---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/20/10: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:22 AM - Re: Pushrods (Bill Steer) 2. 05:24 AM - Re: Re: upgrade question (Mark Hubelbank) 3. 05:33 AM - Re: Pushrods (Peter W Johnson) 4. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: upgrade question (Lee Steensland) 5. 10:57 AM - Re: upgrade question (Brady) 6. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: upgrade question (Terry Phillips) 7. 11:39 AM - Re: upgrade question (Ron Lendon) 8. 11:41 AM - Re: upgrade question (Brady) 9. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: upgrade question (Terry Phillips) 10. 08:57 PM - Re: upgrade question (chuck960) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:51 AM PST US From: Bill Steer Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Pushrods Well, the harmonic frequency of a beam like this is inversely proportional to the length squared, so your harmonic frequencies will be about 47% of that of the pushrod in the RV-4, assuming you use the same size tubing. Let me know if you want to know the exact frequencies. Bill On 5/19/2010 9:11 PM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote: > List > I am changing over to pushrods on the ailerons of my 601 during the > upgrade. I am planning on using 1 1/8" O.D. x .039 6061 - T6 tubing in > one piece. The overall length from center to center of the Heim > bearings is 96".the same tube is used on several RV's. The RV-4 is ~ > 66" Has anyone out there installed one piece pushrods and what size > tubing was used. The above tube is plenty strong but I am concerned > about vibration and harmonics on such a long tube. i would appreciate > it if someone could e-mail a description or photos of their > installation and how many hours they have flown. > > Thanks for any help > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:30 AM PST US From: Mark Hubelbank Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: upgrade question John, On the issue of a chucking reamer, I did use one by hand. I don't recommend it for everyone. By using the existing hole as an alignment guide and then having the hole in the new metal only 0.015 under size, it was very easy to get a clean hole. The clear issue is that one must not put any side pressure on the existing hole. That is a matter of practice. Even a hand reamer can take some metal off the existing hole if one is not careful so there is no perfect solution short of standing the wing on edge and mounting a "mini" drill press on the spar to ream out the holes. Even better would be to have a special reamer that only had cutting flukes for the first 1/8 inch and then was smooth but the same diameter. I have never heard of such a tool. -- Mark Hubelbank NorthEast Monitoring 2 Clock Tower Place Suite 555 Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA mhubel@nemon.com 978-443-3955 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:08 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Pushrods Bobby, I basically copied Bill Phillip=99s documentation using the same Vans rod ends and 1 1/8=9D tubing. I have now 8 hours on the plane and all is working well. I have flown a 601 with cables and haven=99t noticed any great difference between the two. You can download a copy of Bill=99s documentation from here http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=14337 &sid=5070ea75d7ac33d8a0d772db8f98561b I left the balance cable in situ to provide some equalising forces on the aileron bell crank. Might be a bit of an overkill. I have it tensioned to 30lbs (Zenith spec) but may be a bit much. I think if I decreased it a little the aileron feel would be a little lighter. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://zodiac.cpc-world.com From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, 20 May 2010 11:12 AM Subject: Zenith601-List: Pushrods List I am changing over to pushrods on the ailerons of my 601 during the upgrade. I am planning on using 1 1/8" O.D. x .039 6061 - T6 tubing in one piece. The overall length from center to center of the Heim bearings is 96".the same tube is used on several RV's. The RV-4 is ~ 66" Has anyone out there installed one piece pushrods and what size tubing was used. The above tube is plenty strong but I am concerned about vibration and harmonics on such a long tube. i would appreciate it if someone could e-mail a description or photos of their installation and how many hours they have flown. Thanks for any help Bobby Florida 601 XL 96 hrs before upgrade. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: upgrade question From: Lee Steensland Fortunately I'm in a fairly unique situation. I don't have the center spar installed nor the wings complete. Everything is free and away from the plane, so setting it up in a drill press is child's play (for the most part). On Thu, 2010-05-20 at 08:23 -0400, Mark Hubelbank wrote: > > John, > On the issue of a chucking reamer, I did use one by hand. I don't > recommend it for everyone. By using the existing hole as an alignment > guide and then having the hole in the new metal only 0.015 under size, > it was very easy to get a clean hole. The clear issue is that one must > not put any side pressure on the existing hole. That is a matter of > practice. Even a hand reamer can take some metal off the existing hole > if one is not careful so there is no perfect solution short of standing > the wing on edge and mounting a "mini" drill press on the spar to ream > out the holes. > Even better would be to have a special reamer that only had cutting > flukes for the first 1/8 inch and then was smooth but the same diameter. > I have never heard of such a tool. > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:41 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: upgrade question From: "Brady" JohnDRead(at)aol.com wrote: > Brady; > I would not use a chucking reamer by hand the straight flutes are designed to be driven by a machine tool such as a milling machine or a lathe. Reaming by hand is best done with a hand reamer which has spiral flutes and a taper to the diameter for a short distance. > > Regards, John > > > John, Actually that is not true, and I don't think the Reamer can tell who or what is turning it. Page 807 of the Machinery's Hand Book 26th edition says: "Hand reamers are made with both straight and helical flutes. Helical flutes provide a shearing cut and are especially useful in reaming holes having keyways or grooves, as these are bridged over by the helical flutes, thus preventing binding or chattering." Because the hole we are reaming do not have a keyway or grooves (intentionally) a spiral reamer is not necessary. But every situation is different and everyone's skill level may vary. I would expect builders to use their noggin. My advice was free and general. take it or leave it as you may. -------- Brady McCormick Poulsbo, WA www.magnificentmachine.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298343#298343 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:23:05 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: upgrade question Brady or John Assuming that one wanted to turn a chucking reamer by hand, what would you use as an handle? My reamers have round shafts whose diameter is a bit smaller than the reamer size. Terry At 10:56 AM 5/20/2010 -0700, you wrote: >JohnDRead(at)aol.com wrote: > > Brady; > > I would not use a chucking reamer by hand the straight > flutes are designed to be driven by a machine tool such as a milling > machine or a lathe. Reaming by hand is best done with a hand reamer > which has spiral flutes and a taper to the diameter for a short distance. > > > > Regards, John > > > > > > > > >John, >Actually that is not true, and I don't think the Reamer can tell who or >what is turning it. > >Page 807 of the Machinery's Hand Book 26th edition says: >"Hand reamers are made with both straight and helical flutes. Helical >flutes provide a shearing cut and are especially useful in reaming holes >having keyways or grooves, as these are bridged over by the helical >flutes, thus preventing binding or chattering." > >Because the hole we are reaming do not have a keyway or grooves >(intentionally) a spiral reamer is not necessary. > >But every situation is different and everyone's skill level may vary. >I would expect builders to use their noggin. > >My advice was free and general. >take it or leave it as you may. > >-------- >Brady McCormick >Poulsbo, WA >www.magnificentmachine.com Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done; Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: upgrade question From: "Ron Lendon" Terry Phillips wrote: > Brady or John > > Assuming that one wanted to turn a chucking reamer by hand, what would you > use as an handle? My reamers have round shafts whose diameter is a bit > smaller than the reamer size. > > Terry > > > Terry, I used a tap handle like the one in the bottom of the picture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_wrench Turned the reamer counterclockwise through existing hole till it met the new hole. Then I turned it clockwise to finish the new hole. The new hole was .015 small before reaming. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298348#298348 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:41:05 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: upgrade question From: "Brady" Terry Phillips wrote: > Brady or John > > Assuming that one wanted to turn a chucking reamer by hand, what would you > use as an handle? My reamers have round shafts whose diameter is a bit > smaller than the reamer size. > > Terry > > Terry, You can grind 4 flats on it and turn it with a tap handle. After you modify it will still be usable as in a chuck. most of mine are modified this way. -------- Brady McCormick Poulsbo, WA www.magnificentmachine.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298350#298350 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:48 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: upgrade question Thank you Brady & Ron. Between your two posts I think I get the idea. The link to wikipedia which had links to reamer articles was especially helpful. Terry At 11:40 AM 5/20/2010 -0700, Brady wrote: > > >Terry Phillips wrote: > > Brady or John > > > > Assuming that one wanted to turn a chucking reamer by hand, what would you > > use as an handle? My reamers have round shafts whose diameter is a bit > > smaller than the reamer size. > > > > Terry > > > > > > >Terry, > >You can grind 4 flats on it and turn it with a tap handle. >After you modify it will still be usable as in a chuck. > >most of mine are modified this way. > >-------- >Brady McCormick >Poulsbo, WA >www.magnificentmachine.com At 11:39 AM 5/20/2010 -0700, Ron wrote: > > >Terry Phillips wrote: > > Brady or John > > > > Assuming that one wanted to turn a chucking reamer by hand, what would you > > use as an handle? My reamers have round shafts whose diameter is a bit > > smaller than the reamer size. > > > > Terry > > > > > > > > >Terry, > >I used a tap handle like the one in the bottom of the picture. > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_wrench > >Turned the reamer counterclockwise through existing hole till it met the >new hole. Then I turned it clockwise to finish the new hole. The new >hole was .015 small before reaming. > >-------- >Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI >WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing >Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) >http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon do not archive Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done; Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:35 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: upgrade question From: "chuck960" Why do the bolts have to be smaller than 3/8"? Is it edge distance that is the problem? With all the drilling and back drilling it's hard to get a perfect hole. The bolt may seem tight but the hole might not be uniform through many layers of material. I thought of drilling a larger hole after all the 5/16 bolts are in place by removing one bolt at a time. A 3/8 bolt is much stronger than 5/16. Chuck Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298400#298400 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.