Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:44 AM - Fuselage Side Skins (Front) (Scotsman)
2. 06:03 AM - Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) (pavel569)
3. 06:03 AM - Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 06:28 AM - Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) (Scotsman)
5. 06:51 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) (Paul Mulwitz)
6. 09:40 AM - Re: Wgt & Bal. (Gig Giacona)
7. 10:21 AM - Re: ENGINE, ENGINE *9 (planecrazzzy)
8. 11:10 AM - Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) (Davcoberly@wmconnect.com)
9. 01:12 PM - Rivnuts (Bill Pagan)
10. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: Wgt & Bal. (KARL POLIFKA)
11. 01:52 PM - Re: Rivnuts (T. Graziano)
12. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Wgt & Bal. (vmi67@yahoo.com)
13. 02:39 PM - Re: Wgt & Bal. (Gig Giacona)
14. 06:55 PM - Re: Rivnuts (Bill Naumuk)
15. 07:04 PM - Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) (chuck960)
16. 07:37 PM - Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) (w8n2bup)
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| Subject: | Fuselage Side Skins (Front) |
Afternoon all, frustration and probable stupidity has driven me to posting this
question on the list. [Embarassed]
I am at the point where I am trial fitting the front side skins of the fuselage
to the ac. I have followed the steps in the builders photo guide but have hit
the following problem. I can't see where I have gone wrong so I am hoping that
someone on the list can enlighten me.
When trial fitting the front side skins of the fuselage I have pressed the rear
of the skin against the rear spar attach plate and things look good at that end
in terms of the height of the skin versus the upper longeron and the lower
longeron (plus also alignment).
As I look along the floor of the cockpit from the attach plate to the gear channel
all is perfectly aligned. The problem is between the main spar and the gear
channel that the alignment of the predrilled holes on the bottom of the side
skin drops below the height of the cockpit floor. This obviously isn't meant
to happen.
The instructions state to raise the firewall 42 mm (if I remember correctly) off
the beams and what appears to be causing this is that the reinforcing "longerons"
under the cockpit floor appear to be raising the floor above its intended
level. If I try raising the upper longeron to compensate then I no longer have
a level upper longeron (ie. just creating another problem).
Has anyone experienced this or alternatively can visualise how I may have cocked
this up? Any help would be appreciated as this is quite frustrating and holding
up the build.
Cheers
James
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249782#249782
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) |
James,
if your side skin is aligned with the fuse floor aft of the gear channel and you
have the gear channel level and firewall at the required angle (77deg) you should
end up perfectly aligned. It's important to hold the gear channel down with
some weight to keep it level.
--------
Pavel
CA
Zodiac XL N581PL (Reserved)
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table ....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249783#249783
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) |
Hi James,
I think I had a similar problem (if I really understood your
issue). The position of the gear channel and cabin floor has a
couple of degrees of freedom. I needed to be very careful that all
the pieces were firmly held at the correct angles to get it all to
fit together. I think my parts - particularly the side skin - had
fewer holes pre-drilled than yours, so I may have had a slightly
different set of issues to handle.
This is the kind of question that the tech support folks at Zenith
are really good at handling. I suggest you give them a call before
doing anything permanent. I realize this might take some tricky
scheduling because of the different time zones, but I think it would
be worth your while.
Good luck,
Paul
XL grounded.
do not archive
At 05:44 AM 6/24/2009, you wrote:
><james.roberts@computershare.co.za>
>
>Afternoon all, frustration and probable stupidity has driven me to
>posting this question on the list. [Embarassed]
>
>I am at the point where I am trial fitting the front side skins of
>the fuselage to the ac. I have followed the steps in the builders
>photo guide but have hit the following problem. I can't see where I
>have gone wrong so I am hoping that someone on the list can enlighten me.
>
>When trial fitting the front side skins of the fuselage I have
>pressed the rear of the skin against the rear spar attach plate and
>things look good at that end in terms of the height of the skin
>versus the upper longeron and the lower longeron (plus also alignment).
>
>As I look along the floor of the cockpit from the attach plate to
>the gear channel all is perfectly aligned. The problem is between
>the main spar and the gear channel that the alignment of the
>predrilled holes on the bottom of the side skin drops below the
>height of the cockpit floor. This obviously isn't meant to happen.
>
>The instructions state to raise the firewall 42 mm (if I remember
>correctly) off the beams and what appears to be causing this is that
>the reinforcing "longerons" under the cockpit floor appear to be
>raising the floor above its intended level. If I try raising the
>upper longeron to compensate then I no longer have a level upper
>longeron (ie. just creating another problem).
>
>Has anyone experienced this or alternatively can visualise how I may
>have cocked this up? Any help would be appreciated as this is quite
>frustrating and holding up the build.
>
>Cheers
>
>James
>
>--------
>Cell +27 83 675 0815
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) |
Thanks for the responses so far.
Pavel - I have a good sized collection of weights on top of the gear channel as
otherwise it was inclined to bow upwards slightly. I made the firewall jig in
accordance with the specs so the firewall should be at the required 77 degrees.
Paul - How did you solve the problem with yours? Going from aft towards the firewall
the predrilled holes at the foot of the side skin essentially stop at the
main spar (there are other holes after that but they are significantly higher
on the skins for some of the L angles that get attached later). The overlap
of the bottom of the side skin forward of the firewall gets trimmed later...on
the aft side of the firewall it should be flush and not overhang by 0.5 cm.
Any other ideas before I zip an email to Zenith....ideally I would like to fix
the problem tonight.
Cheers
James
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249788#249788
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) |
Hi James,
I wish I could remember all the details of that
problem. Unfortunately it was a couple of years ago when I faced
it. The sad news is that the notion of 90% complete and 90% to go is
reality. The difference is the time it takes to complete the
airframe kit and actually finish the whole airplane that includes a
lot of stuff not included in the kit like engine, instruments,
upholstery, paint, etc.
As I recall, I didn't wind up with any side skin overhang on the
firewall. Also, I remember needing to cut a rather deep notch in the
side skin around the wing rear channel connection to get the proper
overhang between the side skin and the rear side skin. In my case,
the trimming was done on the rear end of the front side skin rather
than around the firewall end.
On second thought, I think the side skin hangs quite a way over the
firewall to allow for attachment of the engine cowl. Maybe I am just
remembering this all wrong. My plane and drawing set are at the
hangar, and I am at home.
I also had difficulties that generated a long conversation with one
of the Zenith guys over the overall mating of the front to rear
fuselage and the resulting "Fit", I wound up with one less rivet in
the side "Splice" of the top longeron than the drawings show (7 sets
of rivets instead of 8). I also had to extend the baggage floor
perhaps one cm.
The only suggestion I can offer is to double check the angle of the
gear channel to both the front floor and the rear section of the fuselage.
Good luck,
Paul
XL grounded
do not archive
At 06:27 AM 6/24/2009, you wrote:
><james.roberts@computershare.co.za>
>
>Thanks for the responses so far.
>
>Pavel - I have a good sized collection of weights on top of the gear
>channel as otherwise it was inclined to bow upwards slightly. I
>made the firewall jig in accordance with the specs so the firewall
>should be at the required 77 degrees.
>
>Paul - How did you solve the problem with yours? Going from aft
>towards the firewall the predrilled holes at the foot of the side
>skin essentially stop at the main spar (there are other holes after
>that but they are significantly higher on the skins for some of the
>L angles that get attached later). The overlap of the bottom of the
>side skin forward of the firewall gets trimmed later...on the aft
>side of the firewall it should be flush and not overhang by 0.5 cm.
>
>Any other ideas before I zip an email to Zenith....ideally I would
>like to fix the problem tonight.
>
>Cheers
>
>
>James
>
>--------
>Cell +27 83 675 0815
>
Message 6
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jfowler120(at)verizon.net wrote:
> Gig,
>
> Thanks. Will check it tomorrow.
>
> Karl
> ---
Don't forget to let me know the outcome.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249827#249827
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: ENGINE, ENGINE *9 |
Charles... I was reffered here by some one....
I'm interested in finding out about the engine , if you still have it.
Price , location.... any pictures...
Could you email me direct...
planecrazzzy@yahoo.com
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" the Flying
Dog
.
.
.
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249836#249836
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) |
There was a lot of the pre-punched holes on the sides skins that I fought
with trying to get everything to line up with. After talking to Zenith I
just drilled new holes between and above those that you are talking about
nobody will ever notice they will be under the wings anyway. David Coberly
Message 9
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Hello all,
-
What are the pluses - minuses of using keyed vs. keyless rivnuts.- What i
s the difference?
-
I'm assuming (I know thats dangerous) that the "keyed" rivnuts simply have
a protruding spot that helps in avoiding the rivnut from spinning in it's h
ole.
Bill Pagan
=0A=0A=0A
Message 10
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I talked with Zenith. They said that in our case with a Jabiru engine to l
eave the "slanted side" forward as it is now on our airplane. "Straight si
de" forward is for use with heavier engines (e.g. Continental) to assist in
lifting the nose for takeoff. The difference in fore and aft tire footpri
nt is about 1 1/2 inches.
Karl
----- Original Message -----
From: Gig Giacona
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:44 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Wgt & Bal.
jfowler120(at)verizon.net wrote:
> Gig,
>
> I'm checking with the repair place for pictures. Will get back with
you if they took any.
>
> What do you mean about the main gear?=EF=BD We bought this kit par
tially built and somehow I think you're about to surprise me with somethin
g.
>
> Karl
>
>
Yes I am. If you follow this link
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-gear.pdf
you will see a photo showing the gear on the ground with the marked for i
nstall flat side forward. If you look at all the other photos of the comple
ted airplane, that happens to be the factory demo plane, you will see that
the gear used to be installed with the flat side to the rear. This had the
effect of reducing the distance between the main gear and the nose wheel an
d is supposed to make it easier to keep the nose off the ground when landin
g.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249722#249722
===========
===========
===========
===========
Message 11
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I installed all of my rivnuts with red loctite under the head, and shank
near the head. No problems to date.
Tony Graziano
XL/Jab 505 hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Pagan
To: Zenith List ; zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:03 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Rivnuts
Hello all,
What are the pluses - minuses of using keyed vs. keyless
rivnuts. What is the difference?
I'm assuming (I know thats dangerous) that the "keyed" rivnuts
simply have a protruding spot that helps in avoiding the rivnut from
spinning in it's hole.
Bill Pagan
Message 12
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Happy to hear that.- Re-hanging the gear wouldn't rate real high on my fu
n-o-meter.=0A=0AJim- :)=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A
From: KARL POLIFKA <jfowler120@verizon.net>=0ATo: zenith601-list@matronics.
com=0ACc: Melton <meltonoso@cox.net>; Ferrell (laptop) <vmi67@yahoo.com>; B
aker <tbaker4254@aol.com>=0ASent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:32:31 PM=0ASub
ject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Wgt & Bal.=0A=0A=0AI talked with Zenith.- T
hey said that in our case with a Jabiru engine to leave the "slanted side"
forward as it is now on our airplane.- "Straight side" forward is for use
with heavier engines (e.g. Continental) to assist in lifting the nose for
takeoff.- The difference in fore and aft tire footprint is about 1 1/2 in
ches.- =0A-=0AKarl=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Gig Giacona
=0A>To: zenith601-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:44
PM=0A>Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Wgt & Bal.=0A>=0A>--> Zenith601-List me
ssage posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona@gmail.com>=0A>=0A>=0A>jfowler120(
at)verizon.net wrote:=0A>> Gig,=0A>>-- =0A>>- I'm checking with the r
epair place for- pictures.- Will get back with you if they took any.=0A
>>-- =0A>>- What do you mean about the main gear?=EF=BD We- boug
ht this kit partially built and somehow I think you're about to surprise me
- with something.=0A>>-- =0A>>- Karl=0A>>-- =0A>>-- =0A>=0A
>=0A>Yes I am. If you follow this link =0A>=0A>http://www.zenithair.com/zod
iac/xl/data/6-gear.pdf=0A>=0A>you will see a photo showing the gear on the
ground with the marked for install flat side forward. If you look at all th
e other photos of the completed airplane, that happens to be the factory de
mo plane, you will see that the gear used to be installed with the flat sid
e to the rear. This had the effect of reducing the distance between the mai
n gear and the nose wheel and is supposed to make it easier to keep the nos
e off the ground when landing.=0A>=0A>--------=0A>W.R. "Gig" Giac
ona=0A>601XL Under Construction=0A>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N6
01WR=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http://forums.m
atronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249722#249722=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A
======================0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A
>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A
>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A
>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A
>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A
=0A=0A
Message 13
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jfowler120(at)verizon.net wrote:
> I talked with Zenith. They said that in our case with a Jabiru engine to leave
the "slanted side" forward as it is now on our airplane. "Straight side"
forward is for use with heavier engines (e.g. Continental) to assist in lifting
the nose for takeoff. The difference in fore and aft tire footprint is about
1 1/2 inches.
>
> Karl
>
Well I'm not going to disagree with Zenith but if it helps get the nose off the
ground it stands to reason that it will help keep the nose off the ground. The
problem you described is a nose heavy condition. And there is nothing in the
build manual that says do it one way for Jabs and Rotax and the other way for
Vairs and Conts.
You might try some vortex generators on the Horz. Stabilizer. Give a little more
umph to the tail.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249884#249884
Message 14
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All-
Mind you, I probably don't have 10 rivnuts in my whole airframe,
(the majority of them in fiberglass components), but I haven't had any
trouble. The Loctite is a good idea, and I think I'll go back and put a
dab on for GP. As far as cutting the notch, I used a moldmaker's file.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: T. Graziano
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Rivnuts
I installed all of my rivnuts with red loctite under the head, and
shank near the head. No problems to date.
Tony Graziano
XL/Jab 505 hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Pagan
To: Zenith List ; zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:03 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Rivnuts
Hello all,
What are the pluses - minuses of using keyed vs. keyless
rivnuts. What is the difference?
I'm assuming (I know thats dangerous) that the "keyed" rivnuts
simply have a protruding spot that helps in avoiding the rivnut from
spinning in it's hole.
Bill Pagan
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) |
James,
I'm at the same place you are with my 650.
The Side Skin forward of the Spar hangs down past the Floor. I'm hoping that there
is still clearance for the pre drilled holes.
Aft of the Spar the skin lines up fine along the bottom.
I had to play with the upper Longerons a bit and make sure you have the width between
the Longerons correct. The Seat back top piece should be in place as well
as the Instrument Panel. Also I had to add 5 mm to the 19 mm shim that sits
under the Rear Skin forward corner and then re-level everything. It took two
days of screwing around to tweak this setup. And I had to add weight to the Gear
Channel.
Chuck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249905#249905
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) |
James,
I had exactly this same problem about two months ago with my pre-drilled holes
too low on the bottom, among other minor pre-cut and drilled areas on the side
skin. Roger at Zenith said he had heard of similar problems and they sent me,
free of charge, two new side skins without any pre-drilled holes, only the air
intake cutout. This meant I had to lay out all my own hole patterns and cutouts
for the wing spar but was certainly worth it because everything now fits
perfectly. If you have any further questions, please feel free to call me at
913-856-4900 after 6PM or 913-915-1989 during the day.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249906#249906
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