---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/21/09: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:18 AM - Re: throttle set-up (DaveG601XL) 2. 12:49 PM - Re: throttle set-up (Gary Gower) 3. 01:04 PM - Re: throttle set-up (Jim Belcher) 4. 01:53 PM - Re: throttle set-up () 5. 03:41 PM - Re: throttle set-up (jaybannist@cs.com) 6. 04:55 PM - Re: throttle set-up (Jim Belcher) 7. 05:19 PM - A bloody safety note for annual inspection (LarryMcFarland) 8. 05:25 PM - Re: A bloody safety note for annual inspection (LHusky@aol.com) 9. 05:28 PM - Re: A bloody safety note for annual inspection (Jim Belcher) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:11 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: throttle set-up From: "DaveG601XL" Geoff, I installed the Jabiru FWF supplied dual throttle system as intended by Jabiru. Initially it did have a lot of inherent friction and hysteresis. I worked at reducing friction at all the movement points. I put doublers on the instrument panel and firewall where the throttle cable passes through to eliminate flexing. I also pre-bent the solid throttle wire where it passes through the firewall and flared up the opening that the wire passes through. This and some teflon lube has resulted in very satisfactory operation. I worked on it quite a bit and, admittedly at one point, was near to scrapping the system outright, but persistence paid off. I has been operating very well in flight for over a year and 100+ hours now. Good luck on yours, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL/Jabiru 3300 First flight 7/24/08 100 hours and climbing! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264091#264091 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:44 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: throttle set-up Is an international safety std...- All pilots in the world react instictl y to-pull to idle the engine and push to power up... - Other will be very dangerous... - Saludos Gary Gower. - - --- On Sat, 9/19/09, Bryan Martin wrote: From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: throttle set-up t> The throttles should be push to open. The Bing carbs are spring loaded to o pen throttle and you have to pull against the springs to close the throttle s. You should try to keep all the major systems as standard as practical. T here's no good reason not to set the throttles up for push to open. On Sep 19, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Terry Turnquist wrote: > It looks like the dual throttle set up shown on 6-E-5 is a "pull " system . Does anyone have such a set up and has it caused any problems as opposed to the standard push throttle? I realize a person can get used to anything, but this seems counter intuitive. Yes, No? > --Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:59 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: throttle set-up On Monday 21 September 2009 14:32, Gary Gower wrote: > Is an international safety std... All pilots in the world react instictly > topull to idle the engine and push to power up... > Other will be very dangerous... > It certainly should be made to work in the standard manner. However, I'm not aware of anything in the FARs which require this for an experimental aircraft. Those are the only standards which legally apply. I think you can legally build an aircraft in which "push" idles it, but it would be very foolish to do so. I'd personally refuse to fly an aiorcraft with the throttle wired backwards. ============================================ Do not archive. ============================================ Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA Retired aerospace technical manager Mathematics and alcohol do not mix. Do not drink and derive. ============================================ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:12 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: throttle set-up I dunnooooo, maybe it would be fun to have "push to close" throttles, and reverse the rudder and aileron cables. Make it a real customized plane..........If nothing else, nobody would ever steal it---successfully Paul R ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Belcher To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: throttle set-up > On Monday 21 September 2009 14:32, Gary Gower wrote: > Is an international safety std... All pilots in the world react instictly > to pull to idle the engine and push to power up... > Other will be very dangerous... > It certainly should be made to work in the standard manner. However, I'm not aware of anything in the FARs which require this for an experimental aircraft. Those are the only standards which legally apply. I think you can legally build an aircraft in which "push" idles it, but it would be very foolish to do so. I'd personally refuse to fly an aiorcraft with the throttle wired backwards. =================== Do not archive. =================== Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA Retired aerospace technical manager Mathematics and alcohol do not mix. Do not drink and derive. =================== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: throttle set-up From: jaybannist@cs.com I seem to recall reading that the WWII British war birds have a pull-to-go, push-to-stop throttle.? I think that airplanes we furnished for their use had to have the throttle action reversed.? I wouldn't want to fly just any airplane with that setup, but I think if I got a chance to fly a Spitfire, I wouldn't refuse because of the throttle setup. Jay Bannister -----Original Message----- From: Jim Belcher Sent: Mon, Sep 21, 2009 3:04 pm Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: throttle set-up On Monday 21 September 2009 14:32, Gary Gower wrote: > Is an international safety std...? All pilots in the world react instictly > to?pull to idle the engine and push to power up... > Other will be very dangerous... > ? It certainly should be made to work in the standard manner. However, I'm not aware of anything in the FARs which require this for an experimental aircraft. Those are the only standards which legally apply. I think you can legally build an aircraft in which "push" idles it, but it would be very foolish to do so. I'd personally refuse to fly an aiorcraft with the throttle wired backwards. ============================================ Do not archive. ============================================ Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA Retired aerospace technical manager Mathematics and alcohol do not mix. Do not drink and derive. ============================================ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:14 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: throttle set-up On Monday 21 September 2009 17:27, jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > I seem to recall reading that the WWII British war birds have a > pull-to-go, push-to-stop throttle.? I think that airplanes we furnished for > their use had to have the throttle action reversed.? I wouldn't want to fly > just any airplane with that setup, but I think if I got a chance to fly a > Spitfire, I wouldn't refuse because of the throttle setup. > Jay, I suppose I'm a devout coward, but I would probably refuse. I know darned well I'd forget, and jam the throttle in at a critical time. But that's me. -- ============================================ Do not archive. ============================================ Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA Retired aerospace technical manager Mathematics and alcohol do not mix. Do not drink and derive. ============================================ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:46 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Zenith601-List: A bloody safety note for annual inspection Hi Guys, I nearly qualified for the Darwin award today while removing my propeller. Id put wrenches on both ends of the prop bolts and had my head in the path of the propeller struggling with the torqued nuts on the back face. As each nut was loosened, the prop rotated backward a few degrees toward me. On the 5^th bolt, I was so focused that I pulled on the wrench with my chin tucked in and the prop, only two feet away, moved a few more degrees and the compression released to spin the rear edge of the prop onto the side of my skull. The force made a 5-inch mark on the side of my head and the centerfold in my ear was cut clear through. Wrenches and I hit the floor and then I walked from the hangar bleeding pretty good. An airport employee saw my bloody towel in hand and called the airport emergency team and soon medics in fire trucks arrived to offer assistance. It could have been worse, but my mistake was not removing the spark plugs before removing prop bolts. No ignition was involved, but with a re-drive reduction of 2 to1, the force released was a surprise and could well have been deadly. I signed a refusal of medical care as my ear had quit bleeding and was very appreciative of their arriving so quickly. They say confession is good for the soul and that its never too late to learn something, Larry McFarland 601HDS Stratus Subaru at www.macsmachine.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:14 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: A bloody safety note for annual inspection Glad your alright Larry. I just put that little note down on my list. Be safe and quit using your head so much! LOL! Larry Husky Madras, Oregon 601/XL / Corvair In a message dated 9/21/2009 5:20:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, larry@macsmachine.com writes: --> Zenith601-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Hi Guys, I nearly qualified for the Darwin award today while removing my propeller. I=99d put wrenches on both ends of the prop bolts and ha d my head in the path of the propeller struggling with the torqued nuts on the back face. As each nut was loosened, the prop rotated backward a few degrees toward me. On the 5^th bolt, I was so focused that I pulled on the wrench with my chin tucked in and the prop, only two feet away, moved a few more degrees and the compression released to spin the rear edge of the prop onto the side of my skull. The force made a 5-inch mark on the side of my head and the centerfold in my ear was cut clear through .. Wrenches and I hit the floor and then I walked from the hangar bleeding pretty good. An airport employee saw my bloody towel in hand and called the airport emergency team and soon medics in fire trucks arrived to offer assistance. It could have been worse, but my mistake was not removing the spark plugs before removing prop bolts. No ignition was involved, but with a re-drive reduction of 2 to1, the force released was a surprise and could well have been deadly. I signed a refusal of medical care as my ear had quit bleeding and was very appreciative of their arriving so quickly. They say confession is good for the soul and that it=99s never too late to learn something, Larry McFarland 601HDS Stratus Subaru at www.macsmachine.com ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:04 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: A bloody safety note for annual inspection Don't feel too bad. I saw someone else do the same thing with a 6 cyl Lycoming in the 1980s. The result was similar: iot scared us all silly, but didn't do any permanent damage. On Monday 21 September 2009 18:53, LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > Hi Guys, > I nearly qualified for the Darwin award today while removing my > propeller. Id put wrenches on both ends of the prop bolts and had my > head in the path of the propeller struggling with the torqued nuts on > the back face. As each nut was loosened, the prop rotated backward a few > degrees toward me. On the 5^th bolt, I was so focused that I pulled on > the wrench with my chin tucked in and the prop, only two feet away, > moved a few more degrees and the compression released to spin the rear > edge of the prop onto the side of my skull. The force made a 5-inch mark > on the side of my head and the centerfold in my ear was cut clear through. > > Wrenches and I hit the floor and then I walked from the hangar bleeding > pretty good. An airport employee saw my bloody towel in hand and called > the airport emergency team and soon medics in fire trucks arrived to > offer assistance. It could have been worse, but my mistake was not > removing the spark plugs before removing prop bolts. No ignition was > involved, but with a re-drive reduction of 2 to1, the force released was > a surprise and could well have been deadly. > > I signed a refusal of medical care as my ear had quit bleeding and was > very appreciative of their arriving so quickly. > > They say confession is good for the soul and that its never too late to > learn something, > > > Larry McFarland 601HDS Stratus Subaru at www.macsmachine.com > > -- ============================================ Do not archive. ============================================ Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA Retired aerospace technical manager Mathematics and alcohol do not mix. Do not drink and derive. ============================================ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.