---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/07/09: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:33 AM - Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists (Matt Dralle) 1. 08:11 AM - Welding Equipment (Clyde Barcus) 2. 11:40 AM - 601XL down in Arkansas (dougsire) 3. 12:23 PM - Re: 601XL down in Arkansas (fritz) 4. 12:55 PM - Re: 601 nose gear (Thruster87) 5. 01:52 PM - Re: 601XL down in Arkansas (Paul Mulwitz) 6. 02:54 PM - Re: 601XL down in Arkansas (afterfxllc@aol.com) 7. 02:55 PM - Re: 601XL down in Arkansas (Davcoberly@wmconnect.com) 8. 03:15 PM - Re: 601XL down in Arkansas (Davcoberly@wmconnect.com) 9. 03:47 PM - Re: 601XL down in Arkansas (fritz) 10. 03:52 PM - Re: 601XL down in Arkansas (Davcoberly@wmconnect.com) 11. 04:33 PM - FAA grounds 601 and 650 (hansriet) 12. 05:03 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (LHusky@aol.com) 13. 05:04 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Jay Maynard) 14. 05:10 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (hansriet) 15. 06:34 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Paul Mulwitz) 16. 06:51 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Jay Maynard) 17. 07:21 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Paul Mulwitz) 18. 07:36 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Doug - SportAviation) 19. 07:52 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Bryan Martin) 20. 08:04 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Doug - SportAviation) 21. 08:19 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Doug - SportAviation) 22. 09:44 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Thruster87) 23. 09:51 PM - Re: Re: 601 nose gear (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:03 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith601-List: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551-0347 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:28 AM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Zenith601-List: Welding Equipment I do a fair amount of welding and I really prefer my Mig, I have made body repairs, built three trailers and have worked on several other projects as well. It does not take all that long to learn to weld with a mig and once you have some practice you will be proud of the welds that can be done with it. My favorite programs, Chop, Cut and rebuild, Two Guys Garage and Orange County Choppers often use Mig's for fabricating structual components, they also use a TIG but not to the same degree. I have welded with a TIG and would love to have one but I can't justify $1800.00 for a decent one. My MIG cost a little over $500 with gas, however it is more difficult to weld aluminum with it but I have seen others do a great job. I also have gas and arc welders, but seldom use them. Regards Clyde Barcus ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:40:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas From: "dougsire" A 601XL crashed in north central Arkansas yesterday, http://diamondpilots.blogspot.com/2009/11/plane-crash-in-fulton-county-arkansas.html. Can anyone get to the crash site to get photos? It could take a long time to get anything via NTSB. This seems to have some of the characteristics of an in-flight breakup. There is not much impact damage on the ground, it landed upside down, and the wreckage is very mangled. -------- Doug Sire 601XL Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271579#271579 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:33 PM PST US From: "fritz" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas Any reports on where the wings were located in relationship to the fuselage? Fritz--- do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "dougsire" Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:39 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas > > A 601XL crashed in north central Arkansas yesterday, > http://diamondpilots.blogspot.com/2009/11/plane-crash-in-fulton-county-arkansas.html. > Can anyone get to the crash site to get photos? It could take a long > time to get anything via NTSB. This seems to have some of the > characteristics of an in-flight breakup. There is not much impact damage > on the ground, it landed upside down, and the wreckage is very mangled. > > -------- > Doug Sire 601XL > Do Not Archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271579#271579 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:57 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: 601 nose gear From: "Thruster87" This is the way to go with the nose wheel fork :The Storm 500s gear has been developed to allow grass-field operation, and the direct linkage steering nosewheel, provide remarkably precise ground handling and steering. The brakes are actuated by toe brake pedals which are attached to the rudder pedals. The master cylinders with reservoirs are connected to the pedals on the pilot side, and standard master cylinders are on the passenger side. No additional brake fluid reservoir is used. Brake lines are made of clear heavy duty nylon tubing. This makes it easy to bleed the brakes and very easy to install and remove the lines. The nose gear is steering through a 22 degree arc each side of centre by the use of the rudder pedals. Steel 3/8 inch diameter rods connect the rudder pedals to the nose wheel. This gives the aircraft accurate and tight steering. The nose wheel design is unique in that it is very simple. The nose wheel strut is held in place with two large nylon bearings, impregnated with oil. The lower bearing is machined so that the strut "self centres" which also centres the rudder. The nose wheel is attached to a inch thick aluminium wheel fork which is bolted to the nose strut. The nose strut is 2 inch diameter 4130N steel tubing. The result is an all around extra tough nose gear assembly which has no O rings, back-up rings or gaskets. Additionally, no shimming is required. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271586#271586 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:07 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas I looked at the photo posted by the newspaper, and saw a couple of things that might be interesting: 1. There didn't seem to be any fire. That is good news for accident cause determination. 2. I didn't see any wings in the picture. I did see what looks like the tip of the horizontal stabilizer. 3. It looks like there might be a sizeable radiator near the nose gear. So it probably has a water cooled engine. I know this is not much, but it is all I could get from the photo. The police report says there was only one person in the plane, but I don't consider this reliable information. If I understood the latest information available it seems like all the wing separations happened with two people in the plane. I'm sure the accident investigation folks will have a lot more good information for us in a few days. Paul XL awaiting engineering changes. do not archive At 12:21 PM 11/7/2009, you wrote: > >Any reports on where the wings were located in relationship to the fuselage? > >Fritz--- do not archive >----- Original Message ----- From: "dougsire" >To: >Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:39 PM >Subject: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas > >> >>A 601XL crashed in north central Arkansas yesterday ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas From: afterfxllc@aol.com Let's worry more about getting pictures and if the plane did or didn't hav e 2 people in the plane than the fact someone died...... Geez this list is getting sick. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Mulwitz Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 4:46 pm Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas I looked at the photo posted by the newspaper, and saw a couple of things that might be interesting: 1. There didn't seem to be any fire. That is good news for accident cause determination. 2. I didn't see any wings in the picture. I did see what looks like the ti p of the horizontal stabilizer. 3. It looks like there might be a sizeable radiator near the nose gear. So it probably has a water cooled engine. I know this is not much, but it is all I could get from the photo. The pol ice report says there was only one person in the plane, but I don't consid er this reliable information. If I understood the latest information avail able it seems like all the wing separations happened with two people in th e plane. I'm sure the accident investigation folks will have a lot more good inform ation for us in a few days. Paul XL awaiting engineering changes. do not archive At 12:21 PM 11/7/2009, you wrote: > >Any reports on where the wings were located in relationship to the fusela ge? > >Fritz--- do not archive >----- Original Message ----- From: "dougsire" >To: >Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:39 PM >Subject: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas > >> >>A 601XL crashed in north central Arkansas yesterday ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:27 PM PST US From: Davcoberly@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas According to Internet search said it was 71 yr old man from IL they may be going just by registration N538CJ not by who was flying --don't even know if this is correct for sure I hate to even post what I read not verified shows to be 2007 601XL / Jabiru 3300 David Coberly ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:30 PM PST US From: Davcoberly@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas Forget what I said I can't even find it again it may not even have been this accident. David ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:47:25 PM PST US From: "fritz" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas Hey, you guys are the ones that want to keep on fly-in them--- there is nothing wrong with asking some questions. This happen every time there is an accident-- a pissing contest gets started on this site. Last time one of the "elete" on this site ran out of gas, got killed and others got flamed for "asking questions" do not archive Fritz ----- Original Message ----- From: afterfxllc@aol.com To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:29 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas Let's worry more about getting pictures and if the plane did or didn't have 2 people in the plane than the fact someone died...... Geez this list is getting sick. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 4:46 pm Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas I looked at the photo posted by the newspaper, and saw a couple of things that might be interesting: 1. There didn't seem to be any fire. That is good news for accident cause determination. 2. I didn't see any wings in the picture. I did see what looks like the tip of the horizontal stabilizer. 3. It looks like there might be a sizeable radiator near the nose gear. So it probably has a water cooled engine. I know this is not much, but it is all I could get from the photo. The police report says there was only one person in the plane, but I don't consider this reliable information. If I understood the latest information available it seems like all the wing separations happened with two people in the plane. I'm sure the accident investigation folks will have a lot more good information for us in a few days. Paul XL awaiting engineering changes. do not archive At 12:21 PM 11/7/2009, you wrote: > >Any reports on where the wings were located in relationship to the fuselage? > >Fritz--- do not archive >----- Original Message ----- From: "dougsire" >To: >Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:39 PM >Subject: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas > >> >>A 601XL crashed in north central Arkansas yesterday =========== ank>www.aeroelectric.com target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com blank>www.homebuilthelp.com lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List =========== ://forums.matronics.com =========== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:38 PM PST US From: Davcoberly@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL down in Arkansas Here's what I saw on Internet search. UPDATE: IL man identified as victim in Fulton Co. airplane crash By: Debby Stanuch Print ShareThis An investigation of an airplane crash in Fulton county that claimed the life of an Illinois man is currently underway, according to the Arkansas State Police. 71 year old Charles Cummings of North Aurora was killed when the single engine Zenith Aircraft he was piloting crashed in a field east of Salem in the Agnos community. Arkansas State Trooper Daniel Busch says Cummings was alone in the aircraft. The Federal Aviation Association and National Transportation Safety Board are conducting ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:16 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 From: "hansriet" http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-11-07_zodiac.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271611#271611 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:40 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 I did not read anything that says the 601 or 650 is grounded by the FAA? Anyone else read something different, other than a title to a post that is inaccurate. I will sign my name to my post! Larry Husky Madras, Oregon In a message dated 11/7/2009 4:33:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, hansinla@mac.com writes: --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "hansriet" http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-11-07_zodiac.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271611#271611 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:43 PM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 04:32:43PM -0800, hansriet wrote: > http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-11-07_zodiac.asp They didn't quite ground it. They "strongly recommended" that the aircraft not be flown again until the necessary modifications are made. AMD has not issued the safety bulletin yet. Since there is no safety bulletin yet, it's still legal to fly the SLSA version. I'm told that it's been in development for a while, but know nothing about it. I'll be calling the factory Monday to get the scoop. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:47 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 From: "hansriet" Larry, No reason to get o defensive. Sorry for not signing my name. It;s Hans van Riet. And the way I read the FAA bulletin, it is grounded. It strongly recommends to comply with the mods. And it further states that you can't fly if you know that your aircraft is not airworthy. But to each his own interpretation. Hans van Riet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271621#271621 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:52 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 Hi Larry, I read the SAIB as saying the fleet is either grounded (S-LSA) or should be grounded by owners/operators of E-LSA and E-AB planes. The language is not quite as clear as normal humans would prefer. I think the reason is to really "Ground" the planes the FAA would have to go through a year long (or longer) process of NPRM and public comments before actually issuing a rule. This language is about as strong as they could use. Instead of saying it is against the law to fly the planes, they imply that any pilot who flies one of these planes is in violation of FARs. I think it is very significant that they include 650s along with 601XLs in the SAIB. That means all the effort by the various companies to make the problem go away by changing the model number amounted to nothing. Apparently this has been in the works and the release date was influenced by the accident in Arkansas. I am sorry it took another fatal accident to get this moving, but I am glad the fixes for the design problems are now to be made available to us all. I presume the companies, AMD and ZAC, will make the design changes available soon. Paul XL awaiting engineering changes. At 04:43 PM 11/7/2009, you wrote: >I did not read anything that says the 601 or 650 is grounded by the >FAA? Anyone else read something different, other than a title to a >post that is inaccurate. > >I will sign my name to my post! > >Larry Husky >Madras, Oregon > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:54 PM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 06:33:36PM -0800, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > I read the SAIB as saying the fleet is either grounded (S-LSA) or should be > grounded by owners/operators of E-LSA and E-AB planes. The SAIB says that FAA "strongly recommends" the fleet be grounded. However, it does not say the fleet *is* grounded. I expect that AMD will issue a mandatory safety letter first thing Monday morning grounding the SLSA fleet. That has the legal force of an AD. The FAA cannot issue ADs against SLSAs, according to the folks from the LSA group I asked at Oshkosh. However, SLSAs may be legally flown until that happens. This is not just of academic interest to me: I had a trip planned for tomorrow. As it happens, it got called off for other reasons. > I presume the companies, AMD and ZAC, will make the design changes > available soon. I hope so. The question I have for you, Paul, is: Will you accept the changes as AMD issues them, or will you insist that they include other changes if you don't think they addressed the issues? -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:12 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 Hi Jay, I can't answer your question until I actually see the changes. However, I believe I will implement at least some of the changes and then proceed to have my plane inspected and into phase 1 testing. My position has always been (since the NTSB letter) that I wanted official changes for the aileron mass balance and control sensitivity issues. I am not particularly concerned with the airspeed indication, but I will seriously consider any proposed change there. I think it is safe to assume I will consider any wing structure change as satisfying my desire for aileron balancing. The desire was based on the NTSB letter and there is now new official information to consider. I am hopeful I will have my XL in the air and maybe completely through phase I before I return my leased plane to its owner next May. Paul At 06:49 PM 11/7/2009, you wrote: >I hope so. The question I have for you, Paul, is: Will you accept the changes >as AMD issues them, or will you insist that they include other changes if >you don't think they addressed the issues? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:33 PM PST US From: "Doug - SportAviation" Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 These are things I know as fact: - Zenair had designed, and AMD has been working on the steps it takes to make the mods - and documenting the practical aspects of making the modifications. - This announcement had been planned to be made by the end of October (and the FAA has had the documents for a few weeks). Issuing the Safety Alert/Directive required coordination with the FAA. This was finalized only in the very recent past. I was told there had been some back-and-forth on whether unmodified aircraft could continue to be flown at the reduced performance/weight numbers; with modified aircraft able to move back to the greater (previous) performance/weight. Apparently, that is not in the cards. - Kits are being put together now for distribution. Here's what I don't know: any particulars beyond the spar modifications. I don't believe the items will match up 1-to-1 with the LAA. The facts suggest that the real engineering analysis - with real data - has been performed by the manufacturer and the FAA. Those modifications will be the appropriate set; not the LAA's, as well-meaning as they are. With respect to a grounding, the FAA can make a strong recommendation - or order an emergency grounding; but it's the manufacturer who actually issues the Safety Alert/Directive, and to which SLSAs must comply. That is what the FAA bulletin reminds us. Jay is correct. Once (and if) AMD issues a "perform before next flight" notification (which is what is coming it seems), then one will need to apply for a Special Flight Permit if one wants to move the aircraft to a place different from where it is currently located to have the modifications made. Let's please try to move past this. Doug Norman N601DN -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Maynard Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:50 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 06:33:36PM -0800, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > I read the SAIB as saying the fleet is either grounded (S-LSA) or should be > grounded by owners/operators of E-LSA and E-AB planes. The SAIB says that FAA "strongly recommends" the fleet be grounded. However, it does not say the fleet *is* grounded. I expect that AMD will issue a mandatory safety letter first thing Monday morning grounding the SLSA fleet. That has the legal force of an AD. The FAA cannot issue ADs against SLSAs, according to the folks from the LSA group I asked at Oshkosh. However, SLSAs may be legally flown until that happens. This is not just of academic interest to me: I had a trip planned for tomorrow. As it happens, it got called off for other reasons. > I presume the companies, AMD and ZAC, will make the design changes > available soon. I hope so. The question I have for you, Paul, is: Will you accept the changes as AMD issues them, or will you insist that they include other changes if you don't think they addressed the issues? -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:57 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 The FAA may be able to ground 601s with S-LSA certificates but they have no authority to ground all E-AB 601s because there is no type certificate to take action against. The FAA would have to ground each individual E-AB on a case by case basis since each one is considered a one of a kind airplane. Besides which, during phase 1 testing I have flown my airplane to 4 Gs at a gross weight of 1320 lbs and have flown it to 110% of my stated Vne. I have carefully and systematically test flown my plane to the limits of its documented flight envelope and am confident that it is airworthy if flown within that envelope. I see no reason to reduce my flight envelope. I am the manufacturer, it is my decision to make, no one else's. On Nov 7, 2009, at 7:43 PM, LHusky@aol.com wrote: > I did not read anything that says the 601 or 650 is grounded by the > FAA? Anyone else read something different, other than a title to a > post that is inaccurate. > > I will sign my name to my post! > > Larry Husky > Madras, Oregon > > In a message dated 11/7/2009 4:33:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, hansinla@mac.com > writes: -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:04 PM PST US From: "Doug - SportAviation" Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 Late breaking news: AMD just issued a Safety Alert, this evening, grounding all 601XLs and 650 SLSAs. Zenair is with the FAA and the NTSB at the accident site. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug - SportAviation Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:36 PM Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 These are things I know as fact: - Zenair had designed, and AMD has been working on the steps it takes to make the mods - and documenting the practical aspects of making the modifications. - This announcement had been planned to be made by the end of October (and the FAA has had the documents for a few weeks). Issuing the Safety Alert/Directive required coordination with the FAA. This was finalized only in the very recent past. I was told there had been some back-and-forth on whether unmodified aircraft could continue to be flown at the reduced performance/weight numbers; with modified aircraft able to move back to the greater (previous) performance/weight. Apparently, that is not in the cards. - Kits are being put together now for distribution. Here's what I don't know: any particulars beyond the spar modifications. I don't believe the items will match up 1-to-1 with the LAA. The facts suggest that the real engineering analysis - with real data - has been performed by the manufacturer and the FAA. Those modifications will be the appropriate set; not the LAA's, as well-meaning as they are. With respect to a grounding, the FAA can make a strong recommendation - or order an emergency grounding; but it's the manufacturer who actually issues the Safety Alert/Directive, and to which SLSAs must comply. That is what the FAA bulletin reminds us. Jay is correct. Once (and if) AMD issues a "perform before next flight" notification (which is what is coming it seems), then one will need to apply for a Special Flight Permit if one wants to move the aircraft to a place different from where it is currently located to have the modifications made. Let's please try to move past this. Doug Norman N601DN -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Maynard Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:50 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 06:33:36PM -0800, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > I read the SAIB as saying the fleet is either grounded (S-LSA) or should be > grounded by owners/operators of E-LSA and E-AB planes. The SAIB says that FAA "strongly recommends" the fleet be grounded. However, it does not say the fleet *is* grounded. I expect that AMD will issue a mandatory safety letter first thing Monday morning grounding the SLSA fleet. That has the legal force of an AD. The FAA cannot issue ADs against SLSAs, according to the folks from the LSA group I asked at Oshkosh. However, SLSAs may be legally flown until that happens. This is not just of academic interest to me: I had a trip planned for tomorrow. As it happens, it got called off for other reasons. > I presume the companies, AMD and ZAC, will make the design changes > available soon. I hope so. The question I have for you, Paul, is: Will you accept the changes as AMD issues them, or will you insist that they include other changes if you don't think they addressed the issues? -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:02 PM PST US From: "Doug - SportAviation" Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 And here it is. Doug Norman N601DN -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug - SportAviation Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 Late breaking news: AMD just issued a Safety Alert, this evening, grounding all 601XLs and 650 SLSAs. Zenair is with the FAA and the NTSB at the accident site. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug - SportAviation Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:36 PM Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 These are things I know as fact: - Zenair had designed, and AMD has been working on the steps it takes to make the mods - and documenting the practical aspects of making the modifications. - This announcement had been planned to be made by the end of October (and the FAA has had the documents for a few weeks). Issuing the Safety Alert/Directive required coordination with the FAA. This was finalized only in the very recent past. I was told there had been some back-and-forth on whether unmodified aircraft could continue to be flown at the reduced performance/weight numbers; with modified aircraft able to move back to the greater (previous) performance/weight. Apparently, that is not in the cards. - Kits are being put together now for distribution. Here's what I don't know: any particulars beyond the spar modifications. I don't believe the items will match up 1-to-1 with the LAA. The facts suggest that the real engineering analysis - with real data - has been performed by the manufacturer and the FAA. Those modifications will be the appropriate set; not the LAA's, as well-meaning as they are. With respect to a grounding, the FAA can make a strong recommendation - or order an emergency grounding; but it's the manufacturer who actually issues the Safety Alert/Directive, and to which SLSAs must comply. That is what the FAA bulletin reminds us. Jay is correct. Once (and if) AMD issues a "perform before next flight" notification (which is what is coming it seems), then one will need to apply for a Special Flight Permit if one wants to move the aircraft to a place different from where it is currently located to have the modifications made. Let's please try to move past this. Doug Norman N601DN -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Maynard Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:50 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 06:33:36PM -0800, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > I read the SAIB as saying the fleet is either grounded (S-LSA) or should be > grounded by owners/operators of E-LSA and E-AB planes. The SAIB says that FAA "strongly recommends" the fleet be grounded. However, it does not say the fleet *is* grounded. I expect that AMD will issue a mandatory safety letter first thing Monday morning grounding the SLSA fleet. That has the legal force of an AD. The FAA cannot issue ADs against SLSAs, according to the folks from the LSA group I asked at Oshkosh. However, SLSAs may be legally flown until that happens. This is not just of academic interest to me: I had a trip planned for tomorrow. As it happens, it got called off for other reasons. > I presume the companies, AMD and ZAC, will make the design changes > available soon. I hope so. The question I have for you, Paul, is: Will you accept the changes as AMD issues them, or will you insist that they include other changes if you don't think they addressed the issues? -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:46 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 From: "Thruster87" Doug.Norman(at)sportaviat wrote: > And here it is. > > Doug Norman > N601DN > > -- Can these drawings be viewed anywhere??? Complete the upgrade by using the following information: i. Drawing 6-ZU-1, 6-ZU-2, 6-ZU-3, and 6-ZU-4. ii. Photo guide with construction standards iii. Use FAA AC-43.13.-1B and 2A if additional information is required iv. Use the UK LAA's modification MOD/162B/004 dated 18/08/09 for only the installation of the aileron counter balance weights. Drawings and assembly instructions are part of the modification Cheers Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271655#271655 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:53 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Re: 601 nose gear Hmm, I've read this three times and don't see how it differs from the design on the ZAC aircraft (except maybe the 3/8 inch rods). What am I missing? -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thruster87 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:55 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: 601 nose gear This is the way to go with the nose wheel fork :The Storm 500s gear has been developed to allow grass-field operation, and the direct linkage steering nosewheel, provide remarkably precise ground handling and steering. The brakes are actuated by toe brake pedals which are attached to the rudder pedals. The master cylinders with reservoirs are connected to the pedals on the pilot side, and standard master cylinders are on the passenger side. No additional brake fluid reservoir is used. Brake lines are made of clear heavy duty nylon tubing. This makes it easy to bleed the brakes and very easy to install and remove the lines. The nose gear is steering through a 22 degree arc each side of centre by the use of the rudder pedals. Steel 3/8 inch diameter rods connect the rudder pedals to the nose wheel. This gives the aircraft accurate and tight steering. The nose wheel design is unique in that it is very simple. The nose wheel strut is held in place with two large nylon bearings, impregnated with oil. The lower bearing is machined so that the strut "self centres" which also centres the rudder. The nose wheel is attached to a inch thick aluminium wheel fork which is bolted to the nose strut. The nose strut is 2 inch diameter 4130N steel tubing. The result is an all around extra tough nose gear assembly which has no O rings, back-up rings or gaskets. Additionally, no shimming is required. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271586#271586 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.