Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:39 AM - Removing those &()^^)^%$ paper part number stickers (Jim Belcher)
2. 09:42 AM - Re: Removing those &()^^)^%$ paper part number stickers (n85ae)
3. 09:53 AM - Re: Removing those &()^^)^%$ paper part number stickers (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 11:15 AM - Aileron Servo Boost? (Rexwinkle)
5. 11:42 AM - Re: Aileron Servo Boost? (Paul Mulwitz)
6. 12:14 PM - Re: Aileron Servo Boost? concentric bellcranks (fritz)
7. 01:18 PM - Re: Zenith650-List: Removing those &()^^)^%$ paper part number stickers (Jim Belcher)
8. 01:20 PM - Re: Aileron Servo Boost? (KARL POLIFKA)
9. 01:20 PM - Re: Aileron Servo Boost? concentric bellcranks (Paul Mulwitz)
10. 03:19 PM - Re: Aileron Servo Boost? concentric bellcranks (fritz)
11. 04:26 PM - Re:Aileron Servo Boost? concentric bellcranks (MaxNr@aol.com)
12. 04:48 PM - Re:Removing those &()^^)^%$ paper part number stickers (MaxNr@aol.com)
13. 05:24 PM - Re: Re:Removing those &()^^)^%$ paper part number stickers (jaybannist@cs.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Removing those &()^^)^%$ paper part number stickers |
I may be the only person who finds those little paper part number stickers on
Zenith parts particularly annoying. Sure, I want to know what the part number
is, but these little beasts attract dirt and grease, and don't like to come
off cleanly.
In case I'm not the only person, I have posted the method I'm using to remove
the paper stickers:
http://www.anemicaardvark.com/Z601XL/
This method removes them with relative ease, and even gets rid of the residue
left by the adhesive.
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
Happiness is a belt-fed weapon
============================================
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Removing those &()^^)^%$ paper part number stickers |
I squirt them with spray on goof off, wait a couple minutes and they peel
right off with no effort. It absorbs right through the label and melts the glue.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263333#263333
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Removing those &()^^)^%$ paper part number stickers |
Hi Jim,
I soak a small piece of a shop rag with paint thinner (Lacquer
thinner works well) by holding the rag against the open can and
shaking it a little and lay it on the label for a minute or so. The
label gets soaked through and peels right off with the glue. Final
clean up, if needed, is just a wipe with the thinner soaked rag.
Paul
XL awaiting engineering changes
At 09:32 AM 9/16/2009, you wrote:
Message 4
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| Subject: | Aileron Servo Boost? |
I have heard that aileron stick forces can be high in the 601XL especially while
coming out of left turns. I have been told that you can duplicate the trim tab
that is installed on the left aileron and install it on the right aileron as
a servo boost tab to reduce the aileron stick force needed. Has anyone else
had high aileron stick forces? Does anyone have any suggestions about an aileron
servo boost tab?
Thanks,
Scott
601XL S/N: 6-7391
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263356#263356
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Servo Boost? |
Hi Scott,
I only have a little time in two different Zodiac XLs, so I might not
really understand the situation. That said, I think there is a
misunderstanding here about stick forces. The XL is very responsive
to force applied to the stick in roll performance. The thing that
bothers some people, particularly aviation magazine article writers,
is the stick doesn't move much in response to the force applied -
just the whole airplane moves.
This could be described as a lack of control harmony. In my opinion,
control harmony is lacking in most airplane designs and doesn't
really play any role either positive or negative in the airplane's
actual performance. It is just a pilot "Feel" thing that is normally
forgotten after a few hours flying any particular design. For
example, The Cessna-182 is incredibly heavy in pitch control and yet
this is the second most popular plane in the history of aviation.
I think the idea of adding "Power" to the aileron controls would be
dangerous in this plane. If you really want to adjust the control
harmony, I think the way to do it would be to reduce the size of the
ailerons. Just to be clear, I do not recommend doing this.
Paul
XL awaiting engineering changes
At 11:15 AM 9/16/2009, you wrote:
>I have heard that aileron stick forces can be high in the 601XL
>especially while coming out of left turns. I have been told that you
>can duplicate the trim tab that is installed on the left aileron and
>install it on the right aileron as a servo boost tab to reduce the
>aileron stick force needed. Has anyone else had high aileron stick
>forces? Does anyone have any suggestions about an aileron servo boost tab?
>Thanks,
>Scott
>601XL S/N: 6-7391
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Servo Boost? concentric bellcranks |
don't know anything about this--- just wondering "what if the aileron
bellcrank was eccentric instead of concentric"???? I would like to
learn ----- why do some airplanes have eccentric aileron belcranks and some
have concentric aileron bellcranks. Please don't "flame"---- just
wondering.
Fritz---- do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rexwinkle" <scottrexwinkle@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:15 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Aileron Servo Boost?
> <scottrexwinkle@yahoo.com>
>
> I have heard that aileron stick forces can be high in the 601XL especially
> while coming out of left turns. I have been told that you can duplicate
> the trim tab that is installed on the left aileron and install it on the
> right aileron as a servo boost tab to reduce the aileron stick force
> needed. Has anyone else had high aileron stick forces? Does anyone have
> any suggestions about an aileron servo boost tab?
> Thanks,
> Scott
> 601XL S/N: 6-7391
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263356#263356
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith650-List: Removing those &()^^)^%$ paper part |
number stickers
On Wednesday 16 September 2009 12:54, Craig Payne wrote:
> --> Zenith650-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
> <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> Just do what ZAC does in the quick-build-kits: leave them on and build them
> into the plane :-)
>
>
I wouldn't personally do this in my aircraft, for several reasons:
1. Foreign Object Damage (FOD). The adhesive on the stickers will eventually
release, and the sticker will fall off. When it does, it can jam controls and
cause similar problems.
2. The adhesive on the sticker attracts dirt and other trash. It can
contribute to corrosion, some of it in areas that aren't visible.
3. Weight. An individual sticker doesn't weigh much, but all the stickers in
the airplane weigh something.
4. They (in my view) look tacky, no pun intended.
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
Happiness is a belt-fed weapon
============================================
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Servo Boost? |
We have 270 hours on our 601XL. I agree completely with Paul. The airplan
e really flies just fine -- don't mess with it! Every airplane is differen
t and, as Paul says, you'll quickly adjust to this one. I'd say 15 minutes
ought to be enough.
Karl Polifka
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron Servo Boost?
Hi Scott,
I only have a little time in two different Zodiac XLs, so I might not
really understand the situation. That said, I think there is a
misunderstanding here about stick forces. The XL is very responsive
to force applied to the stick in roll performance. The thing that
bothers some people, particularly aviation magazine article writers,
is the stick doesn't move much in response to the force applied -
just the whole airplane moves.
This could be described as a lack of control harmony. In my opinion,
control harmony is lacking in most airplane designs and doesn't
really play any role either positive or negative in the airplane's
actual performance. It is just a pilot "Feel" thing that is normally
forgotten after a few hours flying any particular design. For
example, The Cessna-182 is incredibly heavy in pitch control and yet
this is the second most popular plane in the history of aviation.
I think the idea of adding "Power" to the aileron controls would be
dangerous in this plane. If you really want to adjust the control
harmony, I think the way to do it would be to reduce the size of the
ailerons. Just to be clear, I do not recommend doing this.
Paul
XL awaiting engineering changes
At 11:15 AM 9/16/2009, you wrote:
>I have heard that aileron stick forces can be high in the 601XL
>especially while coming out of left turns. I have been told that you
>can duplicate the trim tab that is installed on the left aileron and
>install it on the right aileron as a servo boost tab to reduce the
>aileron stick force needed. Has anyone else had high aileron stick
>forces? Does anyone have any suggestions about an aileron servo boost ta
b?
>Thanks,
>Scott
>601XL S/N: 6-7391
===========
===========
===========
===========
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Servo Boost? concentric bellcranks |
Hi Fritz,
I think the eccentric aileron bellcrank design is an attempt to
reduce adverse yaw in turns.
Paul
XL awaiting engineering changes
At 12:04 PM 9/16/2009, you wrote:
>don't know anything about this--- just wondering "what if the
>aileron bellcrank was eccentric instead of concentric"???? I would
>like to learn ----- why do some airplanes have eccentric aileron
>belcranks and some have concentric aileron bellcranks. Please
>don't "flame"---- just wondering.
>
>Fritz---- do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Servo Boost? concentric bellcranks |
thank you
Fritz do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron Servo Boost? concentric bellcranks
>
> Hi Fritz,
>
> I think the eccentric aileron bellcrank design is an attempt to
> reduce adverse yaw in turns.
>
> Paul
> XL awaiting engineering changes
>
>
> At 12:04 PM 9/16/2009, you wrote:
>>don't know anything about this--- just wondering "what if the
>>aileron bellcrank was eccentric instead of concentric"???? I would
>>like to learn ----- why do some airplanes have eccentric aileron
>>belcranks and some have concentric aileron bellcranks. Please
>>don't "flame"---- just wondering.
>>
>>Fritz---- do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re:Aileron Servo Boost? concentric bellcranks |
That's how you make differential ailerons. More up range than down. A
Zenith is a straight 11.5 deg up and 11.5 down. If you like the handling and
there is not too much adverse yaw, you should leave it alone. Some designers
make it so you can bank without rudder input and they mount the bellcrank aft
end more outboard, fwd end more inboard. Sketch it out with full control
throws and it will make sense to you. Make a paper mock up with pins. They
sometime rake the aileron horn fwd a little and that has the same effect. Or
maybe its raked aft, I forget.
Good question.
Bob Dingley
601XL 6-6791
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re:Removing those &()^^)^%$ paper part number stickers |
WD-40 is used by some to remove bumper stickers with little health effects.
On the other hand, MEK is absorbed through the skin, goes straight to the
liver and kidneys were it has a half life of 1,000 years.
Bob Dingley
601XL 6-6791 Do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re:Removing those &()^^)^%$ paper part number stickers |
Hands down the best thing I've found to remove the labels is called "Goof Off".?
It comes in a spray can or a squirt can.? I went through two of the squirt
cans during my build.? Saturate the label, let it set for a minute and it peels
right off.? A shop towel takes off the sticky residue and the left-over solution.?
Jay Bannister?
-----Original Message-----
From: MaxNr@aol.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 16, 2009 6:33 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re:Removing those &()^^)^%$ paper part number stickers
WD-40 is used by some to remove bumper stickers with little health effects. On
the other hand, MEK is absorbed through the skin, goes straight to the liver and
kidneys were it has a half life of 1,000 years.
Bob Dingley
601XL 6-6791?? Do not archive
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