Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:12 AM - Re: Prepping for primer (Gig Giacona)
2. 06:16 AM - Re: new guy questions (LarryMcFarland)
3. 06:24 AM - Re: Prepping for primer (Jimbo)
4. 07:45 AM - Re: Prepping for primer (bryanmmartin)
5. 07:47 AM - 650 canopy side frame (lwinger)
6. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: Prepping for primer (Jim Belcher)
7. 11:09 AM - Re: new guy questions (mcjon77)
8. 12:13 PM - Re: new guy questions (eddies)
9. 03:35 PM - Re: Prepping for primer (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
10. 04:53 PM - Re: new guy questions (leinad)
11. 08:11 PM - Re: Re: new guy questions (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Prepping for primer |
Vinegar is an acid. From Wikipedia...
"Vinegar is an acidic liquid processed from the fermentation of ethanol in a process
that yields its key ingredient, acetic acid (also called ethanoic acid).
"
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231032#231032
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: new guy questions |
Randy,
2024-T3 will corrode at a much higher rate and not offer much more
strength for the 601. Dimpling the skins has been done, but the thin
original wing skins would look very
rippled after having the skins dimpled. As example, a 601 modified in
Mexico had this and ended up with a lot of body filler on all the rivet
rows and elsewhere.
6061 is an ideal material that will serve better, make the job easier
and won't cost so much to build. Dimpling won't make the 601 measurably
faster either.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Randall Tait wrote:
> Has anybody built a CH 601 or 650 out of 2024 t3? Also has anybody
> dimpled skins to get a flush outside skin. I hear that the sonex has
> a dimpled skin option. Thank you for time.
>
> Randy
>
> PS anybody have clecos? Looks like I will need a lot.
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Prepping for primer |
Oven cleaners are lye which is a strong base. Vinegar is acid, so it will n
eutralize the lye. In the case of aluminum, it would be an additional etch.
If the oxide layer is thick, then I suppose self etching primer wont work?
The main thing is to get rid of skin oils and other organic barriers on th
e surface. I use lacquer thinner for that.
--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Afterfxllc@aol.com <Afterfxllc@aol.com> wrote:
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com <Afterfxllc@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Prepping for primer
vinegar is a neutralizing agent and we used to use it after we cleaned our
pizza ovens at our Papa Johns but I have no idea why they would use it befo
re
the etching unless it is to counter any acid based chemical residue which y
ou
shouldn't have on new aluminum.
-
Jeff
I was
told by a local paint supplier that I should spray vinegar on the
aluminum
and then rinse it off with water prior to spraying self etching
primer on
it.- He said that is what they do on boats.- Has anyone ever heard
this?- Good / bad?
-
A Good Credit Score is 7001267884/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditrep
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Prepping for primer |
The oven cleaner you used was probably a strong alkali so a wiping down with a
weak acid like vinegar after cleaning makes sense. The vinegar would neutralize
any residue of the lye.
[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]vinegar is a neutralizing agent and we used to use
it after we cleaned our pizza ovens at our Papa Johns but I have no idea why
they would use it before the etching unless it is to counter any acid based
chemical residue which you shouldn't have on new aluminum.
--------
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231049#231049
Message 5
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| Subject: | 650 canopy side frame |
I'm getting ready to weld my 650-style canopy side frame and would like to see
some pictures of the final part as provided by ZAC. If you have one, please contact
me off list and I can tell you what I'm looking for.
Thanks.
Do not archive.
--------
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Control surfaces and wings complete
Fuselage ready to rivet
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231050#231050
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Prepping for primer |
On Wednesday 18 February 2009 18:36, Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> Sounds like a cheap acid etching to me. I have no idea if it would work but
> that is what he is trying to do with the vinegar.
>
I've never done this to an airplane, but I've tried it on other things, when
etchant wasn't available. It makes a cheap and readily available etchant for
aluminum, and helps get rid of grease, etc. It does seem to help the
adherance of a coat of primer or paint.
I'm leery of using non-aircraft products on aircraft, not because they
necessarily don't work, but becaue they have no long term track record of how
well they work in an aircraft environment.
Besides, my wife gets upset when I swipe the vinegar.
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: new guy questions |
The "dimpled skin option" for the Sonex is merely using all flush rivets for the
entire fuselage and wing rather than just the leading edge. There is debate
as to whether it adds any significant speed increase at all. I haven't heard
anyone say that it would add more than 1 or 2 mph to the cruise. One person
even suggested that without filling the flush rivets there might not be any speed
increase, because you are simply exchanging a small hill for a small crater.
The Sonex folks that do use flush riveting do it mostly for looks. A Polished,
flush riveted Sonex tends to look better in photos, although up close and in
person, IMHO, it is a toss up. I haven't decided whether or not to fllush rivet
my entire airplane. I am going to look at a few more examples of a flush riveted
Sonex before I decide.
Get a hold of "speed with economy" by Kent Paser. He details numerous speed mods
he did to his Mustang II and documented the results. There are a lot of other
speed mods that can be done. However, be very wary about making your plane
TOO fast and exceeding VNE and increasing the potential for a structural failure.
Hope this helps.
--------
Jon McDonald
Building Sonex #1287
Thinking ahead about a Zenith CH 701 :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231086#231086
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: new guy questions |
I dimpled my wings and airframe in the 601XL except for the major structural areas
such as the longerons in the fuselage. The finished result is very good, no
distortion of the skins etc.
As far as speed increase goes there is no benefit that I can tell.
You can have a look at the various photo's here;
http://www.mykitlog.com/eddieseve
Keep in mind that doing this results in lots of extra work and an extended build
time.
Cheers
Eddie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231099#231099
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| Subject: | Re: Prepping for primer |
I wouldn't think Vinegar would be strong enough to etch the aluminum but
Stewart Systems sells a etching wash to use before you paint. Take a piece of
aluminum and stick it in some vinegar and see what happens. If you really want
to etch it good just get some cat urine on it and that will do it for sure but
it stinks to high heaven.
Jeff
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: new guy questions |
Randy,
I've dimpled my skins. I didn't really like the idea of the Zenith flush rivets
pulled into a raised head, though I'm sure they are fine. I have to disagree
with the idea that dimpling somehow distorts the skin. I haven't had that problem
at all. I did the majority of the dimpling with a home made riveting tool.
I'm plans building, so once I've done all the work of laying out, cutting,
drilling and deburring the part, the little bit of extra time dimpling is
no big deal. I didn't really do mine for any performance gain as I believe that
would be negligible. I did it for looks. I like the idea of washing a smooth
surface.
You're right about the clecos, there's no such thing as too many. To see the hand made riveting tool check out my website at http://daniel.dempseyfamily.us/zodiac/index.html
Dan
> "lusc10(at)sbcglobal.net"]Has anybody built a CH 601 or 650 out of 2024 t3?
Also has anybody dimpled skins to get a flush outside skin. I hear that the sonex
has a dimpled skin option. Thank you for time.
>
> Randy
>
> PS anybody have clecos? Looks like I will need a lot.
>
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231134#231134
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: new guy questions |
2024 t3 is what Van's uses and I had asked Zenith at one time if I could use
that instead of 6061 and they said it would be fine for the skins.
Jeff
"lusc10(at)sbcglobal.net"]Has anybody built a CH 601 or 650 out of 2024 t3?
Also has anybody dimpled skins to get a flush outside skin. I hear that the
sonex has a dimpled skin option. Thank you for time.
>
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
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