Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:54 PM - Fw: Ask the Dar (Damien)
2. 04:57 PM - Re: Ask the Dar (Ron Lendon)
3. 05:18 PM - Re: Re: Ask the Dar (Damien)
4. 05:18 PM - Fw: Ask the Dar (Damien)
5. 05:32 PM - Re: Fw: Ask the Dar (Paul Mulwitz)
6. 07:02 PM - Re: Aileron balance weights (Mark Hubelbank)
7. 07:22 PM - Re: Fw: Ask the Dar (Bill Naumuk)
8. 07:32 PM - Re: AOPA (vayuwings)
9. 07:34 PM - Re: AOPA (vayuwings)
10. 07:47 PM - Re: Fw: Ask the Dar (Bill Naumuk)
11. 08:01 PM - Re: Fw: Ask the Dar (Floyd Wilkes)
Message 1
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Hey guys, I own a 601 HDS and I was considering a future switch to the
HD wings and then flying LSA. I wanted to know the procedure so I sent a
note to the "Ask the DAR" column at Kitplanes. Here is his answer. (He
sent me a personal reply, which I appreciate).
Regards,
Damien
----- Original Message -----
From: Asberry
Cc: Marc Cook
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Ask the Dar
First off, you can never "recertify" an aircraft to make it LSA. If the
aircraft meets light-sport parameters, it may be flown by a sport pilot
regardless of its classification.
To change the wings on your aircraft would require a model change by
amending the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations. This
could be done by either the FAA or a DAR holding function code 33.
However in you case this would not solve your problem as the light-sport
rules require that the aircraft must have continuously met light-sport
parameters from it's original certification. Since you aircraft has been
certificated and flying with flight characteristics outside of
light-sport rules, it could never qualify as being "light-sport
compliant."
Sorry, I know this is not the answer you're looking for.
Mel
972-784-7544
----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Cook
To: Mel Asberry
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:12 PM
Subject: Fwd: Ask the Dar
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Damien" <>
Date: March 23, 2010 6:15:01 PM PDT
To: <editorial@kitplanes.com>
Subject: Ask the Dar
Hello. I own a Zodiac 601 HDS. I am not the builder. The 601 HDS
does not qualify as LSA because of the high stall speed. I would add the
HD wings, which does qualify for LSA. Would I have to recertify the
plane to make it LSA? Does the plane need to be inspected again?
Message 2
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Damien,
Where is the letter from the DAR? It didn't come up on the web forum.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291996#291996
Message 3
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Ron:
I don't know what happened. I will try to forward it again.
Regards,
Damien
DO NOT ARCHIVE.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:57 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Ask the Dar
>
> Damien,
>
> Where is the letter from the DAR? It didn't come up on the web forum.
>
> --------
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
> Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291996#291996
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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----- Original Message -----
From: Asberry
Cc: Marc Cook
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Ask the Dar
First off, you can never "recertify" an aircraft to make it LSA. If the
aircraft meets light-sport parameters, it may be flown by a sport pilot
regardless of its classification.
To change the wings on your aircraft would require a model change by
amending the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations. This
could be done by either the FAA or a DAR holding function code 33.
However in you case this would not solve your problem as the light-sport
rules require that the aircraft must have continuously met light-sport
parameters from it's original certification. Since you aircraft has been
certificated and flying with flight characteristics outside of
light-sport rules, it could never qualify as being "light-sport
compliant."
Sorry, I know this is not the answer you're looking for.
Mel
972-784-7544
----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Cook
To: Mel Asberry
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:12 PM
Subject: Fwd: Ask the Dar
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Damien" <>
Date: March 23, 2010 6:15:01 PM PDT
To: <editorial@kitplanes.com>
Subject: Ask the Dar
Hello. I own a Zodiac 601 HDS. I am not the builder. The 601 HDS
does not qualify as LSA because of the high stall speed. I would add the
HD wings, which does qualify for LSA. Would I have to recertify the
plane to make it LSA? Does the plane need to be inspected again?
Message 5
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Hi Damien,
I'm sure the Mel is correct with regard to the actual rules.
On the other hand, if you happen across a CH601HD it might be impossible to
discover that once apon a time it had HDS wings on it. Also, some folks
seem to think an HDS actually meets the LSA definition. It is mostly a
matter of the stall speed which might be considerably different from one
home-built plane to another.
This is just one example of many I have run across where the new rules are
both unfathomable and a bit ridiculous. I think the intent was to keep
people from "Pencil whipping" planes (like C-140s) that are a bit above the
LSA definition to change them to just within the specs. This is just one of
those things that makes a lot of sense to a government bureaucrat but is
crazy to a normal person.
Good luck,
Paul
XL installing upgrade
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Damien
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 3:54 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Fw: Ask the Dar
Hey guys, I own a 601 HDS and I was considering a future switch to the HD
wings and then flying LSA. I wanted to know the procedure so I sent a note
to the "Ask the DAR" column at Kitplanes. Here is his answer. (He sent me a
personal reply, which I appreciate).
Regards,
Damien
----- Original Message -----
From: Asberry <mailto:n168tx@flytx.net>
Cc: Marc Cook <mailto:marc@kitplanes.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Ask the Dar
First off, you can never "recertify" an aircraft to make it LSA. If the
aircraft meets light-sport parameters, it may be flown by a sport pilot
regardless of its classification.
To change the wings on your aircraft would require a model change by
amending the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations. This could
be done by either the FAA or a DAR holding function code 33.
However in you case this would not solve your problem as the light-sport
rules require that the aircraft must have continuously met light-sport
parameters from it's original certification. Since you aircraft has been
certificated and flying with flight characteristics outside of light-sport
rules, it could never qualify as being "light-sport compliant."
Sorry, I know this is not the answer you're looking for.
Mel
972-784-7544
----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Cook <mailto:marc@kitplanes.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:12 PM
Subject: Fwd: Ask the Dar
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron balance weights |
Paul,
Given your experience, I think I may increase the length of the led
section a little and I may avoid the need for external side weights.
On 3/26/2010 8:29 AM, paul baker wrote:
> Mark
> the lead in the tube only goes in about 6'.We added a few weights
> then on the out side. The hole in the rear spar was enlarged just
> enough to clear the weights on the outside.This is at the end of the
> wing and does not carry much weight so it is not weakened .In the
> future if I need to
> service the balance or remove the alerion"excuse the spelling" .
> paul baker -601 flying again and enjoying every minute
> *
>
>
> *
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Ask the Dar |
Damien-
What you're going through has been revisited a couple of times a
year on this and other lists.
An HDS will absolutely qualify Light Sport using VGs ,and in many
cases without. Additionally, an HD absolutely qualifies to begin with.
The sticking point is, either configuration has to meet LS requirements
AT THE TIME the AC is issued.
My hypothesis is, HDS and other models have been happily putting
along LS legal since long before the requirements were finalized.
However, since early builders didn't have a specific stall speed goal to
shoot for, they were sloppy about what they entered into their operation
manuals and unknowingly killed half the utility and resale value of
their aircraft. It's sad there is no way correct the mistake
retroactively, but ....
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Damien
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:54 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Fw: Ask the Dar
Hey guys, I own a 601 HDS and I was considering a future switch to the
HD wings and then flying LSA. I wanted to know the procedure so I sent a
note to the "Ask the DAR" column at Kitplanes. Here is his answer. (He
sent me a personal reply, which I appreciate).
Regards,
Damien
----- Original Message -----
From: Asberry
To: dgraham7@twcny.rr.com
Cc: Marc Cook
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Ask the Dar
First off, you can never "recertify" an aircraft to make it LSA. If
the aircraft meets light-sport parameters, it may be flown by a sport
pilot regardless of its classification.
To change the wings on your aircraft would require a model change by
amending the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations. This
could be done by either the FAA or a DAR holding function code 33.
However in you case this would not solve your problem as the
light-sport rules require that the aircraft must have continuously met
light-sport parameters from it's original certification. Since you
aircraft has been certificated and flying with flight characteristics
outside of light-sport rules, it could never qualify as being
"light-sport compliant."
Sorry, I know this is not the answer you're looking for.
Mel
972-784-7544
----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Cook
To: Mel Asberry
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:12 PM
Subject: Fwd: Ask the Dar
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Damien" <>
Date: March 23, 2010 6:15:01 PM PDT
To: <editorial@kitplanes.com>
Subject: Ask the Dar
Hello. I own a Zodiac 601 HDS. I am not the builder. The 601 HDS
does not qualify as LSA because of the high stall speed. I would add the
HD wings, which does qualify for LSA. Would I have to recertify the
plane to make it LSA? Does the plane need to be inspected again?
Message 8
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|
I'd just like to suggest trying a cooling period for anyone considering canceling
membership to AOPA. There's no doubt to anyone examining our situation with
the XL that we may not get the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth
from other groups with vested interests beyond the homebuilt community and
its lack of advertising dollars.
When it comes to legal issues - and I used AOPA some years back with my color deficiency
with flying and they came to bat for me not only with letters and phone
calls, someone even visited the FSDO I was having a problem with and they
flattened the resistance immediately - and other important advocacy as pilots
we need them, just like we need EAA.
There are plenty of groups that have biases and bad members out there, I'm just
saying considering the bigger picture maybe we can influence their viewpoint
on homebuilts from our success and perseverance when we show them year after year
how strong, safe and wonderful our XL-U aircraft are.
I'm just saying...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292021#292021
Message 9
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Forgot my name-
Dave
601XL-U
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292022#292022
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Ask the Dar |
Damien-
What you're going through has been revisited a couple of times a
year on this and other lists.
An HDS will absolutely qualify Light Sport using VGs ,and in many
cases without. Additionally, an HD absolutely qualifies to begin with.
The sticking point is, either configuration has to meet LS requirements
AT THE TIME the AC is issued.
My hypothesis is, HDS and other models have been happily putting
along LS legal since long before the requirements were finalized.
However, since early builders didn't have a specific stall speed goal to
shoot for, they were sloppy about what they entered into their operation
manuals and unknowingly killed half the utility and resale value of
their aircraft. It's sad there is no way correct the mistake
retroactively, but ....
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Damien
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:54 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Fw: Ask the Dar
Hey guys, I own a 601 HDS and I was considering a future switch to the
HD wings and then flying LSA. I wanted to know the procedure so I sent a
note to the "Ask the DAR" column at Kitplanes. Here is his answer. (He
sent me a personal reply, which I appreciate).
Regards,
Damien
----- Original Message -----
From: Asberry
To: dgraham7@twcny.rr.com
Cc: Marc Cook
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Ask the Dar
First off, you can never "recertify" an aircraft to make it LSA. If
the aircraft meets light-sport parameters, it may be flown by a sport
pilot regardless of its classification.
To change the wings on your aircraft would require a model change by
amending the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations. This
could be done by either the FAA or a DAR holding function code 33.
However in you case this would not solve your problem as the
light-sport rules require that the aircraft must have continuously met
light-sport parameters from it's original certification. Since you
aircraft has been certificated and flying with flight characteristics
outside of light-sport rules, it could never qualify as being
"light-sport compliant."
Sorry, I know this is not the answer you're looking for.
Mel
972-784-7544
----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Cook
To: Mel Asberry
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:12 PM
Subject: Fwd: Ask the Dar
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Damien" <>
Date: March 23, 2010 6:15:01 PM PDT
To: <editorial@kitplanes.com>
Subject: Ask the Dar
Hello. I own a Zodiac 601 HDS. I am not the builder. The 601 HDS
does not qualify as LSA because of the high stall speed. I would add the
HD wings, which does qualify for LSA. Would I have to recertify the
plane to make it LSA? Does the plane need to be inspected again?
Message 11
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I do not recall anyone but me ever seeing my ops manual and it get revised
as needed.
Floyd Wilkes
601XL hopefully mod finished tomorrow and flying again!!
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Fw: Ask the Dar
Damien-
What you're going through has been revisited a couple of times a year on
this and other lists.
An HDS will absolutely qualify Light Sport using VGs ,and in many cases
without. Additionally, an HD absolutely qualifies to begin with. The
sticking point is, either configuration has to meet LS requirements AT THE
TIME the AC is issued.
My hypothesis is, HDS and other models have been happily putting along
LS legal since long before the requirements were finalized. However, since
early builders didn't have a specific stall speed goal to shoot for, they
were sloppy about what they entered into their operation manuals and
unknowingly killed half the utility and resale value of their aircraft. It's
sad there is no way correct the mistake retroactively, but ....
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Damien <mailto:dgraham7@TWCNY.RR.COM>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:54 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Fw: Ask the Dar
Hey guys, I own a 601 HDS and I was considering a future switch to the HD
wings and then flying LSA. I wanted to know the procedure so I sent a note
to the "Ask the DAR" column at Kitplanes. Here is his answer. (He sent me a
personal reply, which I appreciate).
Regards,
Damien
----- Original Message -----
From: Asberry <mailto:n168tx@flytx.net>
Cc: Marc Cook <mailto:marc@kitplanes.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Ask the Dar
First off, you can never "recertify" an aircraft to make it LSA. If the
aircraft meets light-sport parameters, it may be flown by a sport pilot
regardless of its classification.
To change the wings on your aircraft would require a model change by
amending the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations. This could
be done by either the FAA or a DAR holding function code 33.
However in you case this would not solve your problem as the light-sport
rules require that the aircraft must have continuously met light-sport
parameters from it's original certification. Since you aircraft has been
certificated and flying with flight characteristics outside of light-sport
rules, it could never qualify as being "light-sport compliant."
Sorry, I know this is not the answer you're looking for.
Mel
972-784-7544
----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Cook <mailto:marc@kitplanes.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:12 PM
Subject: Fwd: Ask the Dar
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Damien" <>
Subject: Ask the Dar
Hello. I own a Zodiac 601 HDS. I am not the builder. The 601 HDS does not
qualify as LSA because of the high stall speed. I would add the HD wings,
which does qualify for LSA. Would I have to recertify the plane to make it
LSA? Does the plane need to be inspected again?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronic
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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