---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/26/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:55 PM - uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight (GBzodiflyer) 2. 02:11 PM - Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight (Jim Belcher) 3. 02:13 PM - Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight (LHusky@aol.com) 4. 02:29 PM - Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight (countzero) 5. 02:40 PM - Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight (Gig Giacona) 6. 02:48 PM - Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight (Paul Mulwitz) 7. 02:53 PM - Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight (jaybannist@cs.com) 8. 03:17 PM - Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight (KARL POLIFKA) 9. 03:19 PM - Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight (KARL POLIFKA) 10. 03:20 PM - Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight (Jim Belcher) 11. 04:42 PM - Re: Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight (Rick Lindstrom) 12. 08:07 PM - Re: Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight (Ron Pollock) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:08 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight From: "GBzodiflyer" 601 XL AIRCRAFT ARE CLEARED FOR FLIGHT IN THE UK WITH THE FOLLOWING MODIFICATIONS INCLUDED- 1, Aileron mass balance system. 2, Vertical stiffening of the carry through spar. 3, modified and less sensitive elevator trim modification. 4, Temporary max 0 fuel weight 494 kg until Canadian static load tests are known. :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259787#259787 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:51 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight On Wednesday 26 August 2009 15:54, GBzodiflyer wrote: > > 601 XL AIRCRAFT ARE CLEARED FOR FLIGHT IN THE UK WITH THE FOLLOWING > MODIFICATIONS INCLUDED- 1, Aileron mass balance system. > 2, Vertical stiffening of the carry through spar. > 3, modified and less sensitive elevator trim modification. > 4, Temporary max 0 fuel weight 494 kg until Canadian static load tests are > known. On the one hand, I'm happy that there is a path that will unground 601XLs in the UK. On the other, I have the uncomfortable feeling that this may be a little like trying to swat flying insects: it may not hit the actual problem(s), if any. We still do not appear to have a firm definition of the actual problem(s). ============================================= You can check on my aircraft construction progress at: http://www.mykitlog.com/santaigo ================================================ Jim B. Belcher BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science A&P/IA Instrument Rated Pilot General Radio Telephone Certificate Retired Aerospace Technical Manager ================================================ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:10 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight Anybody got their hands on these modifications yet? Larry Husky Madras, Oregon In a message dated 8/26/2009 1:56:37 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, thehighflyer@aol.com writes: --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "GBzodiflyer" 601 XL AIRCRAFT ARE CLEARED FOR FLIGHT IN THE UK WITH THE FOLLOWING MODIFICATIONS INCLUDED- 1, Aileron mass balance system. 2, Vertical stiffening of the carry through spar. 3, modified and less sensitive elevator trim modification. 4, Temporary max 0 fuel weight 494 kg until Canadian static load tests are known. :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259787#259787 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:29:14 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight From: "countzero" That is great news. Will there be an XL flying to the Sywell Revival rally? GBzodiflyer wrote: > 601 XL AIRCRAFT ARE CLEARED FOR FLIGHT IN THE UK WITH THE FOLLOWING MODIFICATIONS INCLUDED- > 1, Aileron mass balance system. > 2, Vertical stiffening of the carry through spar. > 3, modified and less sensitive elevator trim modification. > 4, Temporary max 0 fuel weight 494 kg until Canadian static load tests are known. > :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259800#259800 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:10 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight From: "Gig Giacona" Ready, Fire, Aim. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259802#259802 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:06 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight Hi Jim, While I believe you are correct, I am afraid this is as good as it will get. The FAA apparently has decided there really is no problem with the XL, so we can expect nothing more from them. Chris has promised release of the design changes when the situation in Europe reached a conclusion, so I guess we can now get the drawings. I just wrote an email to Sebastian asking for the drawings. When I get them, I will probably implement some or all of the changes on my XL and proceed into flight test. My position since the NTSB letter was released was that my plane would be grounded until their primary complaints were resolved - aileron mass balance and a control improvement to eliminate the response problem. Paul XL awaiting design changes At 02:11 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: >On the one hand, I'm happy that there is a path that will unground 601XLs in >the UK. > >On the other, I have the uncomfortable feeling that this may be a little like >trying to swat flying insects: it may not hit the actual problem(s), if any. >We still do not appear to have a firm definition of the actual problem(s). ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:53:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight From: jaybannist@cs.com This is like - A guy comes into the hospital with a sore leg, lacerations and blurry vision.? Going only by what other people have told him was wrong, they set and cast his broken leg, clean, suture and bandage his lacerations and remove the cataracts and insert new lenses.? Only his leg wasn't broken, it was just sprained.? His lacerations needed only band-aids.? He didn't have cataracts, and simply needed corrective glasses. The guy goes home satisfied, but later dies of undiagnosed cancer.? Is this analogous ? Jay Bannister Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Jim Belcher Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 4:11 pm Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight On Wednesday 26 August 2009 15:54, GBzodiflyer wrote: > > 601 XL AIRCRAFT ARE CLEARED FOR FLIGHT IN THE UK WITH THE FOLLOWING > MODIFICATIONS INCLUDED- 1, Aileron mass balance system. > 2, Vertical stiffening of the carry through spar. > 3, modified and less sensitive elevator trim modification. > 4, Temporary max 0 fuel weight 494 kg until Canadian static load tests are > known. On the one hand, I'm happy that there is a path that will unground 601XLs in the UK. On the other, I have the uncomfortable feeling that this may be a little like trying to swat flying insects: it may not hit the actual problem(s), if any. We still do not appear to have a firm definition of the actual problem(s). ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:02 PM PST US From: "KARL POLIFKA" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight Paul, The control response "problem", given the posts I've seen, resides in the h and on the stick. This is a kabuki dance. Karl ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:44 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight Hi Jim, While I believe you are correct, I am afraid this is as good as it will get. The FAA apparently has decided there really is no problem with the XL, so we can expect nothing more from them. Chris has promised release of the design changes when the situation in Europe reached a conclusion, so I guess we can now get the drawings. I just wrote an email to Sebastian asking for the drawings. When I get them, I will probably implement some or all of the changes on my XL and proceed into flight test. My position since the NTSB letter was released was that my plane would be grounded until their primary complaints were resolved - aileron mass balance and a control improvement to eliminate the response problem. Paul XL awaiting design changes At 02:11 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: >On the one hand, I'm happy that there is a path that will unground 601XL s in >the UK. > >On the other, I have the uncomfortable feeling that this may be a little like >trying to swat flying insects: it may not hit the actual problem(s), if any. >We still do not appear to have a firm definition of the actual problem(s ). =========== =========== =========== =========== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:43 PM PST US From: "KARL POLIFKA" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight Agree ----- Original Message ----- From: jaybannist@cs.com To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight This is like - A guy comes into the hospital with a sore leg, lacerations and blurry vision. Going only by what other people have told him was wron g, they set and cast his broken leg, clean, suture and bandage his lacerati ons and remove the cataracts and insert new lenses. Only his leg wasn't br oken, it was just sprained. His lacerations needed only band-aids. He did n't have cataracts, and simply needed corrective glasses. The guy goes home satisfied, but later dies of undiagnosed cancer. Is this analogous ? Jay Bannister Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Jim Belcher To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 4:11 pm Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight > On Wednesday 26 August 2009 15:54, GBzodiflyer wrote: > > > 601 XL AIRCRAFT ARE CLEARED FOR FLIGHT IN THE UK WITH THE FOLLOWING > MODIFICATIONS INCLUDED- 1, Aileron mass balance system. > 2, Vertical stiffening of the carry through spar. > 3, modified and less sensitive elevator trim modification. > 4, Temporary max 0 fuel weight 494 kg until Canadian static load tests ar e > known. On the one hand, I'm happy that there is a path that will unground 601XLs i n the UK. On the other, I have the uncomfortable feeling that this may be a little li ke trying to swat flying insects: it may not hit the actual problem(s), if any We still do not appear to have a firm definition of the actual problem(s). ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:37 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight On Wednesday 26 August 2009 16:53, jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > This is like - A guy comes into the hospital with a sore leg, lacerations > and blurry vision.? Going only by what other people have told him was > wrong, they set and cast his broken leg, clean, suture and bandage his > lacerations and remove the cataracts and insert new lenses.? Only his leg > wasn't broken, it was just sprained.? His lacerations needed only > band-aids.? He didn't have cataracts, and simply needed corrective glasses. > The guy goes home satisfied, but later dies of undiagnosed cancer.? Is > this analogous ? ...or possibly, by making to corrections to things which may not have been wrong in the first place, one of the corrections causes new problems. We really really need to do something to appease people, even if it is wrong. -- ============================================ Do not archive. ============================================ Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA Retired aerospace technical manager ============================================ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:00 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight Exactly. But, I think this is really the next best thing to finding out the airplane is bulletproof, no matter what the pilot does to it in flight or in the hangar. (Not in THIS lifetime!) We in the US of A have the luxury of implementing some, none, or all of the recommended "fixes" in our E-AB Zodies. If the spar stiffening results in a G or two of extra margin, I'll consider that one. Beyond that, who knows? My personal preference is not to monkey with the control system, but just maintain cable tensions. Well, they had to come up with SOMETHING, whether or not a real need was ever proven. It could've been a lot worse. Rick Lindstrom N42KP -----Original Message----- >From: Gig Giacona >Sent: Aug 26, 2009 5:40 PM >To: zenith601-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight > > >Ready, Fire, Aim. > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259802#259802 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:59 PM PST US From: Ron Pollock Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Re: uk 601 xl aircraft cleared for flight ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.