---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/04/09: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:47 AM - Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (Jay Maynard) 2. 06:16 AM - Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (Gig Giacona) 3. 06:41 AM - Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (Bryan Martin) 4. 06:48 AM - Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (Bryan Martin) 5. 07:03 AM - Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (Jay Maynard) 6. 09:36 AM - Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (pavel569) 7. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (Bryan Martin) 8. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (Bryan Martin) 9. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (Derek Lewis) 10. 11:25 AM - Wing locker option. (K Dilks) 11. 12:40 PM - Re: Wing locker option. (Craig Payne) 12. 04:01 PM - Painting firewall (lwinger) 13. 04:02 PM - Re: Painting firewall (lwinger) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:02 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 09:18:05PM -0800, skyguynca@skyguynca.com wrote: > You know this may seem callous but, is the diehard XL guys going to start > saying this guy too was over controlling, overstressed his airframe...or > maybe by chance it is starting to show another accident with the XL that > something is really wrong here. Until we know more, this would be just more wild speculation. It's far too early to guess at a cause. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:19 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah From: "Gig Giacona" skyguynca wrote: > You know this may seem callous but, is the diehard XL guys going to start > saying this guy too was over controlling, overstressed his airframe...or > maybe by chance it is starting to show another accident with the XL that > something is really wrong here. > > -- Yes there does seem to be something wrong here and that thing is that there are people who will use the death of a pilot to attempt to prove a point before any information at all is available. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233118#233118 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:46 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah The information I got from Zenith when I built mine is that Vfe should be 80 MPH. 132 MPH is way out of the envelope. On Mar 4, 2009, at 2:26 AM, Sabrina wrote: > > > The airspeed indicator had a white arc top speed of 132 MPH, a green > arc of 143 and a Vne of 177. You can tear the flaps and wings off > an XL at 132 with the flaps extended not to mention much of any > maneuver at 142 or smooth cruise in the 170s. The videos show the > flaps extended often, and does not credit the pilot with the build. > He may not have had knowledge of the design limitations. That is > what those marking are for. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:08 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah At this point there is no way to know if the wings folded as a result of flying into a mountain side at a 120 MPH or if they folded before impact. You can't tell much from a grainy, low quality video on the internet. Speculation at this point is not helpful and is completely pointless. > > > More news from Salt Lake Tribune: > > http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_11828411 > > Identifies pilot and Zodiac. The pilot was identified as Kirk > Babbit of Stansbury Park. > > My take on the video previously linked is the wings folded. > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:32 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 09:41:08AM -0500, Bryan Martin wrote: > The information I got from Zenith when I built mine is that Vfe should be > 80 MPH. 132 MPH is way out of the envelope. It's 80 knots (92 MPH) on the AMD Zodiac. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah From: "pavel569" If you read a comments on the website, they report a strong wind and one actually explains the route that is usually used to avoid flying in their B-airspace as close to the mountains. In strong wind is easy to get into downdraft and with not much altitude they may be no chance for recovery. Just my pure speculations!!!! do not archive -------- Pavel CA Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved) Stratus Subaru EA-81 Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table .... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233167#233167 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:52 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah So this airplane had it's Vfe marked 40 to 50 MPH too high. The Zenith plans dated 04/04 lists under Measured Performance with a Rotax 912S Max Continuous Speed as 132 MPH. I wonder if the builder got confused when he was marking the ASI. On Mar 4, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Jay Maynard wrote: > > > > On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 09:41:08AM -0500, Bryan Martin wrote: >> The information I got from Zenith when I built mine is that Vfe >> should be >> 80 MPH. 132 MPH is way out of the envelope. > > It's 80 knots (92 MPH) on the AMD Zodiac. > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:23 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah If he was trying to stay out of the class B airspace he would have to stay below 7600 feet while flying over that island. The island rises 2400 feet above the lake to a peak of nearly 6600 feet. Not a lot of margin. One of the reports mentioned something about dust and haze. I wonder what the visibility was like that day. > > > If you read a comments on the website, they report a strong wind and > one actually explains the route that is usually used to avoid flying > in their B-airspace as close to the mountains. In strong wind is > easy to get into downdraft and with not much altitude they may be no > chance for recovery. Just my pure speculations!!!! -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:19:07 AM PST US From: "Derek Lewis" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah I live in Utah, And it was very windy around the time the plane went down. Also the mountain the plane is on, is in the middle of the Great Salt Lake. The only thing out there is that mountain. I believe with the winds we had, it is VERY likely he hit a strong down draft. Derek Lewis do not archive!!! -- "pavel569" wrote: If you read a comments on the website, they report a strong wind and one actually explains the route that is usually used to avoid flying in their B-airspace as close to the mountains. In strong wind is easy to get into downdraft and with not much altitude they may be no chance for recovery. Just my pure speculations!!!! do not archive -------- Pavel CA Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved) Stratus Subaru EA-81 Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table .... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233167#233167 ____________________________________________________________ Click to get the coolest ring tones on your phone, fast and easy http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/BLSrjnxTAa8tqfERs6z0zBtkjgKYCAjQJAXCWJbRk1SH5SOiyHqKVkoq4hy/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Wing locker option. From: "K Dilks" Can anyone point the way to were I can find the Dzus fastners. Not in the hardware pack so wondering were next. Cheers kev -------- Austria ............. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233198#233198 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:22 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Wing locker option. Mine came in a brown paper bag labeled "wing locker hardware" that contained: 12 Dzus fasteners 12 Dzus springs 60 A5 rivets 50 A4 rivets -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K Dilks Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:24 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Wing locker option. Can anyone point the way to were I can find the Dzus fastners. Not in the hardware pack so wondering were next. Cheers kev -------- Austria ............. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233198#233198 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:47 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Painting firewall From: "lwinger" I understand that Gus Warren paints his firewalls with high temp engine enamel. Andy Elliott reported doing the same. What I don't know is if we're talking about engine side only or both sides. Is there any concern about painting on the cockpit side in the event of a firewall behind the firewall? -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair Control surfaces and wings complete Fuselage ready to rivet www.mykitlog.com/lwinger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233243#233243 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:23 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Painting firewall From: "lwinger" Make that "fire behind the firewall." -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair Control surfaces and wings complete Fuselage ready to rivet www.mykitlog.com/lwinger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233244#233244 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.