Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:06 AM - Zenith Zip 2009 (Alain Ouellet)
2. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: Wing locker questions. (Jim Belcher)
3. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: Wing locker questions. (LarryMcFarland)
4. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: Wing locker questions. (Bryan Martin)
5. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: Wing locker questions. (Bryan Martin)
6. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: Wing locker questions. (T. Graziano)
7. 08:40 AM - Re: Re: Wing locker questions. (Bill Naumuk)
8. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: Wing locker questions. (Jim Belcher)
9. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: Wing locker questions. (Jim Belcher)
10. 12:45 PM - Re: Wing locker questions. (Tim Juhl)
11. 01:32 PM - Re: elevator cables (rans6andrew)
12. 05:39 PM - West Coast Zenith Fly In (Rosalie)
13. 06:31 PM - Re: What did you do today? (GLJSOJ1)
14. 06:59 PM - Re: elevator cables (Ron Lendon)
15. 07:02 PM - Re: What did you do today? (Ron Lendon)
Message 1
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Hi guys,
This year Zenith Zip 2009 under the aegis of the RAA Toronto Chapter located
at the Brampton Flying Club airport in Ontario returns.
Come and meet fellow builders and owners of Zenith aircraft.
Exchange ideas, tips, stories, good fellowship, etc....
This fly-in should be a repeat performance of the successful Zenith Zip of
2007.
Dates: Week-end of June 13 & 14, 2009
Location: Hangar of the RAA Toronto Chapter at the Brampton Flying Club
Camping: Is available on the site
BBQ lunches: Saturday and Sunday
Saturday night dinner in the planning phase.
Contacts:
Alain Ouellet (905) 458-5424 aouellet@icecanada.com
Pierre Tanguay (613) 992-8108 day ptanguay@rogers.com
(613) 762-7273 evening
Mark Townsend (519)590-7601 info@can-zacaviation.com
Let us know if are planning to come so that we can plan for the food
accordingly.
More details to be posted
Alain
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wing locker questions. |
On Friday 08 May 2009 21:24, Tim Juhl wrote:
>
> In my experience DZUS fasteners hold quite well. The cowlings and panels
> on the WWII B25 I used to crew used a bunch of them. I also have them on
> my Champ and they've never failed in 34 years :-)
But are these in the same configuration as those on the Zenith? There's no
positive retention mechanism on these as they are intended to be installed. If
you tip the wing locker up, they fall out.
I've used Dzus fasteners before with good success also. But they weren't
configured as these are.
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wing locker questions. |
Hi Jim,
I'd recommend you make some nylon washers from milk jugs to retain the
Dzus fasteners or purchase
the same from Aircraft Spruce labeled as thermoplastic GP half grommet
types for about .06 each.
These will secure the studs and keep you from loosing any.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Jim Belcher wrote:
>
> On Friday 08 May 2009 21:24, Tim Juhl wrote:
>
>>
>> In my experience DZUS fasteners hold quite well. The cowlings and panels
>> on the WWII B25 I used to crew used a bunch of them. I also have them on
>> my Champ and they've never failed in 34 years :-)
>>
>
> But are these in the same configuration as those on the Zenith? There's no
> positive retention mechanism on these as they are intended to be installed. If
> you tip the wing locker up, they fall out.
>
> I've used Dzus fasteners before with good success also. But they weren't
> configured as these are.
>
> ============================================
> Do not archive.
> ============================================
> Jim B Belcher
> BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
> A&P/IA
> Retired aerospace technical manager
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wing locker questions. |
You can get plastic half grommets from Aircraft Spruce that snap on to
the dzus fastener and hold it captive in the panel. These are part
number GP3B, GP4B, etc. The number corresponds to the diameter of the
stud in 16ths of an inch. They also carry more expensive metal
grommets that require special tools to install.
On May 9, 2009, at 10:15 AM, Jim Belcher wrote:
>
> But are these in the same configuration as those on the Zenith?
> There's no
> positive retention mechanism on these as they are intended to be
> installed. If
> you tip the wing locker up, they fall out.
>
> I've used Dzus fasteners before with good success also. But they
> weren't
> configured as these are.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wing locker questions. |
See: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/grommets.php
bottom of page, Half Grommets.
On May 9, 2009, at 10:15 AM, Jim Belcher wrote:
> But are these in the same configuration as those on the Zenith?
> There's no
> positive retention mechanism on these as they are intended to be
> installed. If
> you tip the wing locker up, they fall out.
>
> I've used Dzus fasteners before with good success also. But they
> weren't
> configured as these are.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Wing locker questions. |
I used appropriate diameter "O" rings from my Harbor Freight "O" ring kit.
They have worked well to retain the fasteners for about 4 years. Just slip
them over the fasteners "stud" end.
Tony Graziano
XL/Jab N493TG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Martin" <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Wing locker questions.
> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> You can get plastic half grommets from Aircraft Spruce that snap on to
> the dzus fastener and hold it captive in the panel. These are part number
> GP3B, GP4B, etc. The number corresponds to the diameter of the stud in
> 16ths of an inch. They also carry more expensive metal grommets that
> require special tools to install.
>
> On May 9, 2009, at 10:15 AM, Jim Belcher wrote:
>
>>
>> But are these in the same configuration as those on the Zenith? There's
>> no
>> positive retention mechanism on these as they are intended to be
>> installed. If
>> you tip the wing locker up, they fall out.
>>
>> I've used Dzus fasteners before with good success also. But they weren't
>> configured as these are.
>>
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL,
> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Wing locker questions. |
All-
After many hours I managed to get the DZUS to work properly on my
lockers but I still have no faith in their ability to hold securely. Since I
have locker tanks, the best compromise I could come up with is a
modification of what Klaus' (Sorry, I can't remember his last name)
extensive airflow tests on his HDS indicated.
I intend to secure the main section of the locker with screws and
nutplates, then add a small hatch to access the filler spout. Mind you, I
made this decision after I got the DZUS to work. The small hatch would
create minimal airflow disturbance if it opened, yet you can still get in
for inspection or maintenance purposes. I know of several builders who
simply didn't add the locker option. Just another option.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Belcher" <z601@anemicaardvark.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Wing locker questions.
> <z601@anemicaardvark.com>
>
> On Friday 08 May 2009 21:24, Tim Juhl wrote:
>>
>> In my experience DZUS fasteners hold quite well. The cowlings and panels
>> on the WWII B25 I used to crew used a bunch of them. I also have them on
>> my Champ and they've never failed in 34 years :-)
>
> But are these in the same configuration as those on the Zenith? There's no
> positive retention mechanism on these as they are intended to be
> installed. If
> you tip the wing locker up, they fall out.
>
> I've used Dzus fasteners before with good success also. But they weren't
> configured as these are.
>
> ============================================
> Do not archive.
> ============================================
> Jim B Belcher
> BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
> A&P/IA
> Retired aerospace technical manager
> ============================================
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wing locker questions. |
On Saturday 09 May 2009 09:58, LarryMcFarland wrote:
> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Hi Jim,
> I'd recommend you make some nylon washers from milk jugs to retain the
> Dzus fasteners or purchase
> the same from Aircraft Spruce labeled as thermoplastic GP half grommet
> types for about .06 each.
> These will secure the studs and keep you from loosing any.
Thanks for the tip! What I wound up doing was to use "O" rings. That held the
fasteners in place, and also pushed against the fasteners when the locker is
closed, making it more secure.
My response was really directed towards the fact that some Dzus fastener
installations really are secure. But, as designed, those in the 601XL aren't.
=============================================
Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
Do not drink and derive.
================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
================================================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wing locker questions. |
On Saturday 09 May 2009 10:21, T. Graziano wrote:
> <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
>
> I used appropriate diameter "O" rings from my Harbor Freight "O" ring kit.
> They have worked well to retain the fasteners for about 4 years. Just slip
> them over the fasteners "stud" end.
Same place I got mine. :-)
=============================================
Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
Do not drink and derive.
================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
================================================
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wing locker questions. |
I should have added that I used the thermoplastic grommets that Bryan recommended
when I installed the dzus fasteners on my XL wings. When I installed the springs
I dimpled the rivet holes and used a flat head on the rivet puller. The
hole in the dzus strip is large enough to accommodate dished part of the plastic
grommet. The fasteners supplied with my kit hold the cover very snuggly and
flush with the wing skin. I did add a third stiffener in the middle of the cover
to help it hold it's shape.
On the B25 most of the Dzus fasteners were not held in place by grommets. Our
biggest problem was with the springs inasmuch as 40+ years of vibrating next to
a 1700 hp radial engine took it's toll. From time to time we would find one
missing but we never lost a panel. I would suspect that you could lose most
of the fasteners on a wing locker cover without worrying about losing it. The
forward hinge won't let it go anywhere while the dzus fasteners will hold it
flush.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243293#243293
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: elevator cables |
mystery solved.
What I have found out, by trial and error, is that the variation in tension is
affected by the relative positions of the elevator neutral position and the stick
neutral position. Slackening the upper cable, at the stick end, then tightening
the lower cable eventually gets to a situation where the cable tension
stays virtually constant as the stick is moved.
After I had sorted that out I soldered a plug to the flap motor wiring and tested
the feedback indicator. Then I fitted some nutplates to the rudder fairing
so that I could remove it easily if I should ever need to have the tailplane
off (tailplane is too wide for my garage) and fitted it with stainless bolts.
Just the reg letters to apply, fit the wing panels, wires for fuel gauge senders
and connect tank pipe connections and it will be done. Hurrah!
I capped the day by taxiing up and down the airfield (without the wings!) for every
ones amusement. Good Game.
Andrew.
--------
A good way through building a 601UL with 912UL.
Still flying Rans S6 with 503.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243298#243298
Message 12
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| Subject: | West Coast Zenith Fly In |
I just got back from a very fun day at the West Coast Zenith Fly In
hosted by Quality Sports Planes in Cloverdale, California. Lot's of
CH601's flew in (with wings on!) including my own Zodiac XL. There were
lots of 701's, a few Van's and your usual spam cans We had a grand day
with lots of fun, food and the Young Eagles event was a great success.
I counted over 50 kids getting rides in RV's, Cessnas, Pipers, &
Zeniths. Thanks to Doug and Laurie Dugger for all their hard work!
Brad DeMeo
N601BD
Zodiac/Jab 3300
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do today? |
Today I attached clamps to all the air hose in the engine area and put it all back
together and fired it up and taxied around the airport. I have an inspection
scheduled in about three weeks
--------
601XL N676L reserved
ALMOST DONE
CHESAPEAKE VA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243330#243330
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/finished_aircraft_007_483.jpg
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: elevator cables |
rans6andrew wrote:
> mystery solved.
>
> What I have found out, by trial and error, is that the variation in tension is
affected by the relative positions of the elevator neutral position and the
stick neutral position. Slackening the upper cable, at the stick end, then tightening
the lower cable eventually gets to a situation where the cable tension
stays virtually constant as the stick is moved.
>
>
> Andrew.
Good catch Andrew. To clarify, I believe when the elevator and control stick are
in the neutral position the angle of the cables to the stick should be equal.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/site/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243335#243335
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do today? |
I bought a canopy, rode my motorcycle and visited friends.
do not archive
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/site/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243336#243336
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