Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:55 AM - Re: First real result of the NTSB report (Iberplanes IGL)
2. 01:03 AM - Re: zbag group (Iberplanes IGL)
3. 05:18 AM - Mass Balanced Ailerons (Frank Derfler)
4. 05:47 AM - An Even More Detailed AVWEB ARTICLE (Frank Derfler)
5. 06:11 AM - Re: Mass Balanced Ailerons (Rene Felker)
6. 07:07 AM - Re: First real result of the NTSB report (n85ae)
7. 07:11 AM - aileron flutter/hard landings (KARL POLIFKA)
8. 08:16 AM - Re: zbag group (Walter Carey)
9. 08:34 AM - An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube (Frank Derfler)
10. 08:51 AM - Re: Sun n Fun (Walter Carey)
11. 09:05 AM - Re: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 09:27 AM - Re: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube (Craig Payne)
13. 09:38 AM - Re: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube (John Davis)
14. 09:42 AM - Re: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube (Gig Giacona)
15. 10:03 AM - Re: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube (Paul Mulwitz)
16. 10:10 AM - Re: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube (John Davis)
17. 01:07 PM - Main gear flex (pavel569)
18. 01:19 PM - Re: FAA Safety Recommendation - 601XL (Scotsman)
19. 02:10 PM - Re: Main gear flex (Gig Giacona)
20. 02:20 PM - Re: Main gear flex (Herb Heaton)
21. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: Main gear flex (Bryan Martin)
22. 02:36 PM - Re: Main gear flex (Gig Giacona)
23. 03:30 PM - Re: Main gear flex (pavel569)
24. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: Main gear flex (Craig Payne)
25. 04:58 PM - Re: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube (special4)
26. 06:04 PM - Re: aileron flutter (Ron Lendon)
27. 06:46 PM - Re: Mass Balanced Ailerons (Tim Juhl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: First real result of the NTSB report |
Hello Jay,
I understand your concern and I fully respect your position. But try to
imagine "what are the feelings of those pilot still grounded (since
october) in Europe? Also those builders, like myself, who had received a
notification "to pospone building" until more info is available. Unfair
right?
2009/4/16 Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com>
>
> Well, the first real result of the NTSB report has happened: the DPE I was
> going to take my CFI-SP checkride with tomorrow postponed it until the
> issue
> is resolved. We talked about it for a while, and I explained what I knew
> about the issue; she said she'd think about it some more and let me know.
>
> I've spent six months getting ready for the checkride. Now, I have no idea
> when, or if, I'll be able to get it done. There's only one other DPE who
> does CFI-SP checkrides in the region, and no FAA inspector does them. I
> have
> no idea where else I could go within reasonable flying distance of KFRM.
>
> I understand and respect her decision. I'm not going to ask anyone to get
> in
> my airplane who's not completely comfortable with the choice.
>
> I've got lots of words to use for the situation. None of them are usable on
> this forum.
> --
> Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
> http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
> Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
> AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
>
>
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Message 2
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same here. I=B4m running my own company in Spain and I have bandwith to giv
e
to my ZBAG fellows.
2009/4/16 bfriedman.zenith <bfriedman.zenith@gmail.com>
> bfriedman.zenith@gmail.com>
>
> If the ZBAG group would like a *simple* website, just let me know. I can
> put something together this weekend, no charge.
>
> Brent Friedman
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
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| Subject: | Mass Balanced Ailerons |
The article on aileron balancing referenced here by Eddie Seve (thank you
Eddie) and written by Tony Bingelis
http://www.fly-imaa.org/imaa/hfarticles/howto/v6-1-36.html is very
interesting. It describes the practice of hand balancing an aileron set for
a specific airplane taking into consideration the paint, etc on the aileron.
Interesting reading and highly recommended.
An A&P I consulted yesterday told me that some light aircraft don't use a
weight suspended on an arm as I'm used to seeing on Pipers, but rather use a
rod of lead on the trailing edge of the aileron. One can hope it's that
simple.
Finally, it was interesting to see, as reported by EAA, that the FAA wasn't
so quick to comply with the NTSB recommendation.
http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-04-15_zodiac.asp--
If you read the slightly different report below from AvWebBiz, a different
FAA spokesperson was even stronger to push back. The link is
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/bizav/1351-full.html#200146
<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/bizav/1351-full.html#200146>
Is the FAA AHEAD of the NTSB?
.. FAA RESPONDS TO ZODIAC
CONCERNS<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/bizav/1351-full.html#200146>
The FAA is already looking into concerns about all versions of the Zodiac
aircraft, which were raised at an industry meeting back in February, FAA
spokeswoman Laura J. Brown told *AVweb* on Tuesday, but she added that the
agency has no immediate plans to call for the airplanes to be grounded. "The
manufacturer already has told owners to check the aileron control cable
tensions," she said. The FAA has formed a special review team with members
from the FAA and the industry to investigate the problem. Brown added that
the FAA has told the ASTM that it should conduct a review of its LSA
standards regarding aerodynamic flutter.
More...<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/bizav/1351-full.html#200146>
-- Frank Derfler,
AMD-made 601XL in the FL Keys
See my new Novel, "A Glint in Time" at http://GreatGuyBooks.com.
See my discussion of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or
(blatantly) immoral at http://mostlyflying.com
Anybody who READS (anybody out there?) See www.greatguybooks.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | An Even More Detailed AVWEB ARTICLE |
This AVWeb piece has even more information in one place. Although most of
the information is known to readers of this list, it seems to be a good
summary ( I haven't done fact-checking on it)
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1352-full.html#200158
-- Frank Derfler,
601XL in the FL Keys
See my new Novel, "A Glint in Time" at http://GreatGuyBooks.com.
See my discussion of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or
(blatantly) immoral at http://mostlyflying.com
Anybody who READS (anybody out there?) See www.greatguybooks.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Mass Balanced Ailerons |
My RV-10 has a steel pipe in the leading edge of the aileron...simple. Per
plans.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank
Derfler
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:18 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Mass Balanced Ailerons
The article on aileron balancing referenced here by Eddie Seve (thank you
Eddie) and written by Tony Bingelis
<http://www.fly-imaa.org/imaa/hfarticles/howto/v6-1-36.html>
http://www.fly-imaa.org/imaa/hfarticles/howto/v6-1-36.html is very
interesting. It describes the practice of hand balancing an aileron set for
a specific airplane taking into consideration the paint, etc on the aileron.
Interesting reading and highly recommended.
An A&P I consulted yesterday told me that some light aircraft don't use a
weight suspended on an arm as I'm used to seeing on Pipers, but rather use a
rod of lead on the trailing edge of the aileron. One can hope it's that
simple.
Finally, it was interesting to see, as reported by EAA, that the FAA wasn't
so quick to comply with the NTSB recommendation.
http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-04-15_zodiac.asp--
If you read the slightly different report below from AvWebBiz, a different
FAA spokesperson was even stronger to push back. The link is
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/bizav/1351-full.html#200146
Is the FAA AHEAD of the NTSB?
.. <http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/bizav/1351-full.html#200146> FAA
RESPONDS TO ZODIAC CONCERNS
The FAA is already looking into concerns about all versions of the Zodiac
aircraft, which were raised at an industry meeting back in February, FAA
spokeswoman Laura J. Brown told AVweb on Tuesday, but she added that the
agency has no immediate plans to call for the airplanes to be grounded. "The
manufacturer already has told owners to check the aileron control cable
tensions," she said. The FAA has formed a special review team with members
from the FAA and the industry to investigate the problem. Brown added that
the FAA has told the ASTM that it should conduct a review of its LSA
standards regarding aerodynamic flutter.
<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/bizav/1351-full.html#200146> More...
-- Frank Derfler,
AMD-made 601XL in the FL Keys
See my new Novel, "A Glint in Time" at http://GreatGuyBooks.com.
See my discussion of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or
(blatantly) immoral at http://mostlyflying.com
Anybody who READS (anybody out there?) See www.greatguybooks.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: First real result of the NTSB report |
I would not be surprised, if another of the first real results is likely
to be that a lot of crash victim families are probably working up
lawsuits related to the crashes. Which backed by the report may
well win against Zenith. Or at least cause enough financial duress
fighting that I'd be surprised if Zenith survives into the future.
I previously built a Kitfox and a lot of builder's lost money when
Skystar went belly up. So I'd highly recommend if you're building
anything Zenith, and intend to finish it that buying all your remaining
parts now might not be a bad idea.
Cable tension can easily be blamed on the builder/pilot. But lack of
mass balance on the aileron's is not something that can be so easily
defended against.
That's my thought's anyway.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239506#239506
Message 7
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| Subject: | aileron flutter/hard landings |
While I do think there are legitimate questions regarding aileron flutter (
and a variety of possible cause including operator/maintainer actions), som
e of the NTSB stuff is a bit odd.
Witnesses on the ground seeing vibration on an airplane entering the patter
n. An eagle maybe, not a person.
Pitch sensitivity. Well, yes. If you don't notice that and fly accordingl
y, you shouldn't be flying.
The discussion over IAS versus CAS. This isn't exactly the X-15. Is this
relevant?
It is unfortunate that Zenith remains somewhat evasive -- but I think I see
lawyers in the background. Let's hope this gets resolved quickly.
Has anyone had problems with firewall and stiffener damage from semi-hard l
andings?
Karl
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: aileron flutter
Hi Ron,
Sorry if I am getting into the argument, but there are a few things
you said that got me going.
First, I don't think it matters what information the NTSB might have
heard or considered in their decision making process. For my money,
they are the top of the food chain when it comes to determining
causes for accidents. If I can't accept their judgement, then I must
put myself above the whole world in the judgement and reasoning
arena. I might have a big ego, but not that big.
Second, I don't agree with you that lots of planes need to be tested
to destruction. The NTSB laid out a series of actions meant to
resolve this issue. I personally feel the vibration testing is the
most important part of the analysis they demanded. Since the
beginning of this problem I have felt it is based on some sort of
mechanical oscillation that causes the low frequency noise cited by
surviving pilots. If this oscillation tendency can be isolated then
it can be removed from the structure. This is similar to the history
of the Lockheed Electra. If found, this would indeed constitute a
valid explanation for all the troubles and amount to a proof.
On a more mundane level, I have to respect the NTSB's judgement that
aileron mass balancing will correct all this trouble. I agree that
nothing has been proven, but as I mentioned above the NTSB is the
best source for this kind of judgement. For me, that means my plane
is grounded until a satisfactory aileron mass balance design is
installed. I hope this can be done in just a few days or weeks, but
I doubt a truly satisfying design will surface by then. The way
Zenith is dragging their feet and making comments about their doubts
I don't think we will get anything from Chris or one of the other
really qualified engineers for a long time. My take on all this is
Sebastian will get in the way of a speedy resolution and there is
nothing any of us can do to change that.
Paul
XL grounded
do not archive
At 07:58 PM 4/15/2009, you wrote:
>It's not like these airplanes are all falling out of the sky.
===========
===========
===========
===========
Message 8
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Brent,
-
- I'm not a member of ZBAG, but I would like to see a website devoted to
the "problem". I'll join and financially support ZBAG when I get an address
for them. Walt in Dayton, Ohio.-
--- On Wed, 4/15/09, bfriedman.zenith <bfriedman.zenith@gmail.com> wrote:
From: bfriedman.zenith <bfriedman.zenith@gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith601-List: zbag group
<bfriedman.zenith@gmail.com>
If the ZBAG group would like a *simple* website, just let me know. I can p
ut
something together this weekend, no charge.
Brent Friedman
Message 9
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| Subject: | An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube |
This video has been viewed over 2000 times, so it is nothing new, but I
don't remember it being mentioned here. I got the lead from a "list lurker"
named Brad. Thank you, Brad. This video shows that a weight can be added
to the 601XL quite nicely. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_D4bt0guvM
--
Frank Derfler
601XL in the Florida Keys
See my new Novel, "A Glint in Time" at http://GreatGuyBooks.com.
See my discussion of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or
(blatantly) immoral at http://mostlyflying.com
Anybody who READS (anybody out there?) See www.greatguybooks.com
Message 10
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Hi Paul,
-
- See you at Sun-N-Fun. Walt Carey from Dayton, Ohio. Wings, empennage, f
laps, etc, complete. Fuselage 25%. Jabiru FWF kit and 3300A engine purchase
d. Building on hold till this thing is resolved.-
--- On Wed, 4/15/09, Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net> wrote:
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Sun n Fun
After considering all my options, I have decided what to do about my Zodiac
XL.
1. My plane is grounded until aileron mass balance is installed. This
requires a design I don't have yet, so the time required for this delay is
undefined.
2. I'm going to Sun n Fun next week to look at other kits and/or S-LSA
planes. I want something to fly while my XL is in limbo.
Anybody else going?
Paul
XL grounded
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube |
Hi Frank,
That balance weight looks very nice, but I'm afraid it raises as many
questions as it answers.
It appears the rear channel has been nearly completely removed where
the balance bar goes through it. What impact does this have on the
strength of the wing?
Considering the color and welding shown it appears steel was used for
most or all of the parts. Does this heavy material add a significant
load to the rest of the wing design? Is all this steel really
necessary to prevent flutter?
Does this prevent aileron flutter? Does this prevent wing flutter?
I truly hope we get a competent design from one of the engineers
actually responsible for the Zodiac XL. Hopefully this would be
Chris Heintz, but it might be one of the many other engineers who
work on the Zenith drawings. I have no idea how to get Zenith/Zenair
to come up with this design since they seem to be dragging their feet
at every step.
Paul
XL grounded
At 08:30 AM 4/16/2009, you wrote:
> I got the lead from a "list lurker" named Brad. Thank you,
> Brad. This video shows that a weight can be added to the 601XL
> quite nicely.
>See
><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_D4bt0guvM>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_D4bt0guvM
>--
Message 12
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| Subject: | An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube |
Hmm, seems they had some flutter at "150 mph" (!)
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank
Derfler
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:30 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube
This video has been viewed over 2000 times, so it is nothing new, but I
don't remember it being mentioned here. I got the lead from a "list lurker"
named Brad. Thank you, Brad. This video shows that a weight can be added
to the 601XL quite nicely.
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_D4bt0guvM
--
Frank Derfler
601XL in the Florida Keys
See my new Novel, "A Glint in Time" at http://GreatGuyBooks.com.
See my discussion of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or
(blatantly) immoral at http://mostlyflying.com
Anybody who READS (anybody out there?) See www.greatguybooks.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube |
Paul,
Keep in mind that Zenith has already submitted a design for a mass
aileron balance to the UKs Light Aircraft Association so they can get
the grounding in the UK lifted. The UK does certify to a lower gross
weight but presumably the aileron balance should be applicable to our
planes as well. The UK LAA guys are supposed to be fitting a test plane
out with the new mod.
John Davis
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> Hi Frank,
>
> That balance weight looks very nice, but I'm afraid it raises as many
> questions as it answers.
>
> It appears the rear channel has been nearly completely removed where
> the balance bar goes through it. What impact does this have on the
> strength of the wing?
>
> Considering the color and welding shown it appears steel was used for
> most or all of the parts. Does this heavy material add a significant
> load to the rest of the wing design? Is all this steel really
> necessary to prevent flutter?
>
> Does this prevent aileron flutter? Does this prevent wing flutter?
>
> I truly hope we get a competent design from one of the engineers
> actually responsible for the Zodiac XL. Hopefully this would be Chris
> Heintz, but it might be one of the many other engineers who work on
> the Zenith drawings. I have no idea how to get Zenith/Zenair to come
> up with this design since they seem to be dragging their feet at every
> step.
>
> Paul
> XL grounded
>
>
> At 08:30 AM 4/16/2009, you wrote:
>> I got the lead from a "list lurker" named Brad. Thank you, Brad.
>> This video shows that a weight can be added to the 601XL quite nicely.
>> See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_D4bt0guvM
>> --
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube |
I would be especially worried about how that weight (It looks awful heavy) would
effect the hingeless ailerons.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239546#239546
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube |
Hi John,
Do you have a copy of this design's drawings? I don't.
Last I heard this design was considered a secret.
Paul
do not archive
At 09:33 AM 4/16/2009, you wrote:
>Paul,
>
>Keep in mind that Zenith has already submitted a design for a mass
>aileron balance to the UKs Light Aircraft Association so they can
>get the grounding in the UK lifted. The UK does certify to a lower
>gross weight but presumably the aileron balance should be
>applicable to our planes as well. The UK LAA guys are supposed to be
>fitting a test plane out with the new mod.
>
>John Davis
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube |
Hi Paul,
No, I dont have the design. The UK LAA folks must have it, not suer if
anyone outside of that group has seen it. My point was that they have a
design and there shouldnt be much involved in them releasing it. Its not
like they have to start from scratch...
John
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> Do you have a copy of this design's drawings? I don't.
>
> Last I heard this design was considered a secret.
>
> Paul
> do not archive
>
> At 09:33 AM 4/16/2009, you wrote:
>> Paul,
>>
>> Keep in mind that Zenith has already submitted a design for a mass
>> aileron balance to the UKs Light Aircraft Association so they can get
>> the grounding in the UK lifted. The UK does certify to a lower gross
>> weight but presumably the aileron balance should be applicable to
>> our planes as well. The UK LAA guys are supposed to be fitting a test
>> plane out with the new mod.
>>
>> John Davis
>
>
Message 17
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One building question in this "grounding" war time.
Placement of my radiator. To have Stratus Subaru as my powerplant, I'm trying
to shift the water radiator as aft as possible to balance this heavier engine.
I have a set of Alu pipes for using with air intake from Larry McFarland. They
are 32" long and I'd like to keep the length as is. It will move the radiator
way back so it will be partially under the main gear. Does anybody know how
much the landing gear center section flexes down when land hard? I can move the
radiator up or down by fabricating its side brackets.
Generally, is it a good idea or is it better to keep it forward, in front of the
gear channel?
--------
Pavel
CA
Zodiac XL N581PL (Reserved)
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table ....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239591#239591
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Safety Recommendation - 601XL |
Agree.
Must be a couple of bruised egos on this site though...
Glad to see that there will be forced changes to allow us to get safely airborne...might
be able to start building again soon.
James
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
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| Subject: | Re: Main gear flex |
pavel569 wrote:
>
> Generally, is it a good idea or is it better to keep it forward, in front of
the gear channel?
I would think so. Watch this video.
http://www.zenithair.com/video/gear_drop_test.mpeg
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
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| Subject: | Re: Main gear flex |
Pavel,
Check out the gear drop test on the Zenith site:
http://www.zenithair.com/video/gear_drop_test.mpeg<http://www.zenithair.c
om/video/gear_drop_test.mpeg>
I have the same problem with my radiator, so I am placing it behind the
main gear with the coolant tubes outboard under the gear attach
brackets. I wouldn't put anything across the center of the main gear
strut.
Herb
Colorado Springs, CO
Subaru EA-81 Turbo
Wiring Panel
----- Original Message -----
From: pavel569<mailto:pm569@hotmail.com>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:06 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Main gear flex
<pm569@hotmail.com<mailto:pm569@hotmail.com>>
One building question in this "grounding" war time.
Placement of my radiator. To have Stratus Subaru as my powerplant,
I'm trying to shift the water radiator as aft as possible to balance
this heavier engine. I have a set of Alu pipes for using with air intake
from Larry McFarland. They are 32" long and I'd like to keep the length
as is. It will move the radiator way back so it will be partially under
the main gear. Does anybody know how much the landing gear center
section flexes down when land hard? I can move the radiator up or down
by fabricating its side brackets.
Generally, is it a good idea or is it better to keep it forward, in
front of the gear channel?
--------
Pavel
CA
Zodiac XL N581PL (Reserved)
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table ....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239591#239591<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239591#239591>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Main gear flex |
Looks like a good three to four inches of flex there. A more efficient
location might be behind the main gear (look at a P-51 Mustang) and
you might even get away with a smaller radiator, but it would require
more plumbing.
On Apr 16, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Gig Giacona wrote:
> >
>
>
> pavel569 wrote:
>>
>> Generally, is it a good idea or is it better to keep it forward, in
>> front of the gear channel?
>
>
> I would think so. Watch this video.
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/video/gear_drop_test.mpeg
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Main gear flex |
Not a water cooled guy but how big around are these coolant lines?
I'm thinking longer lines = more water = more weight. Weight = Bad.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239617#239617
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| Subject: | Re: Main gear flex |
Thanks for your replies, guys. I'll try to fit the radiator with all braces to
find out how much clearance I can get, but I'll have to stay in front of the main
gear, I guess. I want to keep it simple as much as possible. Better move
the battery behind the seats or even add one more to balance the plane.
--------
Pavel
CA
Zodiac XL N581PL (Reserved)
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table ....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239632#239632
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| Subject: | Re: Main gear flex |
Remember that pipes have friction. You can't just keep extending the lines
without having an impact on their flow rate. There is a formula for this
somewhere. You could do some calculations before building or built and test.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Main gear flex
<bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Looks like a good three to four inches of flex there. A more efficient
location might be behind the main gear (look at a P-51 Mustang) and
you might even get away with a smaller radiator, but it would require
more plumbing.
On Apr 16, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Gig Giacona wrote:
> >
>
>
> pavel569 wrote:
>>
>> Generally, is it a good idea or is it better to keep it forward, in
>> front of the gear channel?
>
>
> I would think so. Watch this video.
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/video/gear_drop_test.mpeg
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: An example of 601XL mass balance on YouTube |
Paul
The aileron balance design is from the Airfox guys in Brasil, and will not work
with the Horner wingtips. They use different wingtips. But most probably it could
be modified.
Peter Sonders
--------
Sportsflyer
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| Subject: | Re: aileron flutter |
Paul,
No apology necessary, I like a good debate. I do agree the design could be made
better and as an experimental product we should just do that and not wait for
the government to push for us.
I had a conversation one day with a friend and he asked me who gave me permission
to build the plane, I replied if he meant my wife. His response floored me,
he thought I actually needed the government permission just to go out to my
garage and build an airplane. He really doesn't understand freedom and I do think
that is what is happening here. Here we are free people and we wait for
some government body to guide us on decisions we can and should be making for
ourselves.
The whole purpose of this forum is to solve problems. I see waiting for NTSB,
FAA to be counter productive and a bad influence. I guess I could say I Love
my Country, But I fear my government.
psm(at)att.net wrote:
> Hi Ron,
>
> Sorry if I am getting into the argument, but there are a few things
> you said that got me going.
>
>
Be well, I'm going to SnF
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/site/
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| Subject: | Re: Mass Balanced Ailerons |
My Cessna 172 had a lead strip riveted along the lower front edge of the aileron.
I believe the geometry was such that the weight was forward of the hinge during
at least part of it's travel.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
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