Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:19 AM - Alieron Trim (Peter W Johnson)
2. 05:02 AM - Re: Alieron Trim (Bryan Martin)
3. 05:12 AM - Re: Alieron Trim (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 05:54 AM - Re: Alieron Trim (Mark Hubelbank)
5. 06:01 AM - Re: Aileron balance weight bolts (Mark Hubelbank)
6. 09:39 AM - Re: Alieron Trim (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
7. 10:58 AM - Re: Alieron Trim (Mark Hubelbank)
8. 03:44 PM - Re: Alieron Trim (Peter W Johnson)
9. 06:11 PM - Re: Alieron Trim (Dave Austin)
Message 1
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Hi Guys,
Having flown a few hours now, I find that, as expected, with full flap
deployed the elevator trim "bottoms out" before balanced trim is available.
I had a look at the LAA (UK) solution but found that my elevator trim tab is
already at max downward travel and butts up against the elevator. Changing
the tab horn would not make any difference to the travel available.
I have an O-200 fitted and expect there is a little more weight up front
than a Jab or similar.
What have others done? I am thinking of adding a tab to the existing trim
tab to increase its size, therefore providing more effect on the elevator.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Alieron Trim |
I riveted a sheet of aluminum onto my trim tab that just about doubled its area.
The sheet is bent downward over the trailing edge of the trim tab to provide
even more trim. I have the original small trim tab that just spans between two
of the elevator ribs. I still can't trim out the plane with full flaps unless
I have a full load and aft CG, but I usually don't use full flaps until short
final anyway so I don't mind it much.
I also have a bungee cord attached to the stick that provides some nose up trim.
It's just enough to balance the weight of the elevator (the bungee holds the
elevator in the neutral position on the ground).
On May 14, 2010, at 7:15 AM, Peter W Johnson wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> Having flown a few hours now, I find that, as expected, with full flap deployed
the elevator trim bottoms out before balanced trim is available.
>
> I had a look at the LAA (UK) solution but found that my elevator trim tab is
already at max downward travel and butts up against the elevator. Changing the
tab horn would not make any difference to the travel available.
>
> I have an O-200 fitted and expect there is a little more weight up front than
a Jab or similar.
>
> What have others done? I am thinking of adding a tab to the existing trim tab
to increase its size, therefore providing more effect on the elevator.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> Wonthaggi Australia
> http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 3
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Hi Peter,
I am currently building a Wittman Buttercup which uses springs and levers
for trim rather than an aerodynamic trim tab like the one on the Zodiac. I
don't know exactly how you might implement this kind of trim, but it is an
idea to consider.
The notion is that a spring applies force to the elevator cable to reduce
the force needed on the stick. By adding a control lever you can adjust the
amount of force applied by the spring or springs.
I have seen a variation of this idea to apply rudder trim in a Cessna
172-XP. In that case some bungee cord is used along with a lever and
retaining slots for the lever.
One advantage of using springs over tabs is the springs don't add any
aerodynamic drag.
Paul
Xl - installing upgrade
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W
Johnson
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 4:16 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Alieron Trim
Hi Guys,
Having flown a few hours now, I find that, as expected, with full flap
deployed the elevator trim "bottoms out" before balanced trim is available.
I had a look at the LAA (UK) solution but found that my elevator trim tab is
already at max downward travel and butts up against the elevator. Changing
the tab horn would not make any difference to the travel available.
I have an O-200 fitted and expect there is a little more weight up front
than a Jab or similar.
What have others done? I am thinking of adding a tab to the existing trim
tab to increase its size, therefore providing more effect on the elevator.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Alieron Trim |
Peter,
Early in the testing of my 601, I decided that not being able to
trim properly on final was not acceptable. I put in a spring to counter
balance the weight of the elivator on the ground. With that it can be
properly trimmed with flaps.
There are some pictures of this on photo.hubbles.com
On 5/14/2010 7:15 AM, Peter W Johnson wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Having flown a few hours now, I find that, as expected, with full flap
> deployed the elevator trim "bottoms out" before balanced trim is
> available.
>
> I had a look at the LAA (UK) solution but found that my elevator trim
> tab is already at max downward travel and butts up against the
> elevator. Changing the tab horn would not make any difference to the
> travel available.
>
> I have an O-200 fitted and expect there is a little more weight up
> front than a Jab or similar.
>
> What have others done? I am thinking of adding a tab to the existing
> trim tab to increase its size, therefore providing more effect on the
> elevator.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
>
> Wonthaggi Australia
>
> http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron balance weight bolts |
Steve,
I filled the tubes with lead. The right side to a depth of 6 inches
and the left side (with the trim system) to 7 inches. Then I only needed
2 plates on the right side and 4 on the left side to balance. This was
then small enough to fit through the holes as specified in the drawings.
Of course much smaller bolts were used, AN3-15 and 16 sizes.
I didn't like the idea that it would be difficult or almost
impossible to adjust the balance or for that matter even remove the
ailerons.
If I had to do it all over, I would use a 1 inch or 1 x 3/4 tube
and use all lead weight, no side weights.
On 5/8/2010 7:28 PM, Stephen R. Look wrote:
>
> I just completed the first of my aileron updates and in the course of
> playing with the balance weights couldn't find four bolts that would
> fit the job.
> I'm surprised there are not four of a kind AN3 bolts to use.
> What has been the required bolt to hold weights and was it in the
> upgrade kit?
> I've considered the possibility that the two AN3-37 are for the
> "light" aileron and the two AN3-30s are for the aileron with trim
> {which I didn't install}.
> If this is discussed in the notes or drawings, I missed it...
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
> Steve Look
> Monticello, IL
> 601XL
> "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Alieron Trim |
Do you have the old style trim tab or the new style?
In a message dated 5/14/2010 7:55:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
mhubel@nemon.com writes:
Peter,
Early in the testing of my 601, I decided that not being able to trim
properly on final was not acceptable. I put in a spring to counter balanc
e the
weight of the elivator on the ground. With that it can be properly trimme
d
with flaps.
There are some pictures of this on photo.hubbles.com
On 5/14/2010 7:15 AM, Peter W Johnson wrote:
Hi Guys,
Having flown a few hours now, I find that, as expected, with full flap
deployed the elevator trim =9Cbottoms out=9D before balanced
trim is available.
I had a look at the LAA (UK) solution but found that my elevator trim tab
is already at max downward travel and butts up against the elevator.
Changing the tab horn would not make any difference to the travel availa
ble.
I have an O-200 fitted and expect there is a little more weight up front
than a Jab or similar.
What have others done? I am thinking of adding a tab to the existing trim
tab to increase its size, therefore providing more effect on the elevato
r.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
_http://zodiac.cpc-world.com_ (http://zodiac.cpc-world.com/)
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
_mhubel@nemon.com_ (mailto:mhubel@nemon.com)
978-443-3955
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
========================
============
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
========================
============
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Alieron Trim |
Peter,
I have what I believe is the "new" style with the trim tab being
the full width on the left side.
On 5/14/2010 12:37 PM, Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote:
> Do you have the old style trim tab or the new style?
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
Message 8
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Thanks Guys,
I have the full trim tab but will add a tab to it and see how it goes. I
have full authority everywhere else except full flap on finals.
Cheers
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin
Sent: Friday, 14 May 2010 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Alieron Trim
<bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I riveted a sheet of aluminum onto my trim tab that just about doubled its
area. The sheet is bent downward over the trailing edge of the trim tab to
provide even more trim. I have the original small trim tab that just spans
between two of the elevator ribs. I still can't trim out the plane with full
flaps unless I have a full load and aft CG, but I usually don't use full
flaps until short final anyway so I don't mind it much.
I also have a bungee cord attached to the stick that provides some nose up
trim. It's just enough to balance the weight of the elevator (the bungee
holds the elevator in the neutral position on the ground).
On May 14, 2010, at 7:15 AM, Peter W Johnson wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> Having flown a few hours now, I find that, as expected, with full flap
deployed the elevator trim "bottoms out" before balanced trim is available.
>
> I had a look at the LAA (UK) solution but found that my elevator trim tab
is already at max downward travel and butts up against the elevator.
Changing the tab horn would not make any difference to the travel available.
>
> I have an O-200 fitted and expect there is a little more weight up front
than a Jab or similar.
>
> What have others done? I am thinking of adding a tab to the existing trim
tab to increase its size, therefore providing more effect on the elevator.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> Wonthaggi Australia
> http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Alieron Trim |
Adding more tab will give you more drag. Why not raise the back of the
horizontal stab to give more down bias?
Dave Austin
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