Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:16 AM - PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! (Matt Dralle)
1. 01:11 AM - Re: 601 nose gear (aussiech650)
2. 04:56 AM - Re: Complete 601XL kit for sale. (cleone24)
3. 08:00 AM - Re: XL rear spar (Jim Belcher)
4. 08:27 AM - 601 XL Project For Sale W/Cont O-200 (Clyde Barcus)
5. 08:41 AM - Re: 601 XL Project For Sale W/Cont O-200 (Jim Belcher)
6. 08:44 AM - 601XL for sale (Correction) (Clyde Barcus)
7. 09:51 AM - Re: XL rear spar (jaybannist@cs.com)
8. 11:14 AM - Re: Complete 601XL kit for sale. (Walter Carey)
9. 11:23 AM - Chat Reminder (George Race)
10. 03:58 PM - Re: Re: Cowling attachment, O200 (Jim Belcher)
11. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: Cowling attachment, O200 (Craig Payne)
12. 04:36 PM - Re: Re: Cowling attachment, O200 (Karl Polifka)
13. 05:02 PM - Re: Re: Cowling attachment, O200 (Floyd Wilkes)
14. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: Cowling attachment, O200 (Jim Belcher)
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| Subject: | PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During |
November!
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages and web site pages such as the Matronics List Forums ( http://forums.matronics.com ), the List Wiki ( http://wiki.matronics.com), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), the List Browser ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/).
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective
web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product
line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this
year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods
afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with
a qualifying Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601 nose gear |
I assume (you know what they say about that) they are saying they have drilled
a hole in the base plate on the gear leg for drainage and therefore this would
also require holes in the gear forks to allow that drainage to take place.
My CH650 leg only has one hole drilled in the bottom of the nose leg at the back
just above the weld. I have added an item to my annual inspection checklist
to ensure this hole is clear and spray some water dispersant in the hole.
Greg Cox
Sydney Australia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270403#270403
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Complete 601XL kit for sale. |
I am interested. Please advise if you still have it.
cleone24@mchsi.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Carey
To: 601XL builders
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 4:23 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Complete 601XL kit for sale.
If anyone is interested or knows of someone thinking of buying a
601 kit, the following is for sale:
Complete 601XL kit, including aux 12 gal fuel tanks (48 gal
total), landing/nav/strobe lights, ect. Wings 90 %, flaps 100%, ailerons
100%, empennage 100%, fuselage 25% complete. Built to plans. Workmanship
rated "excellent" on both EAA Technical Advisor visits, and "excellent"
by NAAA (National Aircraft Appraisers Association) appraiser in Jun 09.
$10,000 firm. Contact Walt Carey at 937-426-8095 or at
www.careywf@sbcglobal.net. Located Dayton, Ohio.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: XL rear spar |
On Saturday 31 October 2009 11:53, jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> Let's put this hole in the rear spar in perspective. See attached pdf.
> Comments??
Jay -
In re-reading yesterday's mail., I feel I failed, in my reply to you, to
correctly address the issue. I may (I hope not) have given the impression I
was just being diagreeable, and flipping off the question. I thought some on
the truss vs hole in the spar issue, and why I felt as I did. Here's what I
came up with:
A truss is usually made by adding triangular bracing to a pair of parallel
supports. The advantage over just using a solid piece of wood, metal, or
whatever, is that the brace is lighter. As I recall, it can never be as
strong as a solid piece of the same material of the same general size, but it
can be lighter and cheaper.
But a major difference between it and a solid piece of material is that one
determines the strength needed, and either designs or has built an
appropriate truss. That's a design to requirement process.
Conversely, when one has a solid piece of metal, like a spar, or perhaps a
wood stud in a wall, there is sometimes a need to have a hole penetrate the
material. Of course, round holes are generally used, so that the stress is
more equally distributed. The question then becomes, how big a hole, and how
close to the edge can the hole be, before impacting the strength of the
material?
That, I believe, is the question in the case of the hole in the 601XL rear
spar. I see the truss as being a question of how we make it strong enough,
and the hole a question of how we not impact the strength. Similar issues,
but not quite the same.
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
Do not drink and derive.
============================================
Message 4
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| Subject: | 601 XL Project For Sale W/Cont O-200 |
I have concluded my hip and joint problems (Along with up-coming
surgery) will make it extremely difficult for me to get in and out of a
high wing aircraft so I am putting it up for sale. It is roughly 60 to
70% finished, the kit is complete with dual sticks, dual brakes, nav
lights, strobes, wheel pants and wing lockers. The Continental O-200 is
complete with logs and accessories excepting exhaust. My price is
$14,000 for everything, I will consider trades, especially classic
car/project. I want to sell the engine and kit together. If you have any
interest, contact me off line at barcusc@comcast.net.
Clyde Barcus
(615) 822-2135
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Project For Sale W/Cont O-200 |
Best of luck on the surgery. I know it can be a real problem to get in and out
of aircraft wtih physical limitations, and I'm sorry you won't be able to
enjoy your aircraft.
On Sunday 01 November 2009 10:19, Clyde Barcus wrote:
> I have concluded my hip and joint problems (Along with up-coming surgery)
> will make it extremely difficult for me to get in and out of a high wing
> aircraft so I am putting it up for sale. It is roughly 60 to 70% finished,
> the kit is complete with dual sticks, dual brakes, nav lights, strobes,
> wheel pants and wing lockers. The Continental O-200 is complete with logs
> and accessories excepting exhaust. My price is $14,000 for everything, I
> will consider trades, especially classic car/project. I want to sell the
> engine and kit together. If you have any interest, contact me off line at
> barcusc@comcast.net.
>
> Clyde Barcus
> (615) 822-2135
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
Do not drink and derive.
============================================
Message 6
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| Subject: | 601XL for sale (Correction) |
Obviously I meant low wing, I was thinking about a flying a high wing
after rehab.
Regards
Clyde
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: XL rear spar |
Jim,
As far as I am concerned, we are sharing points of view, not arguing.
On reading your last post, I think you are overlooking the fact that the
spar is not like a rectangular wood beam or a stud; it has top and bottom
flanges. What you say would be absolutely true if there were no flanges.
Edge distance would certainly be critical. But there are flanges; doubl
e flanges when you count the skins. That makes the vertical part of the
spar a web, not a stand-alone beam. It would be more like a metal stud
than a wood stud. Those guys are pretty light weight, full of holes in
the web and they are very "floppy" until you stabilize and reinforce the
flanges with gypsum wallboard. Then they are as strong, or stronger than
a solid wood stud. The same with that spar. It is very "floppy" until
the flanges are stabilized and reinforced by the skins. And again, that
web, where the hole is, primarily serves to locate the flanges, not to ca
rry bending loads. Once again, look at the size and location of the "holes
" in a truss. That hole in the spar can be practically flange to flange
and not effect the strength of the structural system. I say "practically"
, because from a durability point, the hole should obviously not touch the
radius between the web and the flange.
Yes, a truss does save weight, but it absolutely can be as strong as a so
lid beam. All structural members contribute to dead load. Given two str
uctural members of the same strength, the lighter one always wins because
it allows more live load; and carrying the live load is why we have the
structure in the first place.
Jay
-
m>
Jay -
In re-reading yesterday's mail., I feel I failed, in my reply to you, to
correctly address the issue. I may (I hope not) have given the impression
I
was just being diagreeable, and flipping off the question. I thought some
on
the truss vs hole in the spar issue, and why I felt as I did. Here's what
I
came up with:
A truss is usually made by adding triangular bracing to a pair of parallel
supports. The advantage over just using a solid piece of wood, metal, or
whatever, is that the brace is lighter. As I recall, it can never be as
strong as a solid piece of the same material of the same general size, but
it
can be lighter and cheaper.
But a major difference between it and a solid piece of material is that on
e
determines the strength needed, and either designs or has built an
appropriate truss. That's a design to requirement process.
Conversely, when one has a solid piece of metal, like a spar, or perhaps
a
wood stud in a wall, there is sometimes a need to have a hole penetrate th
e
material. Of course, round holes are generally used, so that the stress is
more equally distributed. The question then becomes, =9Chow big a ho
le, and how
close to the edge can the hole be, before impacting the strength of the
material?=9D
That, I believe, is the question in the case of the hole in the 601XL rear
spar. I see the truss as being a question of how we make it strong enough,
and the hole a question of how we not impact the strength. Similar issues,
but not quite the same.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Complete 601XL kit for sale. |
I still have the complete kit as I only listed it a few day ago. If still interersted,
send snail mail address and I will mail youdetailed info on kit and copy
of appraisal. Also have FWF kit for Jabiru 3300 that's for sale (price not
determined yet)and new Jabiru 3300A (hydraulic lifters) engine that I may or may
not sell. It's a beautiful engine. Haven't determined price I want to sell
them for as of yet. Waltin Dayton, Ohio.
--- On Sun, 11/1/09, cleone24 <cleone24@mchsi.com> wrote:
From: cleone24 <cleone24@mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Complete 601XL kit for sale.
I am interested. Please advise if you still have it.cleone24@mchsi..com
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Carey
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 4:23 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Complete 601XL kit for sale.
If anyone is interested or knows of someone thinking of buying a 601 kit, the following
is for sale:
Complete 601XL kit, includingaux 12 gal fuel tanks (48 gal total), landing/nav/strobe
lights, ect. Wings 90 %,flaps 100%, ailerons 100%, empennage 100%, fuselage
25% complete. Built to plans.Workmanship rated "excellent" on both EAA Technical
Advisor visits, and "excellent" by NAAA (National Aircraft Appraisers
Association)appraiser inJun 09.
$10,000 firm. Contact Walt Carey at 937-426-8095 or at www.careywf@sbcglobal.net. Located Dayton, Ohio.
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 9
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Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT
www.mykitairplane.com <http://www.mykitairplane.com/>
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling attachment, O200 |
Thanks. I reviewed the relevant area of the video, and looked up the fasteners
on the Internet. You're right on both counts: they look like they'd work
better, but it looks like enough to do the XL would cost $300-$400.
However, unless I come up with something like looks like it would work, that
may be the only choice.
On Monday 26 October 2009 19:47, Sabrina wrote:
>
> I used 13 (7 top, 6 bottom) Camloc CM1 adjustable depth receptacles. I
> made up my own brackets and mounted them to the firewall. My cowling is
> mounted outside the sideskins.
>
> At 4 minutes into this video you can see the brackets:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZQfypsw8k4
>
> I am at school and do not have access to my plans or build photos.
>
> They are not cheap, but they hold much better than my attempts with Dzus
> fasteners.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269579#269579
>
>
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
Do not drink and derive.
============================================
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling attachment, O200 |
MilSpec also has a line of adjustable Camloc clones. A number of VAF guys
did a group buy a few years ago:
http://www.milspecproducts.com/index.html
http://www.milspecproducts.com/26002700c-lock.htm#receptacles
I don't know if they cost more or less than the Camloc parts.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Belcher
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Cowling attachment, O200
Thanks. I reviewed the relevant area of the video, and looked up the
fasteners
on the Internet. You're right on both counts: they look like they'd work
better, but it looks like enough to do the XL would cost $300-$400.
However, unless I come up with something like looks like it would work, that
may be the only choice.
On Monday 26 October 2009 19:47, Sabrina wrote:
>
> I used 13 (7 top, 6 bottom) Camloc CM1 adjustable depth receptacles. I
> made up my own brackets and mounted them to the firewall. My cowling is
> mounted outside the sideskins.
>
> At 4 minutes into this video you can see the brackets:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZQfypsw8k4
>
> I am at school and do not have access to my plans or build photos.
>
> They are not cheap, but they hold much better than my attempts with Dzus
> fasteners.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269579#269579
>
>
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
Do not drink and derive.
============================================
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling attachment, O200 |
While it was about 3-4 years ago when I bought camlocs for the same
application -- although difficult to buy at the time they were about, on
average, $4 each.
Karl
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jim Belcher" <z601a@anemicaardvark.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Cowling attachment, O200
> <z601a@anemicaardvark.com>
>
> Thanks. I reviewed the relevant area of the video, and looked up the
> fasteners
> on the Internet. You're right on both counts: they look like they'd work
> better, but it looks like enough to do the XL would cost $300-$400.
>
> However, unless I come up with something like looks like it would work,
> that
> may be the only choice.
>
>
> On Monday 26 October 2009 19:47, Sabrina wrote:
>>
>> I used 13 (7 top, 6 bottom) Camloc CM1 adjustable depth receptacles. I
>> made up my own brackets and mounted them to the firewall. My cowling is
>> mounted outside the sideskins.
>>
>> At 4 minutes into this video you can see the brackets:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZQfypsw8k4
>>
>> I am at school and do not have access to my plans or build photos.
>>
>> They are not cheap, but they hold much better than my attempts with Dzus
>> fasteners.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269579#269579
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> ============================================
> Do not archive.
> ============================================
> Jim B Belcher
> BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
> A&P/IA
> Retired aerospace technical manager
>
> Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
> Do not drink and derive.
> ============================================
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling attachment, O200 |
Jim,
I used hinges to connect the bottom cowl to the fuselage. Pictures at
http://picasaweb.google.com/floyd.wilkes/2008_02_07#
I used nutplates and screws to attach the top cowl.
I take off the top cowl then just pull the pin and the bottom is off.
This method is used a lot by the RV folks.
This is a fairly cheap way to do it.
Floyd Wilkes
601XL O-200
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Belcher
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Cowling attachment, O200
Thanks. I reviewed the relevant area of the video, and looked up the
fasteners
on the Internet. You're right on both counts: they look like they'd work
better, but it looks like enough to do the XL would cost $300-$400.
However, unless I come up with something like looks like it would work, that
may be the only choice.
On Monday 26 October 2009 19:47, Sabrina wrote:
>
> I used 13 (7 top, 6 bottom) Camloc CM1 adjustable depth receptacles. I
> made up my own brackets and mounted them to the firewall. My cowling is
> mounted outside the sideskins.
>
> At 4 minutes into this video you can see the brackets:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZQfypsw8k4
>
> I am at school and do not have access to my plans or build photos.
>
> They are not cheap, but they hold much better than my attempts with Dzus
> fasteners.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269579#269579
>
>
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
Do not drink and derive.
============================================
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling attachment, O200 |
I would agree it should be less expensive, and probably adequate structurally.
But doesn't the bend in the piano wire in the hinge make it difficult to
remove?
On Sunday 01 November 2009 18:56, Floyd Wilkes wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> I used hinges to connect the bottom cowl to the fuselage. Pictures at
> http://picasaweb.google.com/floyd.wilkes/2008_02_07#
>
> I used nutplates and screws to attach the top cowl.
>
> I take off the top cowl then just pull the pin and the bottom is off.
> This method is used a lot by the RV folks.
>
> This is a fairly cheap way to do it.
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.
Do not drink and derive.
============================================
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