Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:39 AM - Re: Another Z-BAGing (fritz)
2. 05:40 AM - Re: Another Z-BAGing (Clyde Barcus)
3. 06:08 AM - Re: Another Z-BAGing (fritz)
4. 06:18 AM - Re: Another Z-BAGing (Jay Maynard)
5. 06:21 AM - Re: FW: Another Z-BAGing (Jay Maynard)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Another Z-BAGing |
what about the 10 dead folks???? they might not share your opinion.
Yes, Experimental is Experimental ! Known problems are known problems
!!!!! What is wrong with building the safest airplane we can?
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Geese
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 10:34 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Another Z-BAGing
I've built a Zenair CH640 over the last 7 years and have a DAR
scheduled to inspect it the first week of August. He called tonight to
become more familiar with the type of Zenith that he'll be inspecting.
The conversation turned into "I'm glad it's not a 601 and all the
problems they have" referring to the unproven and completely bogus
aileron flutter issue. Like other Zenith designs the 640 does not have
massed balance ailerons. I'm not sure what I'll be dealing with when
the DAR realizes this. You Z-BAGers have cast doubt on ALL Zenith
designs with your un-founded and irresponsible witch hunt. What part of
"Experimental" don't guys understand. IMHO you have NO business
building, flying, or maintaining anything experimental. If you want the
likes of the FAA and NTSB regulating everything about your aircraft I
suggest you get something certified and leave the rest of us alone. Has
anyone noticed that these accidents started when the LSA stuff hit the
books and many inactive, un-proficient pilots began flying again after
many years. Gig, Juan, Scott and others, I now feel your pain.
Doug Geese
CH640 (Ready for Inspection, Z-BAGed)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Another Z-BAGing |
Hi Doug
I agree too much has been said, however there has not been a fatal
accident in a while now, perhaps it is possible the attention has caused
Pilots to stay within design limits and do a better job maintaining
their plane. We will never know, but it is possible lives have been
saved because of the attention. I also believe Chris Heinz will be
making a few changes that will add to the margin of safety to help
compensate for those that have poor piloting skills. That said, I do
wish the more radical people on this list would give it a rest.
Regards:
Clyde
601 XL
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Geese
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:34 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Another Z-BAGing
I've built a Zenair CH640 over the last 7 years and have a DAR
scheduled to inspect it the first week of August. He called tonight to
become more familiar with the type of Zenith that he'll be inspecting.
The conversation turned into "I'm glad it's not a 601 and all the
problems they have" referring to the unproven and completely bogus
aileron flutter issue. Like other Zenith designs the 640 does not have
massed balance ailerons. I'm not sure what I'll be dealing with when
the DAR realizes this. You Z-BAGers have cast doubt on ALL Zenith
designs with your un-founded and irresponsible witch hunt. What part of
"Experimental" don't guys understand. IMHO you have NO business
building, flying, or maintaining anything experimental. If you want the
likes of the FAA and NTSB regulating everything about your aircraft I
suggest you get something certified and leave the rest of us alone. Has
anyone noticed that these accidents started when the LSA stuff hit the
books and many inactive, un-proficient pilots began flying again after
many years. Gig, Juan, Scott and others, I now feel your pain.
Doug Geese
CH640 (Ready for Inspection, Z-BAGed)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Another Z-BAGing |
very well said--- I think the attention did save lives. Just because
someones gets killed in a plane crash doesn't mean they are a "poor" or
"inexperienced" piot. In reading a lot of the info--- it appears
a builder could have sat his cable tention correctly at a minimum
setting---- the cables starch during the first hours of flight, now they
are to loose and flutter appears.
You can't argue with the attitude in Europe----- yes the plane is safe
with correct cable tention--- but they want a system that does not blame
entirely on cable tention---- hence, I think you will see an "aileron
balance" system come in being for the 601 XL--------
why is this "hornets nest" being stirred up again?????????
----- Original Message -----
From: Clyde Barcus
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Another Z-BAGing
Hi Doug
I agree too much has been said, however there has not been a fatal
accident in a while now, perhaps it is possible the attention has caused
Pilots to stay within design limits and do a better job maintaining
their plane. We will never know, but it is possible lives have been
saved because of the attention. I also believe Chris Heinz will be
making a few changes that will add to the margin of safety to help
compensate for those that have poor piloting skills. That said, I do
wish the more radical people on this list would give it a rest.
Regards:
Clyde
601 XL
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Geese
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:34 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Another Z-BAGing
I've built a Zenair CH640 over the last 7 years and have a DAR
scheduled to inspect it the first week of August. He called tonight to
become more familiar with the type of Zenith that he'll be inspecting.
The conversation turned into "I'm glad it's not a 601 and all the
problems they have" referring to the unproven and completely bogus
aileron flutter issue. Like other Zenith designs the 640 does not have
massed balance ailerons. I'm not sure what I'll be dealing with when
the DAR realizes this. You Z-BAGers have cast doubt on ALL Zenith
designs with your un-founded and irresponsible witch hunt. What part of
"Experimental" don't guys understand. IMHO you have NO business
building, flying, or maintaining anything experimental. If you want the
likes of the FAA and NTSB regulating everything about your aircraft I
suggest you get something certified and leave the rest of us alone. Has
anyone noticed that these accidents started when the LSA stuff hit the
books and many inactive, un-proficient pilots began flying again after
many years. Gig, Juan, Scott and others, I now feel your pain.
Doug Geese
CH640 (Ready for Inspection, Z-BAGed)
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Another Z-BAGing |
On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 08:59:09AM -0400, fritz wrote:
> why is this "hornets nest" being stirred up again?????????
Because there are a few ...folks on this list who care more about the
reputation of their airplane than their safety, it seems to me.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Another Z-BAGing |
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:41:06PM -0400, Doug Geese wrote:
> I'm not sure what I'll be dealing with when the DAR realizes this.
How about being up front with the DAR about it, and discuss it with him
before he gets there? While you're at it, you can also discuss the TUHH GVT
results with him.
> You Z-BAGers have cast doubt on ALL Zenith designs with your un-founded
> and irresponsible witch hunt. What part of "Experimental" don't guys
> understand. IMHO you have NO business building, flying, or maintaining
> anything experimental.
Not all of us are flying experimentals, even if we are flying Zodiacs.
> If you want the likes of the FAA and NTSB regulating everything about your
> aircraft I suggest you get something certified and leave the rest of us
> alone.
If you want to destroy the world of experimental aircraft, go right on with
your cavalier attitude toward aviation safety.
I don't blame the fact that I had to wait a month and fly a few hundred
miles to take my CFI-SP checkride on ZBAG, even though the delay and trip
were because the original DPE backed out on me. I blame it on the justified
concern of people about being safe, and on Zenair for not responding to the
problem when it first came to light. If Zenair had done their job, there
would have been no need for ZBAG.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
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