Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:35 AM - Re: Upgrade kit (Bill Pagan)
2. 06:32 AM - Painting Rivets (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
3. 08:05 AM - Re: Upgrade kit (chuck_maggart)
4. 08:59 AM - "L" angle stiffners (Jim Belcher)
5. 09:01 AM - paint removal on upgrade (Jim Belcher)
6. 09:15 AM - Re: Upgrade kit (Sabrina)
7. 09:32 AM - Do the 601 problems extend to the UL (vbhisey)
8. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: Upgrade kit (Paul Mulwitz)
9. 11:31 AM - Re: Upgrade kit (Sabrina)
10. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Upgrade kit (Terry Phillips)
11. 02:12 PM - Re: Painting Rivets (Graeme@cole)
12. 02:20 PM - Re: Do the 601 problems extend to the UL (Carlos Sa)
13. 04:25 PM - Re: Re: Upgrade kit ()
14. 04:25 PM - Re: Painting Rivets (Jim Belcher)
15. 04:33 PM - eyeball vents (601corvair)
16. 04:33 PM - Re: Painting Rivets ()
17. 06:02 PM - Re: Painting Rivets (Craig Payne)
18. 06:28 PM - Re: Upgrade kit (Ron Lendon)
Message 1
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Looks like enough for wings but not for fuse=0A-Bill Pagan =0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: AZFlyer <millrML@AOL.com>
=0ATo: zenith601-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, January 18, 2010 11:47:06
PM=0ASubject: Zenith601-List: Upgrade kit=0A=0A--> Zenith601-List message p
osted by: "AZFlyer" <millrML@AOL.com>=0A=0AList,=0A=0ATo those who have rec
eived their upgrade kit:- Question;- Are there enough "L's" included in
the basic kit to install along the fuse side skins, as per 650 back to the
tail, recommended, or are these EXTRA $, non-standard?- Seems to me they
are recommended in one of the upgrade videos'....?=0A=0AI fully expect the
re are enough included for wing reinforcement?=0A=0AThx,=0AMike=0A=0A------
--=0AMike Miller @ millrml@aol.com=0A601 XL, 3300, Dynon=0A=0ARemember,-
"the second mouse gets the cheese"!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic
online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282183#282
=========================0A
=0A=0A
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List,
Has anyone devised an easy way to sand the paint around the drilled out rivets.
Also will it be better to paint just around the rivets and try to blend the paint
or sand the whole part and paint again??
If primer is used around the sanded area it will take more coats of paint to cover
and hide the color.
Any ideas?
Bobby
Message 3
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Mike, I picked up my upgrade kit yesterday from Zenith. I asked Roger the same
question and his reply was that the fuselage stiffeners are NOT part of the upgrade.
He had "some time to spare" and it only took him four hours. You will
have to purchase additional stiffeners to do the fuselage mod.
Chuck Maggart, Jabiru, finished except for update
--------
Chuck Maggart
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282232#282232
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| Subject: | "L" angle stiffners |
On Monday 18 January 2010 22:47:06 AZFlyer wrote:
>
> List,
>
> To those who have received their upgrade kit: Question; Are there enough
> "L's" included in the basic kit to install along the fuse side skins, as
> per 650 back to the tail, recommended, or are these EXTRA $, non-standard?
> Seems to me they are recommended in one of the upgrade videos'....?
>
> I fully expect there are enough included for wing reinforcement?
>
Mike, when I asked Zenith on the forum page if the fuselage "L" stiffners were
a part of the modification, I was told they were not. Thus, I would be very
surprised if the material to do this is present in the parts package.
Zenith is saying that this is something you might want to do, not something
that must be done as a part of the modification.
The discussion on the forum to which I refer can be found here:
http://www.zenith.aero/forum/topics/qa-zodiac-601xl-650-for-
the?id=2606393%3ATopic%3A39383&page=-3#comments
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
601XL Builder
=======================================
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| Subject: | paint removal on upgrade |
On Tuesday 19 January 2010 08:27:12 BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote:
> List,
> Has anyone devised an easy way to sand the paint around the drilled out
> rivets. Also will it be better to paint just around the rivets and try to
> blend the paint or sand the whole part and paint again?? If primer is used
> around the sanded area it will take more coats of paint to cover and hide
> the color. Any ideas?
Most of the time, aluminum isn't sand blasted, because it removes the
protective layer of aluminum at the surface of the material. The best bet is
probably paint remover. When that's done, a wooden craft stick can be used to
scrape the paint from around the rivet.
It's a tedious process, but it's better for the metal.
Whether you repaint the whole thing, or just touch it up seems to me to be a
personal call. It's probably going to look better it if it's totally stripped
and repainted. But that's a lot of work. I doubt Zenith went that far on their
demo aircraft.
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
601XL Builder
=======================================
Message 6
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Hello guys!
Back in classes today for the first time this year...
With no Zenith upgrade kit in hand and no date offered for delivery, I canceled
it.
I am currently working on a nearly invisible (from 50') externally braced reinforcement...
the vast number of hours required to install an internal kit that
has not been proven to be or even claimed by CH to be a cure for the structural
failures is a key reason... so too, I started this project as an educational
experience and I don't see much educational value in tearing down my aircraft
and reinstalling parts that are just that much thicker when I can (hopefully)
design an easy to install externally braced alternative...
So too, my center spar and forward fuselage is so heavily modified with aluminum/foam/aluminum
reinforcement, to remove those modifications in order to install
Zenith's would add a hundred hours to the process, possibly damage the outer
skins beyond repair, and may prove no stronger.
My Phase 1 flight envelope will be limited to a small portion of the class Delta
airspace over my airport, but I can live with that.
For those with open cockpit experience, what do you think of flying an XL based
aircraft with the canopy removed (full face motorcycle helmet and parachute,
of course)? It would save me the 10-15 seconds it would take to eject the canopy
before jumping in case my calculations on the external bracing were wrong.
For those of you who have ridden a motorcycle at 120 MPH, how much different is
it than 55MPH?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282252#282252
Message 7
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| Subject: | Do the 601 problems extend to the UL |
I am in the final process of negotiating a purchase of a 601 UL. From what I have
read so far, the model with the structural problems seems to be the XL model
(except for the UK crash, which was attributed to pilot error). Am I right about
this?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282261#282261
Message 8
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Hi Sabrina,
I know you are not doing it on purpose, but you are going to make me worry
about you. I know you don't want to take your plane apart and install the
changes, but I hope you reconsider this and decide to do it anyway. While
the real usefulness of the changes is subject to question, I feel it is a
really good idea to use it. The accidents don't have much in common except
all the planes broke in the same place. That is the area that is getting
beefed up.
Maybe you would consider writing to Chris and asking him about your changes
vs. the ones he blessed. It could be he knows more than he is saying . . .
If you want to fly your Zodiac open cockpit, I suggest you install a
windshield. I have not ridden a motorcycle at 120, but I have done it over
90 and I can tell you the wind is noticeable.
I also hope we all pay attention to the experience of the modified Zodiac
XLs. If the accidents go away then I will be convinced the changes did some
good.
Paul
XL awaiting upgrade kit (promised some time in February).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sabrina
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Upgrade kit
Hello guys!
Back in classes today for the first time this year...
With no Zenith upgrade kit in hand and no date offered for delivery, I
canceled it.
I am currently working on a nearly invisible (from 50') externally braced
reinforcement... the vast number of hours required to install an internal
kit that has not been proven to be or even claimed by CH to be a cure for
the structural failures is a key reason... so too, I started this project as
an educational experience and I don't see much educational value in tearing
down my aircraft and reinstalling parts that are just that much thicker when
I can (hopefully) design an easy to install externally braced alternative...
So too, my center spar and forward fuselage is so heavily modified with
aluminum/foam/aluminum reinforcement, to remove those modifications in order
to install Zenith's would add a hundred hours to the process, possibly
damage the outer skins beyond repair, and may prove no stronger.
My Phase 1 flight envelope will be limited to a small portion of the class
Delta airspace over my airport, but I can live with that.
For those with open cockpit experience, what do you think of flying an XL
based aircraft with the canopy removed (full face motorcycle helmet and
parachute, of course)? It would save me the 10-15 seconds it would take to
eject the canopy before jumping in case my calculations on the external
bracing were wrong.
For those of you who have ridden a motorcycle at 120 MPH, how much different
is it than 55MPH?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282252#282252
Message 9
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I would be great if Zenith or AMD put out extensive videos of their test flights
like RV and published Dynon G meter logs on their upgraded aircraft... Are they
testing to +6/-4? +4/-2?
I fear more harm than good will come from opening her up. I am told that the only
common maintenance thread in every crash is that the wings were removed at
least once after being fully torqued in place. My aircraft has had the wings
torqued in place just once, and I plan on keeping it that way for now.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282289#282289
Message 10
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Don't forget the scratch build alternative to save some bucks on the L-angles.
For the price of 2'x4' sheet of .025 6061-T6 from ACS ($17), a 2x4 stud
from your local lumber yard ($2), and 5 4"-C-clamps from Harbor Freight
($25), plus your trusty Olfa cutter, you can produce 64 ft of L-angle in a
matter of a few hours using Craig Payne's technique as published in Zenair
News #169. If you've got a 4' brake, it's even easier. Craig's clever idea
works like a charm. I've even modified Craig's dies a little to try to make
Z-angle. If it works out, I'll write something up.
Terry
At 08:05 AM 1/19/2010 -0800, you wrote:
>Mike, I picked up my upgrade kit yesterday from Zenith. I asked Roger the
>same question and his reply was that the fuselage stiffeners are NOT part
>of the upgrade. He had "some time to spare" and it only took him four
>hours. You will have to purchase additional stiffeners to do the fuselage mod.
>
>Chuck Maggart, Jabiru, finished except for update
>
>--------
>Chuck Maggart
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Balancing the ailerons and working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 11
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| From: | "Graeme@cole" <graeme@coletoolcentre.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting Rivets |
you may be able to spot blast the area. you would need a rivet fitted or
the media would go through hole into wing
I don't know what blast media you would use probably Glass beads?
Just a suggestion
Graemecns
----- Original Message -----
From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:27 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Painting Rivets
List,
Has anyone devised an easy way to sand the paint around the drilled
out rivets. Also will it be better to paint just around the rivets and
try to blend the paint or sand the whole part and paint again??
If primer is used around the sanded area it will take more coats of
paint to cover and hide the color.
Any ideas?
Bobby
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
01/18/10 16:56:00
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Do the 601 problems extend to the UL |
If you are referring to the 601-HD-like model (main landing gear made of 2"
tube), you are correct. Only the XL and the 650 require the upgrade.
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
2010/1/19 vbhisey <vishwasbhisey@yahoo.com>
>
> I am in the final process of negotiating a purchase of a 601 UL. From what
> I have read so far, the model with the structural problems seems to be the
> XL model (except for the UK crash, which was attributed to pilot error). Am
> I right about this?
>
>
Message 13
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How about a front windshield and open canopy, a la WWII Navy fighters?
You get the best of both worlds. You might also want to close off the
baggage compartment.
Paul R.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sabrina<mailto:chicago2paris@msn.com>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 11:15 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Upgrade kit
<chicago2paris@msn.com<mailto:chicago2paris@msn.com>>
Hello guys!
Back in classes today for the first time this year...
With no Zenith upgrade kit in hand and no date offered for delivery, I
canceled it.
I am currently working on a nearly invisible (from 50') externally
braced reinforcement... the vast number of hours required to install
an internal kit that has not been proven to be or even claimed by CH to
be a cure for the structural failures is a key reason... so too, I
started this project as an educational experience and I don't see much
educational value in tearing down my aircraft and reinstalling parts
that are just that much thicker when I can (hopefully) design an easy to
install externally braced alternative...
So too, my center spar and forward fuselage is so heavily modified
with aluminum/foam/aluminum reinforcement, to remove those modifications
in order to install Zenith's would add a hundred hours to the process,
possibly damage the outer skins beyond repair, and may prove no
stronger.
My Phase 1 flight envelope will be limited to a small portion of the
class Delta airspace over my airport, but I can live with that.
For those with open cockpit experience, what do you think of flying an
XL based aircraft with the canopy removed (full face motorcycle helmet
and parachute, of course)? It would save me the 10-15 seconds it would
take to eject the canopy before jumping in case my calculations on the
external bracing were wrong.
For those of you who have ridden a motorcycle at 120 MPH, how much
different is it than 55MPH?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282252#282252<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282252#282252>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Painting Rivets |
On Tuesday 19 January 2010 16:09:18 you wrote:
> you may be able to spot blast the area. you would need a rivet fitted or
> the media would go through hole into wing I don't know what blast media
> you would use probably Glass beads?
> Just a suggestion
The last I remember, FAA approved media for blasting aluminum were things like
ground corn cobs and nut shells. I don't remember if glass beads were on the
list or not.
A spot blast mask such as you suggest would be a good idea.
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
601XL Builder
=======================================
Message 15
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We have two silver eyeball vents. These have fabric closures. We have since acquired
anodized black vents with metal closures and decided not to use these.
If you think you could use them contact me off list :
airvair601@yahoo.com
I'll send several photos.
regards. phill hartig
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Painting Rivets |
EEEEAAAAGGGHH!!! No, no, nooooooo Oh, the humanity!........If you're
gonna blast anything, use either walnut shells or plastic media. Glass
beads are silicon, which is just a refined type of sand. Which, as we
all know, will eat clean through the aluminum coating. The aviation
department of Harbor Freight carries walnut shells.
Paul R.
----- Original Message -----
From: Graeme@cole<mailto:Graeme@cole>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Painting Rivets
=EF=BB
you may be able to spot blast the area. you would need a rivet fitted
or the media would go through hole into wing
I don't know what blast media you would use probably Glass beads?
Just a suggestion
Graemecns
----- Original Message -----
From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net<mailto:BobbyPaulk@comcast.net>
To:
zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:27 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Painting Rivets
List,
Has anyone devised an easy way to sand the paint around the drilled
out rivets. Also will it be better to paint just around the rivets and
try to blend the paint or sand the whole part and paint again??
If primer is used around the sanded area it will take more coats of
paint to cover and hide the color.
Any ideas?
Bobby
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
- Release Date: 01/18/10 16:56:00
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 17
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Uh, what aluminum coating? Isn't 6061-T6 is the same alloy all the way
through. This is different than the Alclad sheet use in Vans kits.
-- Craig
_____
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
paulrod36@msn.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Painting Rivets
EEEEAAAAGGGHH!!! No, no, nooooooo Oh, the humanity!........If you're
gonna blast anything, use either walnut shells or plastic media. Glass
beads are silicon, which is just a refined type of sand. Which, as we
all know, will eat clean through the aluminum coating. The aviation
department of Harbor Freight carries walnut shells.
Paul R.
----- Original Message -----
From: Graeme@cole
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Painting Rivets
=EF=BB
you may be able to spot blast the area. you would need a rivet fitted or
the media would go through hole into wing
I don't know what blast media you would use probably Glass beads?
Just a suggestion
Graemecns
----- Original Message -----
From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:27 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Painting Rivets
List,
Has anyone devised an easy way to sand the paint around the drilled out
rivets. Also will it be better to paint just around the rivets and try
to blend the paint or sand the whole part and paint again??
If primer is used around the sanded area it will take more coats of
paint to cover and hide the color.
Any ideas?
Bobby
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
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title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
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ronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
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Message 18
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Sabrina,
120mph on a motorcycle puts a great deal of pressure on you. Try to deflect the
wind away from your head and shoulders. A partial windscreen with bracing should
suffice and still allow a quick exit if necessary.
Perhaps you can find someone who has a fractured canopy and you can cut what you
need from it.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/site/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282368#282368
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