---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/23/09: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:03 AM - Aeroelastic Analysis CH601XL (Thruster87) 2. 09:17 AM - Wgt & Bal. (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 3. 10:24 AM - Re: Wgt & Bal. (KARL POLIFKA) 4. 12:41 PM - Re: Wgt & Bal. (Gig Giacona) 5. 01:04 PM - Re: Re: Wgt & Bal. (KARL POLIFKA) 6. 01:45 PM - Re: Wgt & Bal. (Gig Giacona) 7. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Wgt & Bal. (KARL POLIFKA) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Aeroelastic Analysis CH601XL From: "Thruster87" Aeroelastic Analysis CH601XL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249634#249634 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ch601xl_gvt_june6_197.pdf ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:22 AM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: Zenith601-List: Wgt & Bal. All, my 601 XL with Jab 3300, dual sticks, Dynon DEK -180, Strobes, Nav lights, Transponder, Radio, Wing Lockers, Odyssey 680 battery on the firewall ( outside ) weighs 770#. it was etched, alodined, and primed inside and out. Finish painted outside, baggage compartment and Cabin area. it also has side panels upholstered and seats. The empty CG is at 13.2 in. aft datum. my friends 601 XL with Cont. O-200 weighs 805 with the same equipment except Transponder ( he has none ) but he has Dynon Autopilot. His empty CG is not as far back as mine so he can not carry as much weight but has no problem with aft CG at min. Fuel. We weighed these 2 aircraft twice with electronic scales and once with bathroom scales. each time the scales were within 10 lbs. of each other. ( If you can find someone with race car scales they are calibrated at 2,000 Lbs. that puts us at about 30 % which should be pretty accurate) if a 200 lb. passenger is on board i have to land with at least 7 gallons of fuel on board so the aft CG limit will not be exceeded. with a 220 Lb. passenger i can take off with full fuel but have to land with at least 14 gallons on board. You can see how this would affect a cross country flight. Ya'll might want to check your CG Rear Limit when down to minimum fuel. even more critical if you have 2 people and baggage. if you are near the gross weight at take off with full fuel do another check and be SURE the CG does not exceed rear limit when down to min Fuel. CG goes AFT as Fuel is burned. As an aside it is hard to land on the mains and hold the nose off without flaps without dragging the tail. Has anyone else figured their CG at Min Fuel with 2 heavy persons on board?? Am i the only one having this situation?? i need constant supervision : ) do not archive Bobby Paulk N131BP 82 plus hours. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:39 AM PST US From: "KARL POLIFKA" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Wgt & Bal. We have exactly the same configuration and have found that with a couple of 200# types that there is a distinctive pitch-up in the flare if the fuel i s down to 10 gallons or so. We've never been able to hold the nose off. W e have also increased our touchdown speed to the 55 kias area with half fla ps and lots of nose up trim to make for a softer nose wheel touchdown. Why ? A hard landing a few months ago resulted in considerable firewall damage The repair process revealed that the damage started long before the hard landing -- the phenolic block at the strut bottom was severely elongated f ore and aft. This appears to have been caused by too much smacking down on the nose wheel. That is now part of the 50 hour inspection checklist. Karl ----- Original Message ----- From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net To: zenith601-list-digest@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:09 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Wgt & Bal. All, my 601 XL with Jab 3300, dual sticks, Dynon DEK -180, Strobes, Nav lights , Transponder, Radio, Wing Lockers, Odyssey 680 battery on the firewall ( o utside ) weighs 770#. it was etched, alodined, and primed inside and out. Finish painted outsid e, baggage compartment and Cabin area. it also has side panels upholstered and seats. The empty CG is at 13.2 in. aft datum. my friends 601 XL with Cont. O-200 weighs 805 with the same equipment exc ept Transponder ( he has none ) but he has Dynon Autopilot. His empty CG is not as far back as mine so he can not carry as much weight but has no prob lem with aft CG at min. Fuel. We weighed these 2 aircraft twice with electronic scales and once with ba throom scales. each time the scales were within 10 lbs. of each other. ( If you can find someone with race car scales they are calibrated at 2,000 Lbs that puts us at about 30 % which should be pretty accurate) if a 200 lb. passenger is on board i have to land with at least 7 gallons of fuel on board so the aft CG limit will not be exceeded. with a 220 Lb. passenger i can take off with full fuel but have to land with at least 14 gallons on board. You can see how this would affect a cross country flight. Ya'll might want to check your CG Rear Limit when down to minimum fuel. e ven more critical if you have 2 people and baggage. if you are near the gross weight at take off with full fuel do another ch eck and be SURE the CG does not exceed rear limit when down to min Fuel. CG goes AFT as Fuel is burned. As an aside it is hard to land on the mains and hold the nose off without flaps without dragging the tail. Has anyone else figured their CG at Min Fuel with 2 heavy persons on boar d?? Am i the only one having this situation?? i need constant supervision : ) do not archive Bobby Paulk N131BP 82 plus hours. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:51 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Wgt & Bal. From: "Gig Giacona" Do you have any photos of the damage that was caused by the hard landing? Also, which way is the main gear mounted? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249717#249717 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:01 PM PST US From: "KARL POLIFKA" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Wgt & Bal. Gig, I'm checking with the repair place for pictures. Will get back with you if they took any. What do you mean about the main gear? We bought this kit partially built a nd somehow I think you're about to surprise me with something. Karl ----- Original Message ----- From: Gig Giacona To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:40 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Wgt & Bal. Do you have any photos of the damage that was caused by the hard landing? Also, which way is the main gear mounted? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249717#249717 =========== =========== =========== =========== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:04 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Wgt & Bal. From: "Gig Giacona" jfowler120(at)verizon.net wrote: > Gig, > > I'm checking with the repair place for pictures. Will get back with you if they took any. > > What do you mean about the main gear? We bought this kit partially built and somehow I think you're about to surprise me with something. > > Karl > > Yes I am. If you follow this link http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-gear.pdf you will see a photo showing the gear on the ground with the marked for install flat side forward. If you look at all the other photos of the completed airplane, that happens to be the factory demo plane, you will see that the gear used to be installed with the flat side to the rear. This had the effect of reducing the distance between the main gear and the nose wheel and is supposed to make it easier to keep the nose off the ground when landing. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249722#249722 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:09 PM PST US From: "KARL POLIFKA" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Wgt & Bal. Gig, Thanks. Will check it tomorrow. Karl ----- Original Message ----- From: Gig Giacona To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:44 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Wgt & Bal. jfowler120(at)verizon.net wrote: > Gig, > > I'm checking with the repair place for pictures. Will get back with you if they took any. > > What do you mean about the main gear?=EF=BD We bought this kit par tially built and somehow I think you're about to surprise me with somethin g. > > Karl > > Yes I am. If you follow this link http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-gear.pdf you will see a photo showing the gear on the ground with the marked for i nstall flat side forward. If you look at all the other photos of the comple ted airplane, that happens to be the factory demo plane, you will see that the gear used to be installed with the flat side to the rear. This had the effect of reducing the distance between the main gear and the nose wheel an d is supposed to make it easier to keep the nose off the ground when landin g. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249722#249722 =========== =========== =========== =========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.