---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/18/09: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:39 AM - Re: Another Z-BAGing (fritz) 2. 05:40 AM - Re: Another Z-BAGing (Clyde Barcus) 3. 06:08 AM - Re: Another Z-BAGing (fritz) 4. 06:18 AM - Re: Another Z-BAGing (Jay Maynard) 5. 06:21 AM - Re: FW: Another Z-BAGing (Jay Maynard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:51 AM PST US From: "fritz" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Another Z-BAGing what about the 10 dead folks???? they might not share your opinion. Yes, Experimental is Experimental ! Known problems are known problems !!!!! What is wrong with building the safest airplane we can? ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Geese To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 10:34 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Another Z-BAGing I've built a Zenair CH640 over the last 7 years and have a DAR scheduled to inspect it the first week of August. He called tonight to become more familiar with the type of Zenith that he'll be inspecting. The conversation turned into "I'm glad it's not a 601 and all the problems they have" referring to the unproven and completely bogus aileron flutter issue. Like other Zenith designs the 640 does not have massed balance ailerons. I'm not sure what I'll be dealing with when the DAR realizes this. You Z-BAGers have cast doubt on ALL Zenith designs with your un-founded and irresponsible witch hunt. What part of "Experimental" don't guys understand. IMHO you have NO business building, flying, or maintaining anything experimental. If you want the likes of the FAA and NTSB regulating everything about your aircraft I suggest you get something certified and leave the rest of us alone. Has anyone noticed that these accidents started when the LSA stuff hit the books and many inactive, un-proficient pilots began flying again after many years. Gig, Juan, Scott and others, I now feel your pain. Doug Geese CH640 (Ready for Inspection, Z-BAGed) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:30 AM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Another Z-BAGing Hi Doug I agree too much has been said, however there has not been a fatal accident in a while now, perhaps it is possible the attention has caused Pilots to stay within design limits and do a better job maintaining their plane. We will never know, but it is possible lives have been saved because of the attention. I also believe Chris Heinz will be making a few changes that will add to the margin of safety to help compensate for those that have poor piloting skills. That said, I do wish the more radical people on this list would give it a rest. Regards: Clyde 601 XL ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Geese To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:34 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Another Z-BAGing I've built a Zenair CH640 over the last 7 years and have a DAR scheduled to inspect it the first week of August. He called tonight to become more familiar with the type of Zenith that he'll be inspecting. The conversation turned into "I'm glad it's not a 601 and all the problems they have" referring to the unproven and completely bogus aileron flutter issue. Like other Zenith designs the 640 does not have massed balance ailerons. I'm not sure what I'll be dealing with when the DAR realizes this. You Z-BAGers have cast doubt on ALL Zenith designs with your un-founded and irresponsible witch hunt. What part of "Experimental" don't guys understand. IMHO you have NO business building, flying, or maintaining anything experimental. If you want the likes of the FAA and NTSB regulating everything about your aircraft I suggest you get something certified and leave the rest of us alone. Has anyone noticed that these accidents started when the LSA stuff hit the books and many inactive, un-proficient pilots began flying again after many years. Gig, Juan, Scott and others, I now feel your pain. Doug Geese CH640 (Ready for Inspection, Z-BAGed) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:21 AM PST US From: "fritz" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Another Z-BAGing very well said--- I think the attention did save lives. Just because someones gets killed in a plane crash doesn't mean they are a "poor" or "inexperienced" piot. In reading a lot of the info--- it appears a builder could have sat his cable tention correctly at a minimum setting---- the cables starch during the first hours of flight, now they are to loose and flutter appears. You can't argue with the attitude in Europe----- yes the plane is safe with correct cable tention--- but they want a system that does not blame entirely on cable tention---- hence, I think you will see an "aileron balance" system come in being for the 601 XL-------- why is this "hornets nest" being stirred up again????????? ----- Original Message ----- From: Clyde Barcus To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 8:39 AM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Another Z-BAGing Hi Doug I agree too much has been said, however there has not been a fatal accident in a while now, perhaps it is possible the attention has caused Pilots to stay within design limits and do a better job maintaining their plane. We will never know, but it is possible lives have been saved because of the attention. I also believe Chris Heinz will be making a few changes that will add to the margin of safety to help compensate for those that have poor piloting skills. That said, I do wish the more radical people on this list would give it a rest. Regards: Clyde 601 XL ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Geese To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:34 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Another Z-BAGing I've built a Zenair CH640 over the last 7 years and have a DAR scheduled to inspect it the first week of August. He called tonight to become more familiar with the type of Zenith that he'll be inspecting. The conversation turned into "I'm glad it's not a 601 and all the problems they have" referring to the unproven and completely bogus aileron flutter issue. Like other Zenith designs the 640 does not have massed balance ailerons. I'm not sure what I'll be dealing with when the DAR realizes this. You Z-BAGers have cast doubt on ALL Zenith designs with your un-founded and irresponsible witch hunt. What part of "Experimental" don't guys understand. IMHO you have NO business building, flying, or maintaining anything experimental. If you want the likes of the FAA and NTSB regulating everything about your aircraft I suggest you get something certified and leave the rest of us alone. Has anyone noticed that these accidents started when the LSA stuff hit the books and many inactive, un-proficient pilots began flying again after many years. Gig, Juan, Scott and others, I now feel your pain. Doug Geese CH640 (Ready for Inspection, Z-BAGed) href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:26 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Another Z-BAGing On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 08:59:09AM -0400, fritz wrote: > why is this "hornets nest" being stirred up again????????? Because there are a few ...folks on this list who care more about the reputation of their airplane than their safety, it seems to me. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:16 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FW: Another Z-BAGing On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:41:06PM -0400, Doug Geese wrote: > I'm not sure what I'll be dealing with when the DAR realizes this. How about being up front with the DAR about it, and discuss it with him before he gets there? While you're at it, you can also discuss the TUHH GVT results with him. > You Z-BAGers have cast doubt on ALL Zenith designs with your un-founded > and irresponsible witch hunt. What part of "Experimental" don't guys > understand. IMHO you have NO business building, flying, or maintaining > anything experimental. Not all of us are flying experimentals, even if we are flying Zodiacs. > If you want the likes of the FAA and NTSB regulating everything about your > aircraft I suggest you get something certified and leave the rest of us > alone. If you want to destroy the world of experimental aircraft, go right on with your cavalier attitude toward aviation safety. I don't blame the fact that I had to wait a month and fly a few hundred miles to take my CFI-SP checkride on ZBAG, even though the delay and trip were because the original DPE backed out on me. I blame it on the justified concern of people about being safe, and on Zenair for not responding to the problem when it first came to light. If Zenair had done their job, there would have been no need for ZBAG. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.