---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/10/09: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:04 AM - Re: Re: Should the Modification Kit Be Free? (Iberplanes IGL) 2. 12:15 AM - Re: Re: Should the Modification Kit Be Free? (Paul Mulwitz) 3. 05:17 AM - Re: Should the Modification Kit Be Free? (mhubel) 4. 05:34 AM - update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs (fritz) 5. 05:37 AM - Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs (Robert Pelland) 6. 05:47 AM - Warning - Slightly off topic - Yankee vs. Zodiac and specsmanship. (Paul Mulwitz) 7. 06:18 AM - Re: Warning - Slightly off topic - Yankee vs. Zodiac and specs (mhubel) 8. 06:59 AM - Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs (Stephen R. Look) 9. 09:12 AM - Spar Cap Bolts (dougsire) 10. 10:08 AM - Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs (Rick Lindstrom) 11. 11:36 AM - Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs (William Dominguez) 12. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs (Bill Pagan) 13. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs (Rick Lindstrom) 14. 12:24 PM - Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs (Elden Jacobson) 15. 12:55 PM - Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs (Davcoberly@wmconnect.com) 16. 02:11 PM - Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs (Randy) 17. 02:18 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Terry Phillips) 18. 02:50 PM - Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs (dougsire) 19. 02:58 PM - Re: Retrofitting Wing Lockers with the Upgrade (GLJSOJ1) 20. 03:04 PM - Re: FAA grounds 601 and 650 (Jim Belcher) 21. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs (Terry Turnquist) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Should the Modification Kit Be Free? From: Iberplanes IGL I=B4ll pay without hesitation. bye, Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Started Engine: Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:40 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Should the Modification Kit Be Free? Actually, I learned when I had to scrap my first wing and order replacement parts to build another one that Zenith didn't make spars at all. The spars were made for them by Zenair. If I understood the drawings at all, there is not much being done to the center section that relates to its original construction. We are adding another piece, a doubler, to the top of the center section and adding vertical reinforcements. It doesn't look difficult to do at all. We will need to remove the seats to add reinforcements to them that mate to the new parts on the top of the center section. The additions to the wings will be considerably more difficult to do. They require removal of a large portion of the skin and might also involve removing rear ribs. In any case, I'm sure you can get Zenith to perform the adjustments to your center section. All you need to do is remove the whole thing and ship it back to them along with a fee for the work. Paul At 10:01 PM 11/9/2009, you wrote: >I don't know about your kit but my center spar and wing spars were >completely built by Zenith. All I had to do was to mount the center >spar and attach some parts to the wing spars. Now Zenith wanted me >to remove those parts so that I could "fix" the spars that Zenith >built. Something was wrong with that picture! I couldn't imagine >those with Zenith quick built kit would feel. We all had to sign >the contract to make purchases with Zenith but that would not >completely release Zenith from liability as we shall see in pending >and upcoming lawsuits. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:04 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Should the Modification Kit Be Free? From: "mhubel" Basically I support Zenith and in this business, the best I can expect is what apparently has happened, the engineering was done although I don't fully think the correct issues were all addressed. Having said that, I must express my disappointment in some issues with the 601 line. I will admit that when I selected it, perhaps I should have done more due diligence. First and probably of most significance to the current issue, when I saw the 6G number in the brochure, I assumed it had the same meaning as every production plane I have flown. There the only advertised G number I have seen is one the aircraft is designed to operate at on a regular basis. In that light 6G is near acrobatic strength, I thought this is indestructible. I didn't understand the meaning of the new term "ultimate" until I got the kit. Secondly, the performance numbers in the factory brochure are a bit misleading. They talk about a 120 knot cruse aircraft with the Jabiru 3300 engine. What is not said is that this number is not at the normal 75% cruse power but at full throttle. Yes the engine allows that but no aircraft engine that I know of will last long if used at full throttle for extended periods. This does not count the 10 GPH fuel rate. I don't call that "cruse". At the moment the plane is to be dis-assembled and put in the corner of the hanger. The prime spot will be occupied by a Grumman AA-1 if I can find one. It is so strong that the people would probably be flattened before the wing complains. If all this blows over and one can get reasonable liability insurance in the future, the updates might be done. Otherwise, there will be an engine and radios with a big metal bracket for sale. -------- Mark Hubelbank N708HU CH601XL Jabiru 3300 Rotec TBI 40 carb Sensenich ground adj prop. 41 hr TAF Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272062#272062 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:09 AM PST US From: "fritz" Subject: Zenith601-List: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs could someone please provide the link (s) that shows or expains the "required mods"? Thank you in advance. Fritz--- do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "mhubel" Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 2:55 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: The real work of the update on the CH601XL > > I figure one takes any personal estimate and double it to get to reality. > That is how I got 200 hours. > > Even assuming we do all this. will anyone write insurance for it after? > That is not at all clear. > > Anyone want an engine, and radios with a big metal bracket attached? > > -------- > Mark Hubelbank > N708HU > CH601XL > Jabiru 3300 > Rotec TBI 40 carb > Sensenich ground adj prop. > 41 hr TAF > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271961#271961 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:03 AM PST US From: "Robert Pelland" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs Try this, http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-ZU-1-2-3%20NOV%208.pdf it should get you there Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: fritz To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Zenith601-List: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs could someone please provide the link (s) that shows or expains the "required mods"? Thank you in advance. Fritz--- do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "mhubel" To: Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 2:55 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: The real work of the update on the CH601XL > > I figure one takes any personal estimate and double it to get to reality. > That is how I got 200 hours. > > Even assuming we do all this. will anyone write insurance for it after? > That is not at all clear. > > Anyone want an engine, and radios with a big metal bracket attached? > > -------- > Mark Hubelbank > N708HU > CH601XL > Jabiru 3300 > Rotec TBI 40 carb > Sensenich ground adj prop. > 41 hr TAF > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271961#271961 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:42 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Zenith601-List: Warning - Slightly off topic - Yankee vs. Zodiac and specsmanship. Hi Mark, Like you, I have always liked the Yankee. I got a demo ride in one ca. 1967 when it was a shiny new entry into the light plane market. Its roll rate was so fast you could get a special kind of dizzy. Unfortunately, it developed a horrible accident record. Probably because of the very high stall speed and small wings (that made it handle with so much spirit) it was beyond the skill level of many of the low time pilots who were attracted to it. I agree with your comment it had a strong structure, but its handling was just too "Good". Its follow on 4-place design, the AA-5 just never made a big hit on the market. In my experience, the quality of the factory built AA-5s just wasn't very good - too many rattling parts. The Zodiac XL is a departure from the Zodiac line in a couple of ways. The biggest visible change is the long tapered wing instead of the shorter bent wing of previous models. The current list of updates being handed out to American owners suggests this wing change was not engineered with the same robustness as the previous models. We all hope the update fixes this shortcoming and the plane recovers its leadership position in the market. The other big change in the XL is the early adoption of the LSA concept and performance specifications. This caused several years of continual changing in the design and the specifications. The LSA standard kept changing before final adoption and the XL design kept trying to keep up with the limits of the changes. This is only part of the reason for big changes in XL specifications. The other one is the normal tendency airplane designers and sellers have to give their product more attractive numbers than are justified. This is not a new phenomenon. In practice, I don't think the difference between any airplane's real performance and it's glossy brochure numbers are a big deal. One of my friends makes a handsome living ferrying airplanes around the country. He says the only way to get improved average speed is to extend each flight to the maximum length of time. The time to land, refuel, eat and smell the roses between flight legs is a lot more significant than the small differences in airspeed that happen as you adjust the throttle and mixture. I understand it is an issue to get really high airspeed numbers. This makes me feel good too. Alas, this is one of the least important characteristics of any plane. I respect your choice to have your plane taken apart and stored in the corners of your hangar. Mine has been that way for 7 months now. I am looking forward to installing the mods and getting my plane in the air. I suspect you will feel that way too several months from now. I wish you the best. Paul XL moving on to installing the new changes At 05:16 AM 11/10/2009, you wrote: >At the moment the plane is to be dis-assembled and put in the corner >of the hanger. The prime spot will be occupied by a Grumman AA-1 if >I can find one. It is so strong that the people would probably be >flattened before the wing complains. If all this blows over and one >can get reasonable liability insurance in the future, the updates >might be done. Otherwise, there will be an engine and radios with a >big metal bracket for sale. > >-------- >Mark Hubelbank >N708HU >CH601XL ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:01 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Warning - Slightly off topic - Yankee vs. Zodiac and specs From: "mhubel" Paul, I agree the AA1 is a bit wild. I have flown Grummans for 20 years. I know they are in the class of you love them or you hate them. I find their aggressive handling to be part of the fun. I sort of look forward to an AA-1 as it is even more demanding than the AA-5. The local Grumman group used to even have a winter ice landing event just to make things even more interesting. It has been a while since the lake has been frozen well enough to do it. If you ask the question, would I put a AA-1 in the hands of a very low time pilot who has just flown C-150s on long runways? No. They may have been called trainers at one time but maybe that really implied trainer for jet fighter pilots. -------- Mark Hubelbank N708HU CH601XL Jabiru 3300 Rotec TBI 40 carb Sensenich ground adj prop. 41 hr TAF Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272072#272072 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:05 AM PST US From: "Stephen R. Look" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs Maybe I read a different Q&A paper... as I read along I got the idea that Chris didn't really think that any of this was necessary. Steve Steve Look Monticello, IL www.ilrt66.com "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Spar Cap Bolts From: "dougsire" The upgrade plans call for using AN3 or AN4 bolts to attach the spar extrusion, 6-ZU-1-1, to the existing upper spar cap (after drilling out existing rivets. Are there any issues or concerns with having bolts hold the spar cap on in an area that is not accessible for inspection or maintenance? -------- Doug Sire 601XL Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272106#272106 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:04 AM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs Hi, Gang! Like so many others here, I'm contemplating ripping apart my QB 601XL to install the suggested mods, and am considering what the positives and negatives will be. Of course, I'm thrilled at the prospect of restoring some of the value to design, as well as silencing that nagging fear of airframe failure in the back of my head. I've said all along that I'd love a beefier, more G-tolerant airframe to increase the margin of safety. (I've flown enough cross country to experience sudden clear air turbulence that has bounced my head off of the canopy, and I can easily imagine how a 601 or 650 might have its G load limits exceeded through no fault of the pilot.) One of things I'm NOT thrilled about is the additional weight these mods will add to the empty weight. So I called up Robbie Grove this morning, and he said that if we got enough guys together to place a group order for his lightweight, gun-drilled main gear, he could probably knock off 10 to 20 percent of the price. If you're not familiar with the Grove gear for the 601, it saves about 15 pounds over the stock gear while eliminating exterior brake lines to the calipers. Really slick. Robbie said he needs a minimum of ten orders. Anyone else interested in this? Rick Lindstrom ZenVair 601XL N42KP -----Original Message----- >From: Robert Pelland >Sent: Nov 10, 2009 8:36 AM >To: zenith601-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs > >Try this, > > http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-ZU-1-2-3%20NOV%208.pdf > >it should get you there > >Robert ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:19 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs From: "William Dominguez" Rick, How much is the regular price for this gear? Is there a web site for this company where I can read about the gear? William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/ tigerrick(at)mindspring.c wrote: > Hi, Gang! > > Like so many others here, I'm contemplating ripping apart my QB 601XL to install the suggested mods, and am considering what the positives and negatives will be. > > Of course, I'm thrilled at the prospect of restoring some of the value to design, as well as silencing that nagging fear of airframe failure in the back of my head. I've said all along that I'd love a beefier, more G-tolerant airframe to increase the margin of safety. (I've flown enough cross country to experience sudden clear air turbulence that has bounced my head off of the canopy, and I can easily imagine how a 601 or 650 might have its G load limits exceeded through no fault of the pilot.) > > One of things I'm NOT thrilled about is the additional weight these mods will add to the empty weight. So I called up Robbie Grove this morning, and he said that if we got enough guys together to place a group order for his lightweight, gun-drilled main gear, he could probably knock off 10 to 20 percent of the price. If you're not familiar with the Grove gear for the 601, it saves about 15 pounds over the stock gear while eliminating exterior brake lines to the calipers. Really slick. > > Robbie said he needs a minimum of ten orders. Anyone else interested in this? > > Rick Lindstrom > ZenVair 601XL N42KP > > -- -------- William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272126#272126 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:54 PM PST US From: Bill Pagan Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs the website lists the price at $1357.00 pluss $200.00 for the gundrill. - You can see it here:- http://www.groveaircraft.com/landing_gear.html- Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES) --- On Tue, 11/10/09, William Dominguez wrote: From: William Dominguez Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs om> Rick, How much is the regular price for this gear? Is there a web site for this c ompany where I can read about the gear? William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/ tigerrick(at)mindspring.c wrote: > Hi, Gang! > > Like so many others here, I'm contemplating ripping apart my QB 601XL to install the suggested mods, and am considering what the positives and negat ives will be. > > Of course, I'm thrilled at the prospect of restoring some of the value to design, as well as silencing that nagging fear of airframe failure in the back of my head. I've said all along that I'd love a beefier, more G-tolera nt airframe to increase the margin of safety. (I've flown enough cross coun try to experience sudden clear air turbulence that has bounced my head off of the canopy, and I can easily imagine how a 601 or 650 might have its G l oad limits exceeded through no fault of the pilot.) > > One of things I'm NOT thrilled about is the additional weight these mods will add to the empty weight. So I called up Robbie Grove this morning, and he said that if we got enough guys together to place a group order for his lightweight, gun-drilled main gear, he could probably knock off 10 to 20 p ercent of the price. If you're not familiar with the Grove gear for the 601 , it saves about 15 pounds over the stock gear while eliminating exterior b rake lines to the calipers. Really slick. > > Robbie said he needs a minimum of ten orders. Anyone else interested in t his? > > Rick Lindstrom > ZenVair 601XL N42KP > > -- -------- William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272126#272126 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:06 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs A quick visit to the Grove website (http://www.groveaircraft.com) didn't result in pricing, but I remember the price of the gun-drilled gear for the 601 being around $1600. We also need the mounting plate that AMD has developed for this gear, and I have no idea what the cost of that is. We could also get the gear with the external, rear brake line channel instead of the internal brake line, most likely at a bit lower cost. Not cheap, I know, but I hate giving up useful load. It means I'd hafta go on a diet and stick to it! Rick -----Original Message----- >From: William Dominguez >Sent: Nov 10, 2009 2:36 PM >To: zenith601-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs > > >Rick, > >How much is the regular price for this gear? Is there a web site for this company where I can read about the gear? > >William Dominguez >Zodiac 601XL Plans >Miami Florida >http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/ > > >tigerrick(at)mindspring.c wrote: >> Hi, Gang! >> >> Like so many others here, I'm contemplating ripping apart my QB 601XL to install the suggested mods, and am considering what the positives and negatives will be. >> >> Of course, I'm thrilled at the prospect of restoring some of the value to design, as well as silencing that nagging fear of airframe failure in the back of my head. I've said all along that I'd love a beefier, more G-tolerant airframe to increase the margin of safety. (I've flown enough cross country to experience sudden clear air turbulence that has bounced my head off of the canopy, and I can easily imagine how a 601 or 650 might have its G load limits exceeded through no fault of the pilot.) >> >> One of things I'm NOT thrilled about is the additional weight these mods will add to the empty weight. So I called up Robbie Grove this morning, and he said that if we got enough guys together to place a group order for his lightweight, gun-drilled main gear, he could probably knock off 10 to 20 percent of the price. If you're not familiar with the Grove gear for the 601, it saves about 15 pounds over the stock gear while eliminating exterior brake lines to the calipers. Really slick. >> >> Robbie said he needs a minimum of ten orders. Anyone else interested in this? >> >> Rick Lindstrom >> ZenVair 601XL N42KP >> >> -- > > >-------- >William Dominguez >Zodiac 601XL Plans >Miami Florida >http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272126#272126 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:08 PM PST US From: Elden Jacobson Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs Rick: - At about what price? - Elden J. --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Rick Lindstrom wrote: From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs com> Hi, Gang! Like so many others here, I'm contemplating ripping apart my QB 601XL to in stall the suggested mods, and am considering what the positives and negativ es will be. Of course, I'm thrilled at the prospect of restoring some of the value to d esign, as well as silencing that nagging fear of airframe failure in the ba ck of my head. I've said all along that I'd love a beefier, more G-tolerant airframe to increase the margin of safety. (I've flown enough cross countr y to experience sudden clear air turbulence that has bounced my head off of the canopy, and I can easily imagine how a 601 or 650 might have its G loa d limits exceeded through no fault of the pilot.) One of things I'm NOT thrilled about is the additional weight these mods wi ll add to the empty weight. So I called up Robbie Grove this morning, and h e said that if we got enough guys together to place a group order for his l ightweight, gun-drilled main gear, he could probably knock off 10 to 20 per cent of the price. If you're not familiar with the Grove gear for the 601, it saves about 15 pounds over the stock gear while eliminating exterior bra ke lines to the calipers. Really slick. Robbie said he needs a minimum of ten orders. Anyone else interested in thi s? Rick Lindstrom ZenVair 601XL N42KP -----Original Message----- >From: Robert Pelland >Sent: Nov 10, 2009 8:36 AM >To: zenith601-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs > >Try this, > > http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-ZU-1-2-3%20NOV%208.pdf > >it should get you there > >Robert le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:09 PM PST US From: Davcoberly@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs Rick, Weight has also been one of my big concerns as I was already pushing the #1320 limit most of the time even with reduced fuel. So how much do you think were talking here. David Coberly ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:48 PM PST US From: "Randy" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs Steve, I must have read the same Q&A as you did, because I came to the same conclusion. Randy Ferri ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen R. Look To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs Maybe I read a different Q&A paper... as I read along I got the idea that Chris didn't really think that any of this was necessary. Steve Steve Look Monticello, IL www.ilrt66.com "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:20 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 Bryan I have to agree with you and Doug, that, once you have the airworthiness certificate, you, the manufacturer and pilot of an E-AB, are the judge of whether or not your creation is airworthy. But I would like to add a bit more information for you to consider. With Mat's permission, I am posting the following message that I received this morning. I hope that all owners of E-AB 601XL's and 650's will consider what Mat has to say, particularly in the 3rd and 4th paragraphs. >>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:16:33 -0800 (PST) >>From: Mat Heintz >>Subject: Re: Transmittal of ZBAG CH601XL Flutter Report >>To: Terry Phillips >>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.21 required=4.00 >>tests=HTML_MESSAGE,BAYES_40,MR_NOT_ATTRIBUTED_IP,NO_RDNS2,MR_DIFF_MID,OTHER >> version=3.2.1 >>X-Spam-Level: *** >>X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (1.0) on mail.rkymtn.net >> >>Hi Terry, >>I was forwarded your comments on the Matronics list and has very happy to >>see that you are in full support of the upgrade. >>We estimate that the upgrade parts will be significantly less than $1,000 >>USD as we will be supplying them at cost. As you stated, there is >>absolutely no way that we can supply the parts free. We have been >>spending way too much money on all this testing and litigation, so I >>appreciate what you said. Our mission now is to get everyone to fly >>safely and for us to stay in business so that we can support the aircraft >>fro years to come. >> >>We now have a Q&A posted on the ZAC site and will be continuing a Q&A on >>the zenith.aero site so that everyones questions will be answered. >> >>Regarding the Safety Alert. It is critical that everyone follows it and >>that they do not fly thier aircraft until the upgrade is done. We are >>talking about the Experimantal and AMD aircraft 601 XL and 650. >> >>I spent the weekend with the FAA and NTSB going over the accident in AR. >>The NTSB will be about180 days before releasing anything of significance. >>I want to make it cleare is that it does not seem to be overstressing of >>the airframe but rather from vibrations or flutter. We have found out >>that the owner did have flutter a few months back where he tensioned his >>control cables. Recently, he installed an auto pilot and it could well be >>that he was flight testing that. It could be that the auto pilot >>overloaded the aileron system thus causing loose control cables. Or >>manybe a loose flap system started severe vibrations. The bottom line is >>that people should not fly until the upgrade is done. We will have >>another drawing with more things to do (but very minor things). >> >>Thanks again for suporting the upgrade. >> >>Mathieu Heintz At 10:45 PM 11/7/2009 -0500, you wrote: >From: Bryan Martin >Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 >Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 22:45:54 -0500 >To: zenith601-list@matronics.com >Sender: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com >X-Spam-Flag: YES >X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=5.30 required=4.00 >tests=LOCALPART_IN_SUBJECT,BAYES_05,SPF_PASS,NO_RDNS2,OTHER > version=3.2.1 >X-Spam-Level: ***** >X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (1.0) on mail.rkymtn.net > > >The FAA may be able to ground 601s with S-LSA certificates but they >have no authority to ground all E-AB 601s because there is no type >certificate to take action against. The FAA would have to ground each >individual E-AB on a case by case basis since each one is considered a >one of a kind airplane. Besides which, during phase 1 testing I have >flown my airplane to 4 Gs at a gross weight of 1320 lbs and have flown >it to 110% of my stated Vne. I have carefully and systematically test >flown my plane to the limits of its documented flight envelope and am >confident that it is airworthy if flown within that envelope. I see no >reason to reduce my flight envelope. I am the manufacturer, it is my >decision to make, no one else's. Terry Phillips ZBAGer ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; waiting on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:33 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs From: "dougsire" Rick, I would be interested in considering the Grove gear. Then I would just need to figure out what to do with my current, standard, gear. I think it is too big for the slot at the recycling center. -------- Doug Sire 601XL Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272158#272158 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:38 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Retrofitting Wing Lockers with the Upgrade From: "GLJSOJ1" For those of you on the fence about the wing lockers, I can get into a lot of my wings with the lockers open to fish out cables wires and such. Saved me a couple of times building. -------- 601XL N676L FLYING PHASE I CHESAPEAKE VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272159#272159 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:06 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: FAA grounds 601 and 650 On Tuesday 10 November 2009 16:13, Terry Phillips wrote: > >>I was forwarded your comments on the Matronics list and has very happy to > >>see that you are in full support of the upgrade. > >>We estimate that the upgrade parts will be significantly less than $1,000 > >>USD as we will be supplying them at cost. Supplying them at materials cost is a step in the right direction. It's necessary, but whether or not it is acceptable remains to be seen. Meanwhile, I've been looking at the draft drawings to see just how much it would cost me for raw stock to get on with this show. I'm reluctant to jump in to some of thease changes, because I suspect some fine tuning remains to be done. However, so far, it looks like I could do this for a heck of a lot less than $1,000. I also might be able to avoid waiting for the upgrade parts to be available. I have run into a snag: finding .093 3/4 x 3/4 6061-T6 for the spar uprights, and 1/8x1x1-1/2 for the front wing uprights and wing extrusion angle. There are some other snags, but those are things that I won't be doing for a while. I've looked at ACS, Wicks, Airparts, and a few others with no luck. Has anyone else found a potential source for these materials? -- ============================================ Do not archive. ============================================ Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA Retired aerospace technical manager Mathematics and alcohol do not mix. Do not drink and derive. ============================================ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:15 PM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs ----- Original Message ---- From: dougsire Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 4:50:21 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: update on the CH601XL--- REQUIRED MODs Rick, I would be interested in considering the Grove gear. Then I would just need to figure out what to do with my current, standard, gear. I think it is too big for the slot at the recycling center. -------- Doug Sire 601XL Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272158#272158 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.