---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/14/09: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:40 AM - Re: 601xl trailer plans?? (n85ae) 2. 12:59 PM - Re: Aileron trim (GERALD A. APPLEFELD) 3. 01:57 PM - Re: Aileron trim (LarryMcFarland) 4. 04:41 PM - Article (hansedj) 5. 04:45 PM - Re: Article (eddies) 6. 04:46 PM - Re: Article (Jay Maynard) 7. 05:36 PM - Re: Article (Tim Juhl) 8. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: Article (bfriedman.zenith) 9. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: Article (KARL POLIFKA) 10. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: Article (Paul Mulwitz) 11. 06:28 PM - Re: Re: Article (jaybannist@cs.com) 12. 09:05 PM - Re: Re: Article (Gary Gower) 13. 09:11 PM - FAA Safety Recommendation - 601XL (David X) 14. 09:34 PM - Re: FAA Safety Recommendation - 601XL () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:40:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: 601xl trailer plans?? From: "n85ae" Actually I have built several trailers, I always use the torsion axles and like them a lot. One thing I was thinking is that you could make the trailer with relocatable axle mounts and then simply adjust the axle location fore and aft to get the tongue weight you want. It would be simple to put the plane on the trailer, and then using a set of jackstands play with them under different locations on the frame in order to find the optimum location for the axles. One thing I have learned from making trailers, is that you rarely use something like an airplane trailer very much. So it is good to build it such that you can reconfigure it for something else later. The Kitfox trailer I built, I used exactly once. Then I sold it. I next made a utility trailer, but made it so that the tongue can be replaced (longer or shorter) and the axle can be moved. This way can reconfigure it for a lot of things like hauling wings, or furniture, etc. By the way the Kitfox trailer took me three weekends of work with a chop saw, a mig welder, and an angle grinder for tools and about $500 in materials. Regards, Jeff Here's another small trailer I made, it became a micro camper with a removable shell that could be used as a utility/motorcycle trailer: Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239141#239141 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/camper03_818.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:59:53 PM PST US From: "GERALD A. APPLEFELD" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron trim LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > Jerry, > I've got a page on trim tabs and an electrical drawing of the wiring > necessary to make it work. Perhaps the pictures in the link > will help. The electrical drawing would help you with the > interconnections. This has worked well in my HDS. > http://www.macsmachine.com/images/electrical/full/primary-wiring-(SH-2).gif > > www.macsmachine.com/html/trimtelevatortrimtabs.htm > www.macsmachine.com/html/trimtailerontrimtabs.htm > Good luck, > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > >> Larry > Thank you far the reply. I see you used a trailing edge tab like I did on the equator I know ZAC uses a tab set into the aileron. What Servo did you use? RAC has several listed based on the throw (length of travel) and I suspect the longer One (l-inch ) would work best. External to The aileron would make retrofit alot more single. Jerry >> >> > > > _- > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:57:38 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron trim GERALD A. APPLEFELD wrote: > > > LarryMcFarland wrote: > Jerry, I'd be inclined to use the 1-inch servo do not archive Larry McFarland . >> >> >> Jerry, >> I've got a page on trim tabs and an electrical drawing of the wiring >> necessary to make it work. Perhaps the pictures in the link >> will help. The electrical drawing would help you with the >> interconnections. This has worked well in my HDS. >> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/electrical/full/primary-wiring-(SH-2).gif >> >> www.macsmachine.com/html/trimtelevatortrimtabs.htm >> www.macsmachine.com/html/trimtailerontrimtabs.htm >> Good luck, >> >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >> >>> Larry >> > Thank you far the reply. I see you used a trailing edge tab like I > did on the equator I know ZAC uses a tab set into the aileron. What > Servo did you use? RAC has several listed based on the throw (length > of travel) and I suspect the longer One (l-inch ) would work best. > External to The aileron would make retrofit alot more single. > Jerry > >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _- > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:08 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Article From: "hansedj" There is a article on ksl.com about this plane breaking apart and the NSTB wanting to ground this plane anybody else heard of this? -------- Dj, Series 6 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239206#239206 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:11 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Article From: "eddies" http://www.ntsb.gov/Recs/letters/2009/A09_30_37.pdf Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239208#239208 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:31 PM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Article On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 04:40:31PM -0700, hansedj wrote: > There is a article on ksl.com about this plane breaking apart and the NSTB > wanting to ground this plane anybody else heard of this? The NTSB has recommended that the FAA ground all Zodiac 601Xls until aileron flutter issues are addressed. Their press release is at http://www.ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2009/090414a.html . -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:02 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Article From: "Tim Juhl" Whoo boy! I guess the gloves are off now. Something not mentioned in the NTSB's letter was any reference to the 650. I would think that the 650 and XL wings are so similar that they would be affected as well. On a personal note, I pretty much stopped building my XL last fall when I got to the center section installation in the fuselage... I suspected that some changes in the design were probably forthcoming and decided that it would be easier not to have to "rebuild" it later. I only hope that the Heintz family will show that they are the kind of people we believe them to be and focus on addressing the NTSB's concerns and developing modifications that will allow us to fly our XL's with confidence. Like all of you, I have quite an investment in my 601 and would like to see it finished and flying, not turned into an expensive lawn ornament. The recent problems with the Cessna 160 shows that unexpected problems can exist in a design that take some time and effort to correct. Just as we will one day see the 160 in production, I believe that the 601 design can be salvaged and it's reputation restored. Fingers crossed..... Tim Juhl -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239223#239223 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:29 PM PST US From: "bfriedman.zenith" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Article This even made CNN. Not a happy day. http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/14/ntsb.small.plane/index.html Brent Friedman ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:29 PM PST US From: "KARL POLIFKA" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Article What is the difference between a CH 601 XL and a Zenith 601 XL? I believe they are different aircraft, and I hope so. Karl ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Juhl To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:35 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Article Whoo boy! I guess the gloves are off now. Something not mentioned in th e NTSB's letter was any reference to the 650. I would think that the 650 a nd XL wings are so similar that they would be affected as well. On a personal note, I pretty much stopped building my XL last fall when I got to the center section installation in the fuselage... I suspected tha t some changes in the design were probably forthcoming and decided that it would be easier not to have to "rebuild" it later. I only hope that the He intz family will show that they are the kind of people we believe them to b e and focus on addressing the NTSB's concerns and developing modifications that will allow us to fly our XL's with confidence. Like all of you, I hav e quite an investment in my 601 and would like to see it finished and flyin g, not turned into an expensive lawn ornament. The recent problems with th e Cessna 160 shows that unexpected problems can exist in a design that take some time and effort to correct. Just as we will one day see the 160 in p roduction, I believe that the 601 design can be salvaged and it's reputatio n restored. Fingers crossed..... Tim Juhl -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239223#239223 =========== =========== =========== =========== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:55 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Article Hi Tim, I agree with you. However, I can't imagine exactly how long it will be before the XL has a clean bill of health. If the FAA grounds it until all the potential problems go away then I probably won't live long enough to fly mine. If it is just the aileron mass balance issue that needs to be resolved, then perhaps it will only be a few months or years. Paul At 05:35 PM 4/14/2009, you wrote: >I believe that the 601 design can be salvaged and it's reputation restored. > >Fingers crossed..... ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Article From: jaybannist@cs.com The proper name is Zodiac CH 601XL.? The kits are made by Zenith Aircraft Company.. -----Original Message----- From: KARL POLIFKA Sent: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 8:08 pm Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Article What is the difference between a CH 601 XL and a Zenith 601 XL?? I believe they are different aircraft, and I hope so. ? Karl ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Juhl Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:35 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Article Whoo boy!? I guess the gloves are off now.? Something not mentioned in the NTSB's letter was any reference to the 650.? I would think that the 650 and XL wings are so similar that they would be affected as well. On a personal note, I pretty much stopped building my XL last fall when I got to the center section installation in the fuselage...? I suspected that some changes in the design were probably forthcoming and decided that it would be easier not to have to "rebuild" it later.? I only hope that the Heintz family will show that they are the kind of people we believe them to be and focus on addressing the NTSB's concerns and developing modifications that will allow us to fly our XL's with confidence.? Like all of you, I have quite an investment in my 601 and would like to see it finished and flying, not turned into an expensive lawn ornament.? The recent problems with the Cessna 160 shows that unexpected problems can exist in a design that take some time and effort to correct.? Just as we will one day see the 160 in production, I believe that the 601 design can be salvaged and it's reputation restored. Fingers crossed..... Tim Juhl -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239223#239223 ?????? es at, p; --> http://www.matsp;???? he Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _???????? bsp;??????????????????? href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================ ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:38 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Article Probably as simple as only using the hingeless alerion as the plans...- - - Saludos Gary Gower. --- On Tue, 4/14/09, Paul Mulwitz wrote: From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Article Hi Tim, I agree with you. However, I can't imagine exactly how long it will be before the XL has a clean bill of health. If the FAA grounds it until all the potential problems go away then I probably won't live long enough to fly mine. If it is just the aileron mass balance issue that needs to be resolv ed, then perhaps it will only be a few months or years. Paul At 05:35 PM 4/14/2009, you wrote: > I believe that the 601 design can be salvaged and it's reputation restored. > > Fingers crossed..... =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:33 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: FAA Safety Recommendation - 601XL From: "David X" I received this today from the NTSB chief scientists investigating recent 601XL crashes. -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239264#239264 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/astm_intl_safetyrecommendationltr_380.pdf http://forums.matronics.com//files/faa_safetyrecommendationltr_201.pdf ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:57 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: FAA Safety Recommendation - 601XL Glad to see our tax dollars at work finally. All sounds more than reasonable to me. David M. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David X Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 9:11 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: FAA Safety Recommendation - 601XL I received this today from the NTSB chief scientists investigating recent 601XL crashes. -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239264#239264 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/astm_intl_safetyrecommendationltr_380.pdf http://forums.matronics.com//files/faa_safetyrecommendationltr_201.pdf ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.