AZ and another in FL, but I don't have > contact information for those or any others that might be available. > > I would like to find an XL in Portland, OR with center stick, Jabiru > engine, and renting for $1 per hour including fuel and instructor. I > would appreciate any information that might help me approach that goal. > > Thanks, > > Paul > XL getting closer. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:28 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Tensile Strength of AN470 solid rivets From: "leinad" Doug, I've relied on the info from Aircraft Spruce. Here's an example: ""A" rivets are "soft". They are fabricated from 1100-grade aluminum and have a tensile strength of 16,000 PSI. "AD" rivets are fabricated from 2117 aluminum and heat treated to the T4 condition. They have a shear strength of 26,000 PSI and a tensile strength of 38,000 PSI. Prices below are for 1lb. quantities. All rivets can be purchased in 1/4 lb. (use qty .25) and 1/8 lb. (use qty .13) packages. AN470 (MS20470) AN426 (MS20426)." I think you'll find the ZAC drawing indicate the stronger "AD" rivets. Dan dougsire wrote: > I am working up a rivet strength comparison chart and am trying to find the tensile strength of AN470 1/8" and 5/32" solid aluminum rivets. I found the shear strength in the ZAC Construction Standards but haven't been able to track down tensile. Anyone have that handy? > > Thanks, > Doug Sire > 601XL > Billings, MT -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228322#228322 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:29 AM PST US From: Larry H Subject: Zenith601-List: RE: XL available for Dual Instruction? Paul and others, There is also a 601XL available for training/rent in Holland Michigan. Here is their website for anyone interested: http://www.tulipcityair.com/ Tailwinds, Larry Hursh Edwardsburg, MI CH650 (N650LM Reserved) Working on fuselage now will be Corvair powered ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:12:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? From: "PatrickW" psm(at)att.net wrote: > I know there is one in Northern California that belongs to Bob > Archibald. He's also got a new one with an O200 which I had the pleasure to fly about a month ago. http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.Hoyt/Airplanes#5291708468191992802 - Pat -------- Patrick 601XL/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228338#228338 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:46 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? From: "Gig Giacona" psm(at)att.net wrote: > > > I would like to find an XL in Portland, OR with center stick, Jabiru > engine, and renting for $1 per hour including fuel and > instructor. I would appreciate any information that might help me > approach that goal. > > Thanks, > > Paul > XL getting closer. Paul, I've got the start of a list of rentable 601XLs that I have yet to get time to format an add to my website. I don't have the list handy but I don't remember one in the Portland area. Also, pretty much all of the ones on the list have the Lyc engine. Not to mention they charge a little more than the $1/hour. And this isn't going to help you at all but I have recently found another 601XL that is on the rental line and has an instructor available in Vicksburg MS. This is by far the closest to me. Here's the contact info for the archive. Michael Nassour Nassour Aviation, Inc. P.O. Box 820744 Vicksburg, MS 39182-0744 601-415-3070 http://www.canufly.com/ mnassour@canufly.com -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228343#228343 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:08 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? From: "lwinger" On this topic, does anyone know about Silver Sky Aviation out of Chandler, AZ. I know they are listed as the Southwest distributor for Zenith, but I can't raise them on the phone. I believe they have close connection with League of Extraordinary Aviators for instruction in the 601XLs. Same story on no returned calls from LEA. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair Control surfaces and wings complete Fuselage 98% complete www.mykitlog.com/lwinger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228345#228345 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:42:59 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? From: "PatrickW" lwinger wrote: > does anyone know about Silver Sky Aviation out of Chandler, AZ. I flew with them a couple times, about a year ago. I haven't been able to make it down to AZ since then. Here is their XL, which I believe is AMD serial number 1. Flies well. http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.Hoyt/Airplanes#5143162406772451730 - Pat -------- Patrick 601XL/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228347#228347 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:38 PM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 12:21:09PM -0800, Gig Giacona wrote: > Also, pretty much all of the ones on the list have the Lyc engine. Continental O-200, surely? In any event, I'll be quite surprised to see any rental Zodiacs with the Jabiru engine, since they'll be E-AB, and there are some fairly strict limits on what can be done with them for instruction. (IIRC, you can only instruct in them for transition training, and you have to have a waiver for that.) There may be a very small number of E-LSA Zodiacs available for instruction, but those would have had to have been registered through the fat ultralight process, and that ended over a year ago. (The only one I can think of might be the one at Dragonfly Aviation, and I'm not sure about that.) -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:47 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? From: "Gig Giacona" jmaynard wrote: > > > Continental O-200, surely? Yes, Continental. Not that it matters they are both over weight and underpowered and not engines manly homebuilders would choose for our custom built master pieces. And Jay, I would in the future appreciate it if you would read what I mean instead of what I actually write. :P -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228357#228357 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:12 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: A gentle suggestion This subject comes up every couple of years. One poster said he intended to destroy it rather than sell it. It's easy for anybody to sue. The trick is to win, and thereafter, to collect. The salient points of this running argument have been that : a: There must be enough money to go after for the lawyer to be interested. (that lets me out). b: There should be some wordage in the bill of sale to the effect that the DISASSEMBLED (it shouldn't be sold as a flying aircraft) parts are not warranted to be airworthy, c:assembly is at the new owner's risk, d:there should be some sort of release document executed by the buyer, and e:it ought to contain a paragraph in which the new owner pledges the assets of his estate to defend the seller. Me, personally, I'd include the following wordage: "Seller warrants and guarantees that flight in this aircraft constitutes knowing acceptance of extreme risk, and that such flight is guaranteed, upon impact with the earth, to result in either serious injury or death." If a guy doesn't kill himself and decides to sue for breach of warranty, my defense would be that he hasn't flown it long enough, and therefore has not completely executed the contract. Paul Rodriguez ----- Original Message ----- From: Sabrina To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 4:55 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: A gentle suggestion > I take it Bryan you are not a fan of insurance agents or lawyers. I have found most of my EAA153 builder buddies extremely wealthy. Most spend more on their panel than I spent on the entire aircraft. Where did you get your facts from? A lawyer or an insurance agent? Did you ever think that person told you not to worry because they knew you had an umbrella policy or insurance on the craft itself? Who here is not worried about their liability for a craft they built after they sell it? Has anyone asked their insurance agent if their homeowners or umbrella policy covers it? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228223#228223 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:48 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: A gentle suggestion From: "Gig Giacona" Hundreds of flying kit built planes are sold by their builders in flying condition every year. I have yet to find a single case where the new owner or his survivors has successfully sued the builder after an accident. If you know of such a case post it. If you don't have access to that sort of data just get me a state and one of the names and I'll look it up. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228386#228386 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:55 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: XL available for Dual Instruction? Many thanks to all folks who responded. It looks like it is California for me. I guess we currently have a total of 4 locations for XL training now. It could be worse . . . Paul XL getting close do not archive At 11:12 AM 2/3/2009, you wrote: > > I know there is one in Northern California that belongs to Bob > > Archibald. > >He's also got a new one with an O200 which I had the pleasure to fly >about a month ago. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.