---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/12/09: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:30 AM - Cof G - weight and balance (chris Sinfield) 2. 06:35 AM - Re: fundamental question (Walter Carey) 3. 07:45 AM - Re: Cof G - weight and balance (Bryan Martin) 4. 08:15 AM - Re: fundamental question (Bill Naumuk) 5. 11:26 AM - 601 HD Aileron Fitting, Right wing installed-Photo Request (MHerder) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Cof G - weight and balance From: "chris Sinfield" OK I am thinking of the C of G movement aft on the envelope Why does the fwd line move aft of 18% when above 1080lb up to 23.3% at 1320lb? what causes that? Chris.. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262687#262687 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:15 AM PST US From: Walter Carey Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: fundamental question I third this recommendation. Try to prevent the air gun from bouncing and l eaving a mark or dent. I hold the gun in my right hand and use my left hand to hold the pulling head of the gun on the rivet head and dampen the unavo idable bounce of the gun when you pull the trigger. You'll get the idea aft er a few pulled rivets. I average about a second per pull. You're going to have somewhat of a ragged edge where the stem breaks off because you're bas ically pulling apart the steel stem at the weakest point just below the riv et head. - Walt Carey in Dayton 601XL w/Jab 3300A. - --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Bill Naumuk wrote: From: Bill Naumuk Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: fundamental question I second this recommendation. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ---Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:11 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: fundamental question net> > > If you set the pressure at the tank and have a long length of hose or- a small diameter hose, the pressure may drop quite a bit at the gun.- It shouldn't take much more than a second or so to set a rivet. I- would sug gest you adjust the pressure to get a clean break in about a- second > > On Sep 11, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Lee Steensland wrote: > land.net >> > >> >> Guys, >> >> I have been building for a little while now and I have something- that has been nagging me for a while now. >> >> I noticed that the recommended pressure zenith suggests for pulling- A 5 and A4 rivets seems a little low to my riveter.- If I set it to- thos e values, it won't break the stem off. >> >> So I turn up the pressure a little until I can get it to break. So I gue ss my question is, how long from the time you squeeze the trigger until the stem breaks are people experiencing. >> >> I can wait 20 seconds down to almost instantly. When they break off inst antly I get oddly shaped ends, so obviously that isn't correct. >> >> What say you, netizens? > > > > -- Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. > > > > > > > > le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:22 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Cof G - weight and balance Probably because you might not have enough margin in elevator authority in the region forward of that line. The higher the weight and more forward the CG, the more elevator is needed to keep the nose up. On Sep 12, 2009, at 6:27 AM, chris Sinfield wrote: > > > > OK > I am thinking of the C of G movement aft on the envelope > > Why does the fwd line move aft of 18% when above 1080lb up to 23.3% > at 1320lb? what causes that? > > Chris.. > > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:08 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: fundamental question Oddly, I tried trimming this post and it won't allow me to. Oh, well. I started my project with a Zenith hand puller and the "Jump" was so bad I had to hold a cardboard mask around the rivet to protect the surface underneath. When the riveter wore out I went to an HF air gun and was really worried about the jump, but there was none to speak of. Perfectly set rivets 99% of the time- I might have to drill and reset 1 out of a hundred. I don't know if that's due to the construction of the HF riveter or my overall setup. I have a 20gal 5hp compressor, good quality 50' hose, and run 90psi at the secondary regulator. That's not to say the HF puller is perfect- they have two bad habits. One is a leak that develops in the trigger mechanism that reverses the action, spitting out oil rather than pulling the rivet. The HF comes with a full set of replacement gaskets and nose jaws, but I've never figured out how to fix the problem. If anyone knows how, I have one that has this malady and would appreciate hearing from you. The second is related to grip- either the puller doesn't grab the rivet or won't let go of it. The HF comes with a wrench that has a template for nosepiece adjustment, but I found that is just a starting point. You might have to adjust 1/16" from the template mark either way depending on how the puller is acting. DON'T THROW TOMATOS IF I'M WRONG, but I think you rotate the nosepiece assembly counterclockwise if the puller won't let go of the rivet. Actually, you CAN throw tomatos as long as you also throw the lettuce and a bottle of blue cheese dressing to make a salad. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Carey To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: fundamental question I third this recommendation. Try to prevent the air gun from bouncing and leaving a mark or dent. I hold the gun in my right hand and use my left hand to hold the pulling head of the gun on the rivet head and dampen the unavoidable bounce of the gun when you pull the trigger. You'll get the idea after a few pulled rivets. I average about a second per pull. You're going to have somewhat of a ragged edge where the stem breaks off because you're basically pulling apart the steel stem at the weakest point just below the rivet head. Walt Carey in Dayton 601XL w/Jab 3300A. --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Bill Naumuk wrote: From: Bill Naumuk Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: fundamental question To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 9:29 PM I second this recommendation. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" To: Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:11 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: fundamental question > > If you set the pressure at the tank and have a long length of hose or a small diameter hose, the pressure may drop quite a bit at the gun. It shouldn't take much more than a second or so to set a rivet. I would suggest you adjust the pressure to get a clean break in about a second > > On Sep 11, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Lee Steensland wrote: > > > >> >> Guys, >> >> I have been building for a little while now and I have something that has been nagging me for a while now. >> >> I noticed that the recommended pressure zenith suggests for pulling A5 and A4 rivets seems a little low to my riveter. If I set it to those values, it won't break the stem off. >> >> So I turn up the pressure a little until I can get it to break. So I guess my question is, how long from the time you squeeze the trigger until the stem breaks are people experiencing. >> >> I can wait 20 seconds down to almost instantly. When they break off instantly I get oddly shaped ends, so obviously that isn't correct. >> >> What say you, netizens? > > > > -- Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, > RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. > do not archive. > > > > > > > ?Zenith601-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith6bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -; -Matt Dralle, List Admin========= ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:03 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: 601 HD Aileron Fitting, Right wing installed-Photo Request From: "MHerder" Im looking for some help with the interface between the aileron and the center section on my HD. I am in the process of fitting up my wings, and have my right wing bolted up. Then I went to put my aileron on and found that it didn't fit, it was approximately 15 mm too long to fit between the center section trailing edge and the outboard trailing edge. After looking at the plans a little further it appears that I should have waited until the wing was installed before I installed center section trailing edge fairing (6e 1-1 if I recall correctly). The drawings poorly illustrate that the aileron aligns with the top skin which I now believe not to be the case. Yes my aileron is exactly 2400 mm long. Can someone please send me a photos from the top, rear, and bottom of this tricky interface. THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR HELP!!! Did anyone else have trouble with this??? -------- One Rivet at a Time! 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