Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:35 AM - Weights and Balances (Ianrat)
2. 02:49 AM - Re: Weights and Balances (Peter W Johnson)
3. 06:47 AM - Re: Weights and Balances (jaybannist@cs.com)
4. 07:11 AM - Re: Weights and Balances (Paul Mulwitz)
5. 08:17 AM - Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) (aussiech650)
6. 09:50 AM - Flange on seat bottom (Jim Belcher)
7. 10:31 AM - Re: Weights and Balances (Bryan Martin)
8. 10:31 AM - Re: Flange on seat bottom (Alan and Brenda)
9. 10:37 AM - Re: Futter Mods in UK (Alan and Brenda)
10. 10:47 AM - Re: Flange on seat bottom (Jim Belcher)
11. 10:51 AM - Re: Futter Mods in UK (Jim Belcher)
12. 10:51 AM - Re: Futter Mods in UK (jaybannist@cs.com)
13. 12:08 PM - Re: Flange on seat bottom (fgantt@texaviation.com)
14. 12:41 PM - Re: Futter Mods in UK (Iberplanes IGL)
15. 12:41 PM - Re: Futter Mods in UK (Carlos Sa)
16. 12:41 PM - Re: Futter Mods in UK (Iberplanes IGL)
17. 02:18 PM - Re: Flange on seat bottom (Peter W Johnson)
18. 03:53 PM - Parts that do not fit. (Greg Cox)
19. 04:11 PM - Re: Futter Mods in UK (Alan and Brenda)
20. 04:11 PM - Re: Futter Mods in UK (Alan and Brenda)
21. 04:14 PM - Re: Futter Mods in UK (Alan and Brenda)
22. 04:40 PM - Re: Futter Mods in UK (Alan and Brenda)
23. 04:46 PM - Re: Futter Mods in UK (Alan and Brenda)
24. 05:00 PM - Re: Parts that do not fit. (Paul Mulwitz)
25. 11:22 PM - Re: Weights and Balances (Ianrat)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Weights and Balances |
I have found a number of programs that will work out the weights and balances of
the 601 XL. But they are all in pounds and mm. Is there any difference in just
using Kilos instead of pounds or is there some other formula to use. We have
submit our findings to the RAA here in OZ in Kilos and mm
[Question]
Thank you
Ianrat
CH601XL
Australia.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266359#266359
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| Subject: | Weights and Balances |
Ian,
A W&B calculation is a measurement of ratios. The weight of four bananas,
one cucumber length from a pivot will balance eight bananas, one half of a
cucumber length from the pivot (assuming the weight of the bananas and the
lengths of the cucumber are similar).
Just use the same parameters throughout the calculation.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ianrat
Sent: Sunday, 4 October 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Weights and Balances
I have found a number of programs that will work out the weights and
balances of the 601 XL. But they are all in pounds and mm. Is there any
difference in just using Kilos instead of pounds or is there some other
formula to use. We have submit our findings to the RAA here in OZ in Kilos
and mm
[Question]
Thank you
Ianrat
CH601XL
Australia.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266359#266359
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Weights and Balances |
Ian,
Numbers is numbers.? I used the same spreadsheet to run W&B in pounds and mm (for
me); and in pounds and inches (for the FAA). I don't think your program will
know the difference, unless you make an issue of it.
Of course, your numbers will be upside down? (;>)
Jay Bannister
I have found a number of programs that will work out the weights and
balances of the 601 XL. But they are all in pounds and mm. Is there any
difference in just using Kilos instead of pounds or is there some other
formula to use. We have submit our findings to the RAA here in OZ in Kilos
and mm
[Question]
Thank you
Ianrat
CH601XL
Australia.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Weights and Balances |
Hi Ian,
I'm not sure the responses to your weight and balance question were
really clear. I agree with all of the ones I've seen, but they don't
tell you what to do.
I believe you can use any set of units for your calculations and you
will still get the correct CG result. The key is to convert ALL
measurements to the same new units. This includes the empty weight
and moment for your plane and the weight and location of all added items.
Good luck,
Paul
XL awaiting engineering changes
At 12:35 AM 10/4/2009, you wrote:
>I have found a number of programs that will work out the weights and
>balances of the 601 XL. But they are all in pounds and mm. Is there
>any difference in just using Kilos instead of pounds or is there
>some other formula to use. We have submit our findings to the RAA
>here in OZ in Kilos and mm
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Side Skins (Front) |
Hi, I have just reached this stage on my CH650 fuselage and my front side skins
dont appear to be correct either. Have the factory made a change to these skins
to rectify this issue?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266397#266397
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| Subject: | Flange on seat bottom |
I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this, and has a response from
Zenith. If not, I'll ring their bell tomorrow.
Drawing 6B15 shows the seat bottom, 6B15-4. On my copy of the drawings, it's
flat sheet of metal. Ditto for the image on the "Homebuilt Help" DVD.
A photo of what I received is attached. There's a flange, not shown on 6B15,
or the "Homebuilt Help" DVD, that would connect to the fuselage side.
Drawing 6B18, at the upper right, shows an "L" angle closeout between the seat
bottom, 6B15-4, and 6B11-2. It looks like this flange may obviate the need
for this "L" angle.
I'm guessing some others have received the seat bottoms with the added flange.
Did you install the "L" angle, or did you omit it?
============================================
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
Do not drink and derive.
============================================
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Weights and Balances |
Like others have said, just plug in kilos and mm into the program and
the result will be in kilos and mm regardless of what the output from
the program says. If you are using an Excel spreadsheet for your
calculations, you can change the text labels from pounds to kilos and
then everything will look right. It won't change the calculations one
bit.
>
> I have found a number of programs that will work out the weights and
> balances of the 601 XL. But they are all in pounds and mm. Is there
> any difference in just using Kilos instead of pounds or is there
> some other formula to use. We have submit our findings to the RAA
> here in OZ in Kilos and mm
>
> [Question]
>
> Thank you
>
> Ianrat
> CH601XL
> Australia.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flange on seat bottom |
Jim,
We have Kit # 7517 we have the flange as shown the Center Console now has
flanges that eliminate the
need for L angles.
It does appear that your access openings should be much higher near the
small angle at the top.
It appears that it was made incorrectly.
We have found several items that are not well documented for the 650
version.
Brenda and AL Smith
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Belcher" <z601a@anemicaardvark.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 11:53 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Flange on seat bottom
> I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this, and has a response from
> Zenith. If not, I'll ring their bell tomorrow.
>
> Drawing 6B15 shows the seat bottom, 6B15-4. On my copy of the drawings,
> it's
> flat sheet of metal. Ditto for the image on the "Homebuilt Help" DVD.
>
> A photo of what I received is attached. There's a flange, not shown on
> 6B15,
> or the "Homebuilt Help" DVD, that would connect to the fuselage side.
>
> Drawing 6B18, at the upper right, shows an "L" angle closeout between the
> seat
> bottom, 6B15-4, and 6B11-2. It looks like this flange may obviate the need
> for this "L" angle.
>
> I'm guessing some others have received the seat bottoms with the added
> flange.
> Did you install the "L" angle, or did you omit it?
> ============================================
>
> ============================================
> Jim B Belcher
> BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
> A&P/IA
> Retired aerospace technical manager
>
> Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
> Do not drink and derive.
> ============================================
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Futter Mods in UK |
We thought this would be an interesting read for the Zodiac Community.
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Zenair%20Docs...
LAA issues mod pack for grounded Zenair CH 601 XL - Sept 2009
In October 2008 the CAA issued an MPD (Mandatory Permit Directive) which
grounded the popular CH601 XL, due to concerns over structural integrity of
the wing attachments and possible aileron flutter. The LAA has just released
a modification to the wing attachments, adds aileron mass balances, alters
the elevator trim system and weight and cg range. Incorporating this
modification allows individual CH601 XL aircraft to be cleared once more for
flight. "
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Belcher" <z601a@anemicaardvark.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 11:53 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Flange on seat bottom
> I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this, and has a response from
> Zenith. If not, I'll ring their bell tomorrow.
>
> Drawing 6B15 shows the seat bottom, 6B15-4. On my copy of the drawings,
> it's
> flat sheet of metal. Ditto for the image on the "Homebuilt Help" DVD.
>
> A photo of what I received is attached. There's a flange, not shown on
> 6B15,
> or the "Homebuilt Help" DVD, that would connect to the fuselage side.
>
> Drawing 6B18, at the upper right, shows an "L" angle closeout between the
> seat
> bottom, 6B15-4, and 6B11-2. It looks like this flange may obviate the need
> for this "L" angle.
>
> I'm guessing some others have received the seat bottoms with the added
> flange.
> Did you install the "L" angle, or did you omit it?
> ============================================
>
> ============================================
> Jim B Belcher
> BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
> A&P/IA
> Retired aerospace technical manager
>
> Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
> Do not drink and derive.
> ============================================
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Flange on seat bottom |
On Sunday 04 October 2009 12:30, Alan and Brenda wrote:
> <alsmith@olemac.net>
>
> Jim,
>
> We have Kit # 7517 we have the flange as shown the Center Console now has
> flanges that eliminate the
> need for L angles.
>
> It does appear that your access openings should be much higher near the
> small angle at the top.
> It appears that it was made incorrectly.
> We have found several items that are not well documented for the 650
> version.
My center console lacks the flanges. However, I had it stuck in my head
somehow that the flange on the seat bottom went down, not up. I was mistaken;
it does go up, and would occupy the same physical space as the "L" angle.
Obviously, then, the "L:" angle is not required.
Differences between the documentation and the parts seems to be a common
theme. I've received several other parts (like the wing tips) that do not
match the drawings.
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
Do not drink and derive.
============================================
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Futter Mods in UK |
I tried it, and got the following message:
"Error 403 - Forbidden
You tried to access a document for which you don't have privileges."
On Sunday 04 October 2009 12:33, Alan and Brenda wrote:
> <alsmith@olemac.net>
>
> We thought this would be an interesting read for the Zodiac Community.
>
> http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Zenair%20Docs...
>
>
> LAA issues mod pack for grounded Zenair CH 601 XL - Sept 2009
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
Do not drink and derive.
============================================
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Futter Mods in UK |
Allen and Brenda,
When I clicked on the "interesting read", I got the following error message:
FORBIDDEN
You tried to access a document for which you don't have privileges.
What "privileges" do I need to read it ?
Jay Bannister
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan and Brenda <alsmith@olemac.net>
Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2009 12:33 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Futter Mods in UK
?
We thought this would be an interesting read for the Zodiac Community.?
?
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Zenair%20Docs...?
?
LAA issues mod pack for grounded Zenair CH 601 XL - Sept 2009?
?
Message 13
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| Subject: | Flange on seat bottom |
JimI am building a CH 650 and I installed with the preformed set bottom
with Flange and omitted the L angle. Floyd
----------------------------------------
From: "Jim Belcher" <z601a@anemicaardvark.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 12:02 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Flange on seat bottom
I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this, and has a response from
Zenith. If not, I'll ring their bell tomorrow.
Drawing 6B15 shows the seat bottom, 6B15-4. On my copy of the drawings,
it's
flat sheet of metal. Ditto for the image on the "Homebuilt Help" DVD.
A photo of what I received is attached. There's a flange, not shown on
6B15,
or the "Homebuilt Help" DVD, that would connect to the fuselage side.
Drawing 6B18, at the upper right, shows an "L" angle closeout between the
seat
bottom, 6B15-4, and 6B11-2. It looks like this flange may obviate the need
for this "L" angle.
I'm guessing some others have received the seat bottoms with the added
flange.
Did you install the "L" angle, or did you omit it?
============================================
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
Do not drink and derive.
============================================
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Futter Mods in UK |
None, the link was published broken.
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Started
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Futter Mods in UK |
Try the following address:
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/engineering_updates.html
Carlos
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Futter Mods in UK |
hi,
I believe this is the doc. *http://tinyurl.com/nwoxss
*
bye
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Started
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Message 17
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| Subject: | Flange on seat bottom |
Jim,
I had the same thing. I also found that the seat bottom didn't fit with the
plans dimensions. I cut off the flange and added the L angle. I emailed
Zenith about it and that was their suggestion.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Belcher
Sent: Monday, 5 October 2009 3:54 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Flange on seat bottom
I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this, and has a response from
Zenith. If not, I'll ring their bell tomorrow.
Drawing 6B15 shows the seat bottom, 6B15-4. On my copy of the drawings, it's
flat sheet of metal. Ditto for the image on the "Homebuilt Help" DVD.
A photo of what I received is attached. There's a flange, not shown on 6B15,
or the "Homebuilt Help" DVD, that would connect to the fuselage side.
Drawing 6B18, at the upper right, shows an "L" angle closeout between the
seat bottom, 6B15-4, and 6B11-2. It looks like this flange may obviate the
need for this "L" angle.
I'm guessing some others have received the seat bottoms with the added
flange.
Did you install the "L" angle, or did you omit it?
============================================
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
Do not drink and derive.
============================================
Message 18
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| Subject: | Parts that do not fit. |
I am building a CH650 in Australia and have found that my center wing spar
is the wrong angle (XL601) and that the front fuselage side skins are also
wrong (a mix of XL601 outer dimensions and CH650 pre drilled holes). As it
will take some time for replacement parts to arrive down under, I would be
interested to hear from anyone that is further along with the build (either
CH650 or late XL601) that may be able to advise of other parts that are not
correct so that I may have them all sent to me in one shipment. I believe
that there may be an issue with the seat bottom? and maybe the top skin?
Regards,
Greg Cox
Zenith Zodiac CH650, VH-ZDC
Sydney, Australia (Cecil Hills)
Email - greg@gas-n-go.com.au
Mobile - 0430002333
Fax - (02) 9823 9977
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Futter Mods in UK |
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Zenair%20Docs/Zenai
%20CH%20601%20XL%20-%20MPD%20release%20Modification%20Instructions%20-%20
fourth.pdf
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Futter Mods in UK
None, the link was published broken.
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Started
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Futter Mods in UK |
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Zenair%20Docs/Zenai
%20CH%20601%20XL%20-%20MPD%20release%20Modification%20Instructions%20-%20
fourth.pdf
----- Original Message -----
From: jaybannist@cs.com
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Futter Mods in UK
Allen and Brenda,
When I clicked on the "interesting read", I got the following error
message:
FORBIDDEN
You tried to access a document for which you don't have privileges.
What "privileges" do I need to read it ?
Jay Bannister
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan and Brenda <alsmith@olemac.net>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2009 12:33 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Futter Mods in UK
<alsmith@olemac.net>
We thought this would be an interesting read for the Zodiac Community.
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Zenair%20Docs...
LAA issues mod pack for grounded Zenair CH 601 XL - Sept 2009
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Futter Mods in UK |
If the link I sent does not work send me a email and I will send to you.
This works for me.
AL
----- Original Message -----
From: jaybannist@cs.com
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Futter Mods in UK
Allen and Brenda,
When I clicked on the "interesting read", I got the following error
message:
FORBIDDEN
You tried to access a document for which you don't have privileges.
What "privileges" do I need to read it ?
Jay Bannister
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan and Brenda <alsmith@olemac.net>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2009 12:33 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Futter Mods in UK
<alsmith@olemac.net>
We thought this would be an interesting read for the Zodiac Community.
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Zenair%20Docs...
LAA issues mod pack for grounded Zenair CH 601 XL - Sept 2009
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Futter Mods in UK |
Try this
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/engineering.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Futter Mods in UK
None, the link was published broken.
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Started
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Futter Mods in UK |
Try this
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Zenair%20Docs/Zenai%20CH%20601%20XL%20-%20MPD%20release%20Modification%20Instructions%20-%20fourth.pdf
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Belcher" <z601a@anemicaardvark.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Futter Mods in UK
> <z601a@anemicaardvark.com>
>
> I tried it, and got the following message:
>
> "Error 403 - Forbidden
>
> You tried to access a document for which you don't have privileges."
>
> On Sunday 04 October 2009 12:33, Alan and Brenda wrote:
>> <alsmith@olemac.net>
>>
>> We thought this would be an interesting read for the Zodiac Community.
>>
>> http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Zenair%20Docs...
>>
>>
>> LAA issues mod pack for grounded Zenair CH 601 XL - Sept 2009
>
> --
> ============================================
> Do not archive.
> ============================================
> Jim B Belcher
> BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
> A&P/IA
> Retired aerospace technical manager
>
> Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
> Do not drink and derive.
> ============================================
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Parts that do not fit. |
Hi Greg,
I found I was very unhappy with the pre-drilled holes from Zenith on
just about all the parts. When ordering replacements I ordered them
without the holes drilled. They were very happy to comply. I found
it much easier to drill the holes myself.
You might consider replacing some of the parts with scratch built
ones. I don't know about your market, but I suspect you can get
sheets of 6061-T6 where you are. It might not be very satisfying
from a financial point of view, but I predict you will feel just fine
about the accomplishment of building your own parts from
scratch. You already have the advantage of seeing what "Nearly"
correct parts look like and you have all the dimensions on your drawings.
The spar carry-through is one of those places I would demand a
correct part from Zenith. It is the heaviest load bearing part
(along with the wing spars) on the plane. You may find you can bend
it a little to match up with the rest of your plane.
Good luck,
Paul
XL awaiting engineering changes
At 03:52 PM 10/4/2009, you wrote:
>I am building a CH650 in Australia and have found that my center
>wing spar is the wrong angle (XL601) and that the front fuselage
>side skins are also wrong (a mix of XL601 outer dimensions and CH650
>pre drilled holes). As it will take some time for replacement parts
>to arrive down under, I would be interested to hear from anyone that
>is further along with the build (either CH650 or late XL601) that
>may be able to advise of other parts that are not correct so that I
>may have them all sent to me in one shipment. I believe that there
>may be an issue with the seat bottom? and maybe the top skin?
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Greg
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Weights and Balances |
Thank you all for your responses. I will use the one i have and just change the
wording.
Ianrat :P
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266533#266533
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