Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 (Leroy Wheeler)
2. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 (KARL POLIFKA)
3. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 (Leo Gates)
4. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
5. 09:21 AM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 (Jim Belcher)
6. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 (KARL POLIFKA)
7. 12:26 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 (Leroy Wheeler)
8. 12:33 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 (Jim Belcher)
9. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
10. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 (Bryan Martin)
11. 02:18 PM - Canopy (jaybannist@cs.com)
12. 04:10 PM - Wing Lockers (hansriet)
13. 04:49 PM - Re: Wing Lockers (Jim Belcher)
14. 06:08 PM - CC14 Updates (annken100)
15. 06:32 PM - email address (Randy)
16. 06:33 PM - Re: Wing Lockers (Ianrat)
17. 08:36 PM - Re: email address (Craig Payne)
18. 09:44 PM - Main Gear Support Rubbers' Replacemen - 601XL (T. Graziano)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 |
I think the fuselage is the same for both models of the 601. If the factory
put the screws in the kit I must assume it's right. I also think that
rivets are stronger than screws. The panel is structural. It keeps the
upper longerons parallel. The upper longerons are directly connected to the
motor mounts.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Maynard
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09
(Please trim your quotes, people. There's no reason to include the entire
digest in a reply.)
On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 10:24:22AM -0400, Leroy Wheeler wrote:
> Remember, the upper glare shield that rivets to the top of the firewall is
> structural. Be careful if you're planning on skimping on rivets.
If you're referring to the metal cover that goes across the top of the panel
and down to the fuselage longerons, from the firewall back, that piece
(6C1-4 on my parts catalog drawing) is held on my XL by lots of screws. This
makes working on stuff in the panel a lot easier. Is the structural nature
of it an HD-specific thing?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Checked by AVG.
6:06 AM
Checked by AVG.
6:06 AM
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 |
I agree. Rivets are permanent, screws are not.
Karl Polifka
----- Original Message -----
From: Leroy Wheeler
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09
ail.com>
I think the fuselage is the same for both models of the 601. If the fact
ory
put the screws in the kit I must assume it's right. I also think that
rivets are stronger than screws. The panel is structural. It keeps the
upper longerons parallel. The upper longerons are directly connected to
the
motor mounts.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Mayna
rd
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:46 AM
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09
(Please trim your quotes, people. There's no reason to include the entire
digest in a reply.)
On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 10:24:22AM -0400, Leroy Wheeler wrote:
> Remember, the upper glare shield that rivets to the top of the firewall
is
> structural. Be careful if you're planning on skimping on rivets.
If you're referring to the metal cover that goes across the top of the pa
nel
and down to the fuselage longerons, from the firewall back, that piece
(6C1-4 on my parts catalog drawing) is held on my XL by lots of screws. T
his
makes working on stuff in the panel a lot easier. Is the structural natur
e
of it an HD-specific thing?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Checked by AVG.
6:06 AM
Checked by AVG.
6:06 AM
===========
===========
===========
===========
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 |
601HD/HDS - In 2003 Chris approved my use of Rivnuts and #6 SS screws in
place of rivets for the front panel on my HDS. Basically the same at
the front end as the XL.
--
Leo Gates
N601Z - CH601HDS TDO
Rotax 912UL
Leroy Wheeler wrote:
>
> I think the fuselage is the same for both models of the 601. If the factory
> put the screws in the kit I must assume it's right. I also think that
> rivets are stronger than screws. The panel is structural. It keeps the
> upper longerons parallel. The upper longerons are directly connected to the
> motor mounts.
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 |
Rivets are NOT STRONGER than screws unless you are talking about sheet metal
screws in tension then they MAY be. Rivets are permanent only until you get
the drive out. The problem with removing rivets is you enlarge the holes each
time and soon you will need the next size rivets- reducing the edge
distance.
Jerry of GA DO NOT ARCHIVE
In a message dated 4/2/2009 10:19:55 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jfowler120@verizon.net writes:
I agree. Rivets are permanent, screws are not.
Karl Polifka
----- Original Message -----
From: _Leroy Wheeler_ (mailto:flyboy3847@onecommail.com)
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09
<_flyboy3847@onecommail.com_ (mailto:flyboy3847@onecommail.com) >
I think the fuselage is the same for both models of the 601. If the factory
put the screws in the kit I must assume it's right. I also think that
rivets are stronger than screws. The panel is structural. It keeps the
upper longerons parallel. The upper longerons are directly connected to the
motor mounts.
.
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 |
On Thursday 02 April 2009 10:37, Jeyoung65@aol.com wrote:
> Rivets are NOT STRONGER than screws unless you are talking about sheet
> metal screws in tension then they MAY be. Rivets are permanent only until
> you get the drive out. The problem with removing rivets is you enlarge the
> holes each time and soon you will need the next size rivets- reducing the
> edge distance.
> Jerry of GA DO NOT ARCHIVE
I agree with Jerry in a general sense. But it depends on the screw and the rivet.
Sheet metal screws are, generally, not stronger than rivets of the same size.,
My copies of AC 43-13 are burried at the moment, but I believe there are tables
in one of the two books which show the size of machine screw that can replace
a rivet in an aircraft. I've done this on certificated aircraft, and sold it
to the FAA without a whimper.
Assuming I remember correctly, Zenith states that it takes five of their rivets
to replace three driven rivets of the same diameter. It should be possible to
take this information, and determine the size, number, and type of machine screws
that could replace the rivets to have the same or better strength.
Note that this applies only to aircraft quality screws, which have known structural
properties, not to hardware store screws.
I plan to replace some of the rivets inside the cockpit of my 601XL with screws,
so I can remove panels for maintenance.
============================================
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 |
Okay, since I have been so expertly corrected -- why not use nothing but sh
eet metal screws and screw the rivets. Pun intended.
Karl Polifka
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Belcher
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09
On Thursday 02 April 2009 10:37, Jeyoung65@aol.com wrote:
> Rivets are NOT STRONGER than screws unless you are talking about sheet
> metal screws in tension then they MAY be. Rivets are permanent only unt
il
> you get the drive out. The problem with removing rivets is you enlarge
the
> holes each time and soon you will need the next size rivets- reducing t
he
> edge distance.
> Jerry of GA DO NOT ARCHIVE
I agree with Jerry in a general sense. But it depends on the screw and th
e rivet. Sheet metal screws are, generally, not stronger than rivets of the
same size.,
My copies of AC 43-13 are burried at the moment, but I believe there are
tables in one of the two books which show the size of machine screw that ca
n replace a rivet in an aircraft. I've done this on certificated aircraft,
and sold it to the FAA without a whimper.
Assuming I remember correctly, Zenith states that it takes five of their
rivets to replace three driven rivets of the same diameter. It should be po
ssible to take this information, and determine the size, number, and type o
f machine screws that could replace the rivets to have the same or better s
trength.
Note that this applies only to aircraft quality screws, which have known
structural properties, not to hardware store screws.
I plan to replace some of the rivets inside the cockpit of my 601XL with
screws, so I can remove panels for maintenance.
========================
====================
========================
====================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
========================
====================
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 |
I still want to use rivets. If you plan you don=92t need to use them.
_____
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KARL
POLIFKA
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs -
03/31/09
Okay, since I have been so expertly corrected -- why not use nothing but
sheet metal screws and screw the rivets. Pun intended.
Karl Polifka
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:z601@anemicaardvark.com"Jim Belcher
"mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com"zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs -
03/31/09
On Thursday 02 April 2009 10:37, HYPERLINK
"mailto:Jeyoung65@aol.com"Jeyoung65@aol.com wrote:
> Rivets are NOT STRONGER than screws unless you are talking about sheet
> metal screws in tension then they MAY be. Rivets are permanent only
until
> you get the drive out. The problem with removing rivets is you enlarge
the
> holes each time and soon you will need the next size rivets- reducing
the
> edge distance.
> Jerry of GA DO NOT ARCHIVE
I agree with Jerry in a general sense. But it depends on the screw and
the
rivet. Sheet metal screws are, generally, not stronger than rivets of
the
same size.,
My copies of AC 43-13 are burried at the moment, but I believe there are
tables in one of the two books which show the size of machine screw that
can
replace a rivet in an aircraft. I've done this on certificated aircraft,
and
sold it to the FAA without a whimper.
Assuming I remember correctly, Zenith states that it takes five of their
rivets to replace three driven rivets of the same diameter. It should be
possible to take this information, and determine the size, number, and
type
of machine screws that could replace the rivets to have the same or
better
strength.
Note that this applies only to aircraft quality screws, which have known
structural properties, not to hardware store screws.
I plan to replace some of the rivets inside the cockpit of my 601XL with
screws, so I can remove panels for maintenance.
===================
===================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
===================
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
ics.com
matronics.com/contribution
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List"http://www.matronics.c
om/
Navigator?Zenith601-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
7.5.557 /
Checked by AVG.
4/1/2009
6:06 AM
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 |
On Thursday 02 April 2009 14:12, KARL POLIFKA wrote:
> Okay, since I have been so expertly corrected -- why not use nothing but
> sheet metal screws and screw the rivets. Pun intended.
1) Because sheet metal screws aren't the ones with the same or greater
strength. Machine screws do that.
2) It's very possible that the machine screws (or sheet metal screws, for that
matter) wind up weighing more than the rivet they would replace. That might
not matter much on a few screws, but on a plane full, it matters a lot.
It seems to me that the BD-4 used mostly machine screws and bolts instead of
rivets. But I could be mistaken about that; it's just what I remember.
I don't know that you were "expertly corrected;" we just found a place where
I'd happened to walk down a path you hadn't. I had an instance - maybe ten
years ago - where it wasn't practical to use rivets. I forget why now - I
just remember it wasn't.
=============================================
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
================================================
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 |
Sheet metal screws will pull through the alum. sheets if over torqued and
will vibrate loose. Machine screws, sheet metal screws and bolts cost more than
rivets. DO NOT ARCHIVE Jerry of GA
In a message dated 4/2/2009 2:34:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
z601@anemicaardvark.com writes:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: Jim Belcher <z601@anemicaardvark.com>
On Thursday 02 April 2009 14:12, KARL POLIFKA wrote:
> Okay, since I have been so expertly corrected -- why not use nothing but
> sheet metal screws and screw the rivets. Pun intended.
.
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/09 |
I wouldn't use sheet metal screws anywhere in an airplane (or any
other vehicle for that matter) except maybe on some non-essential item
that is in plain sight and easily inspectable. Sheet metal screws tend
to loosen up whenever they are subjected to the slightest vibration.
Machine screws are much more likely to stay tight in the long term and
rivets even more so. Rivets also have the advantage of being lighter
than a screw of equivalent strength.
On Apr 2, 2009, at 3:12 PM, KARL POLIFKA wrote:
> Okay, since I have been so expertly corrected -- why not use nothing
> but sheet metal screws and screw the rivets. Pun intended.
>
> Karl Polifka
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 11
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Here are some changes I have made to my 601XL canopy.? I think they are improvements.?
The rail guide assures that the latch is aligned with the latch stud.?
The cross brace takes the "floppy" out of this part of the canopy.? The safety
cable is to assure that the canopy can't fly open in case of latch failure.?
Let me know if you have questions.
Jay Bannister? Zodiac 601XL "Lil Bruiser"
Dallas, TX
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 12
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My rear DZUS strip doesn't seems to provide enough 'overlap' with the wing locker
door. I can easily solve this by cutting a new wider strip, but I would like
to know if anybody else ran into that problem.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237449#237449
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Lockers |
On Thursday 02 April 2009 18:08, hansriet wrote:
>
> My rear DZUS strip doesn't seems to provide enough 'overlap' with the wing
> locker door. I can easily solve this by cutting a new wider strip, but I
> would like to know if anybody else ran into that problem.
Yup. I couldn't get much of any of the supplied pieces to fit correctly in the
wing locker. I finally decided to use the cover as the guide to cut new
pieces for everything else.
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
Message 14
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Hey Gang,
Follow the link below for some new information regarding Corvair College 14.
The updates include:
A direct link to hotel reservations with the Aerovair rate.
A new page with links to CC14 promo videos!
Based on the number of people registered so far, this event is shaping up to
be a good one. If you are planning on attending please go to the website
and register. You will also have an opportunity to purchase t-shirts and
the meal plan if you wish.
Check it out at: http://aerovair.com/CC14.html
Thank you,
Ken Pavlou
--------
601 XL / Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237468#237468
Message 15
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Does anyone on this list happen to know Juan Vega's email address?
Thanks,
Randy Ferri
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "hansriet" <hansinla@mac.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 6:08 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Wing Lockers
>
> My rear DZUS strip doesn't seems to provide enough 'overlap' with the wing
> locker door. I can easily solve this by cutting a new wider strip, but I
> would like to know if anybody else ran into that problem.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237449#237449
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Lockers |
I had the same problem. I contacted Zenith and they just said to cut a new wider
strip. I used the wing sheet section that i cut for the locker. All finished
up very good.
Ianrat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237469#237469
Message 17
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amyvega2005@earthlink.net
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 7:31 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: email address
Does anyone on this list happen to know Juan Vega's email address?
Thanks,
Randy Ferri
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "hansriet" <hansinla@mac.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 6:08 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Wing Lockers
>
> My rear DZUS strip doesn't seems to provide enough 'overlap' with the wing
> locker door. I can easily solve this by cutting a new wider strip, but I
> would like to know if anybody else ran into that problem.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237449#237449
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Main Gear Support Rubbers' Replacemen - 601XL |
After over 1000 landings (over 150 very-rough field landings) it is time to
replace my main gear support rubbers. (I wondered what that rattling noise
was when taxiing over the grass/dirt-mud/ gravel - turned out to caused by a
missing "rubber" between the gear and fuselage gear support fitting on the
left hand side).
I have some ideas on how to jack up for replacement, but if anyone else has
done it on a full-up 601XL, I would appreciate info on how you did it.
Thanks,
Tony Graziano
Buchanan, Tn
XL/Jab3300; N493TG; 478 hrs
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