Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:13 AM - Re: 601 nose gear (Thruster87)
2. 07:09 AM - Chat Reminder (George Race)
3. 09:06 AM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (lwhitlow)
4. 09:26 AM - Re: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Paul Mulwitz)
5. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Doug - SportAviation)
6. 05:02 PM - SAIB (roger lambert)
7. 05:05 PM - Re: 601 nose gear (Ron Lendon)
8. 06:37 PM - Re: SAIB (Paul Mulwitz)
9. 10:00 PM - Re: 601XL down in Arkansas (lwhitlow)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601 nose gear |
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> Hmm, I've read this three times and don't see how it differs from the design
on the ZAC aircraft (except maybe the 3/8 inch rods). What am I missing?
>
> -- Craig
>
> --
Fork 3/4" thick [solid as I understand it] ours are only two plates by 1/4" each
Cheers
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271661#271661
Message 2
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Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT
www.mykitairplane.com <http://www.mykitairplane.com/>
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
Questions For Discussion
1. The FAA is saying that the E-AB guys should use the AMD fixes How will we get
these drawings and parts?/ I am not a customer of AMD I bought a kit from the
boys in Mexico MO. Anybody on the list have any contact with the Zenith in
Mexico MO?? I'm assuming they are doing the changes for AMD and are the ones
really doing the drawings and making the parts??
2. The AMD Letter refers to the EU/UK LAA mass balance weights drawings and I've
read that. However, the LAA doc also calls for a carry through spar mod that
AMD makes no mention of. SOOOOOO are we gonna have to do the carry through mod
or not???
3. The AMD docs say the plane should be placarded per the November 2009 bulletin.
So how do the E-AB guys get that bulletin?
What a mess I think its poor planning and PR and engineering practice to point
to a EU / UK LAA document that is not drawn and managed by the designer / manufacturer,
and not at least discuss WHY you are NOT saying we should do everything
in this document but only do part of it.
Zenith /AMD may not feel the spar mod is needed but at least say that or SAY SOMETHING!
To be mute on the issue is NOT ACCEPTABLE!!
I'm ready, willing and able to do any mod to my nearly complete 601XL but I want
words from Zenith as to their reasoning behind only implementing part of the
LAA letter and not all of it
Zenith NOW IS THE TIME TO SPEAK UP!!! Every day you waste not addressing these
questions devalues my aircraft, your investment in the 601 / 650 program
and the Zenith Aircraft company.
I believe that no matter what problems may exists with the 601 /650 they are all
fixable and we can have a safe respected airplane, but that requires the factory
and designer to step up and say something
Larry Whitlow
601XL Jabiru 3300
N69102 (reserved)
I was about 90% done but now I apparently have more to do
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271705#271705
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
Hi Larry,
I think a little more patience will be rewarded. My take on this whole mess:
1. The FAA and AMD releases were rushed by the Agnos, AR
accident. They probably planned to all make the announcement at the
same time to prevent the kind of frustration you are experiencing. I
think ZAC will make a similar release soon - Probably Monday morning.
2. The AMD planes are more similar to each other than kit built
planes. That means some of the details for AMD owners are easier to
spell out than they will be for kit builders or plans builders. This
especially applies to things like POH which will be different for
each kit built plane but all the AMD planes probably use the same one.
3. Chris Heintz has apparently been deeply involved in the
development of these changes. He has already announced (I think)
that the LAA changes don't meet his approval. I think we can expect
a similar set of changes released from ZAC as the AMD ones but with
orientation towards plans and kit builders rather than S-LSA
purchasers. The design is the same, but the freedom to make changes
doesn't exist in the S-LSA world. Also, AMD is calling for A&P
efforts to make the changes while experimental plane owners will
mostly work from plans or parts supplied by ZAC (or Aircraft Spruce)
to do the changes themselves.
I am full of hope now that my plane will be able to fly pretty
soon. The changes are pretty extensive (at least according to the
comments on AMD and FAA releases) so it might take a few months to
complete them. Still, I have never had a completion schedule and I don't now.
Paul
XL awaiting engineering changes
At 09:05 AM 11/8/2009, you wrote:
>Zenith NOW IS THE TIME TO SPEAK UP!!! Every day you waste not
>addressing these questions devalues my aircraft, your investment in
>the 601 / 650 program and the Zenith Aircraft company.
>
>I believe that no matter what problems may exists with the 601 /650
>they are all fixable and we can have a safe respected airplane, but
>that requires the factory and designer to step up and say something
>
>Larry Whitlow
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 |
Comments inline to Larry Whitlow's questions. I can partially answer some of
it. Please note that I have no connection with Zenair, Zenith, nor AMD. I am
an AMD customer. What I'm sharing is what I've been told.
This is frustrating for everyone; and it may be near an end.
Doug Norman
N601DN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lwhitlow
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:06 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650
Questions For Discussion
1. The FAA is saying that the E-AB guys should use the AMD fixes How will we
get these drawings and parts?/ I am not a customer of AMD I bought a kit
from the boys in Mexico MO. Anybody on the list have any contact with the
Zenith in Mexico MO?? I'm assuming they are doing the changes for AMD and
are the ones really doing the drawings and making the parts??
1Answer- Zenair has been making kits for AMD. I'm not sure about Zenith
making them for the experimental owners. I suspect they are making them, but
it's surely worth a call. I'm not sure the drawings have been published yet.
2. The AMD Letter refers to the EU/UK LAA mass balance weights drawings and
I've read that. However, the LAA doc also calls for a carry through spar mod
that AMD makes no mention of. SOOOOOO are we gonna have to do the carry
through mod or not???
2Answer - there will be (is) spar augmentation; and I was told (by Zenair)
it includes the carry-through.
3. The AMD docs say the plane should be placarded per the November 2009
bulletin. So how do the E-AB guys get that bulletin?
3Answer - The Nov POH isn't yet on the AMD site.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271705#271705
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A Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) is an information tool
that alerts, educates, and makes recommendations to the aviation community.
SAIBs contain non-regulatory information and guidance that does not meet the
criteria for an Airworthiness Directive (AD).
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601 nose gear |
Thruster87 wrote:
>
> craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> > Hmm, I've read this three times and don't see how it differs from the design
on the ZAC aircraft (except maybe the 3/8 inch rods). What am I missing?
> >
> > -- Craig
> >
> > --
> Fork 3/4" thick [solid as I understand it] ours are only two plates by 1/4" each
Cheers
My prints show that 6G1-2 & 6G1-5 plate thickness as 3/16" not 1/4".
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/site/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271750#271750
Message 8
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Hi Roger,
I'm sure your quote is correct. However, the information they
published is that all CH601XL and CH650 airplanes are not airworthy
until the specified changes are installed. So the planes aren't
grounded, but if they catch any pilot flying one he is automatically
in violation of the FARs and can expect to lose his license. If you
don't think the FAA will do that just think about the airline pilots
who forgot to land in Minneapolis last week - their licenses were
Revoked. If I understand that term correctly, that means they will
never fly again.
I would also suggest anyone considering flying their plane before
installing the required fixes check with their insurance company. I
suspect any in-flight coverage has just been voided.
Paul
XL awaiting engineering changes
At 04:57 PM 11/8/2009, you wrote:
>A Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) is an
>information tool that alerts, educates, and makes recommendations to
>the aviation community. SAIBs contain non-regulatory information and
>guidance that does not meet the criteria for an Airworthiness Directive (AD).
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL down in Arkansas |
I think I saw the pic you are referring to Paul
What you described as a radiator looks like my oil cooler on the Jabriu 3300. I
can see the brackets and what looks like a piece of the rubber baffle strip that
joins up with the hole in the cowl. I just took mine off the other day to
work on the cowl.
If it is a Jabriu then this cannot be an AMD plane. They all have O-200's
Larry Whitlow
psm(at)att.net wrote:
> I looked at the photo posted by the newspaper, and saw a couple of
> things that might be interesting:
>
> 1. There didn't seem to be any fire. That is good news for accident
> cause determination.
> 2. I didn't see any wings in the picture. I did see what looks like
> the tip of the horizontal stabilizer.
> 3. It looks like there might be a sizeable radiator near the nose
> gear. So it probably has a water cooled engine.
>
> I know this is not much, but it is all I could get from the
> photo. The police report says there was only one person in the
> plane, but I don't consider this reliable information. If I
> understood the latest information available it seems like all the
> wing separations happened with two people in the plane.
>
> I'm sure the accident investigation folks will have a lot more good
> information for us in a few days.
>
> Paul
> XL awaiting engineering changes.
> do not archive
>
>
> At 12:21 PM 11/7/2009, you wrote:
>
>
> Any reports on where the wings were located in relationship to the fuselage?
>
> Fritz--- do not archive
> ---
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271786#271786
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