---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/27/10: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:19 AM - Re: Aileron Stop after Mod (Ron Lendon) 2. 08:19 AM - Looking for wiring ideas (w8n2bup) 3. 08:51 AM - Re: Looking for wiring ideas (Bill Naumuk) 4. 09:11 AM - Re: Looking for wiring ideas (Michel Therrien) 5. 11:41 AM - Re: Looking for wiring ideas (Larry McFarland) 6. 12:08 PM - Bad takeoff, but still good landing (Michel Therrien) 7. 01:49 PM - Re: Bad takeoff, but still good landing (Larry McFarland) 8. 04:53 PM - Re: Bad takeoff, but still good landing (Michel Therrien) 9. 05:22 PM - Re: Bad takeoff, but still good landing (Tim Juhl) 10. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: Bad takeoff, but still good landing (Michel Therrien) 11. 06:43 PM - Re: Bad takeoff, but still good landing (PatrickW) 12. 10:18 PM - Re: Bad takeoff, but still good landing (Bryan Martin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:34 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Aileron Stop after Mod From: "Ron Lendon" This is from memory, I think the aileron movement is 11.5 degrees up and 11.5 degrees down. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299051#299051 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:54 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Looking for wiring ideas From: "w8n2bup" I have completed most of the fuselage now and am at the point where I need to start running some wires, i.e. elevator trim, tail light, flap motor. I can see that there are many avenues from the elevator trim tab to the front. I have a center stick and plan to put the trims on it unless there is some better reason to put them on the panel. I would appreciate suggestions on type of clips, grommets, tabs, splices at the motor end, etc. as there seem to be several possibilities from the hardware store to Wicks. I especially would like a good route from tail to stick. I don't know which side might be best to run down a longeron or when to go through or around a bulkhead or if I need to go past the stick and then back again on the floor or even when /where it will drop to floor. I can figure a route for the wing wires but need some possibilities for the tail and flap motor. Thanks again for ideas/products. John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299053#299053 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:14 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Looking for wiring ideas John B+C Specialty has generic schematics available free at their site, and many of the necessary components you'll need. Shouldn't take much to modify to fit your situation, and they're good people. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "w8n2bup" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:19 AM Subject: Zenith601-List: Looking for wiring ideas > > I have completed most of the fuselage now and am at the point where I need > to start running some wires, i.e. elevator trim, tail light, flap motor. I > can see that there are many avenues from the elevator trim tab to the > front. I have a center stick and plan to put the trims on it unless there > is some better reason to put them on the panel. I would appreciate > suggestions on type of clips, grommets, tabs, splices at the motor end, > etc. as there seem to be several possibilities from the hardware store to > Wicks. I especially would like a good route from tail to stick. I don't > know which side might be best to run down a longeron or when to go through > or around a bulkhead or if I need to go past the stick and then back again > on the floor or even when /where it will drop to floor. I can figure a > route for the wing wires but need some possibilities for the tail and flap > motor. Thanks again for ideas/products. John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299053#299053 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:15 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Looking for wiring ideas Hi John, I think I have detailed pictures of how I did it on my web site. I used the MS21919 a lot... ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby --- On Thu, 5/27/10, w8n2bup wrote: ...> there is some better reason to put them on the panel. I > would appreciate suggestions on type of clips, grommets, > tabs, splices at the motor end, etc. as there seem to be > several possibilities from the hardware store to Wicks. I > especially would like a good route from tail to stick. I ...> > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:41:51 AM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Looking for wiring ideas Hi John, I've got an electrical page on my site, www.macsmachine.com, that might help you with the methodology of running wires throughout the plane. Some electrical diagrams that may be helpful too. Pictures clicked go large for a better view and perhaps there and other pages will help you with specific routing etc. See link, http://www.macsmachine.com/html/electrical.htm Best regards, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com w8n2bup wrote: > > I have completed most of the fuselage now and am at the point where I need to start running some wires, i.e. elevator trim, tail light, flap motor. I can see that there are many avenues from the elevator trim tab to the front. > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:28 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Zenith601-List: Bad takeoff, but still good landing Last sunday was a beautiful day here in my region and I couldn't resist flying after completing the engine portion of my annual inspection. I changed the oil, tested the compression (150 +-5 on all cylinders), timing OK, removed valve covers... all neat, cleaned air filter, etc, etc... all was GREAT :-) Well, I did my preflight inspection, did my runnup (at about 3600 rpm) near runway 15 of Beloeil airport, positioned myself on the runway and applied full throttle. The feeling of accelerating and taking off on such a beautiful day was enjoyable... for about 4 seconds... I climbed to about 5 feet in the air and then, total loss of power (like lack of fuel). I was getting close to mid-runway (maybe even past it... don't remember), and I pulled the throttle, and landed the plane. The engine was still running at low rpm. Then I went to an area to check the engine behavior... when I raised the throttle above 4000 rpm, it would do the same thing. I then tried at lower rpms... would just take more time and at about 2100 rpm, the engine would run smooth, miss and run smooth again. My first idea was the fuel supply... so I disconnected the fuel line and filter from the carburetor and tested the fuel flow.. very good.. certainly, the issue is not that. I then removed the top of the carburetor (Holley 5200) to see if the bowl has fuel and to see if the float valve operates properly... bowl was OK (but with some small debrits on the bottom) and floats appeared to work OK (I applied fuel pressure while playing with float movement and making a mess besides the catch can I was using). My questions: what failures could create this condition? 1. fuel system ? (I think so) 2. ignition system ? 3. cam shaft ? 4. ? Oh... a funny thing... I'm surprised to notice I did not get excited through this... I don't think my heart beat got any faster during that failure. I got a strange feeling that I'll miss many good days of flying opportunities now. ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:00 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Bad takeoff, but still good landing Michel, I'd look for a fuel restriction in the line, gascolator, filter or anywhere ahead of the carb. This doesn't sound like an ignition, choke or spark type failure. A fuel restriction would allow you to get full throttle until the engine need gets ahead of the flow. Then it would starve itself at full setting after running full out for a short time. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Michel Therrien wrote: > > Last sunday was a beautiful day here in my region and I couldn't resist flying after completing the engine portion of my annual inspection. I changed the oil, tested the compression (150 +-5 on all cylinders), timing OK, removed valve covers... all neat, cleaned air filter, etc, etc... all was GREAT :-) > > Well, I did my preflight inspection, did my runnup (at about 3600 rpm) near runway 15 of Beloeil airport, positioned myself on the runway and applied full throttle. The feeling of accelerating and taking off on such a beautiful day was enjoyable... for about 4 seconds... I climbed to about 5 feet in the air and then, total loss of power (like lack of fuel). I was getting close to mid-runway (maybe even past it... don't remember), and I pulled the throttle, and landed the plane. The engine was still running at low rpm. > > ---------------------------- > Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:27 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Bad takeoff, but still good landing Indeed that was my first impression. The symptom is exactly it. I did check the fuel flow right at the carb (disconnected the filter from the carb, put the hose towards a container and activated each fuel pump) and all was nice. I did check the float action and flow control of the float mechanism (as much as I could do it). I suspect a carburetor defect, but I'm wondering it this could be anything else. At the parking lot, I tested the operation with my three fuel pumps and my two ignition.. none would change anything in that bad engine behavior. ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby --- On Thu, 5/27/10, Larry McFarland wrote: > From: Larry McFarland > Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Bad takeoff, but still good landing > To: zenith601-list@matronics.com > Received: Thursday, May 27, 2010, 4:46 PM > --> Zenith601-List message posted > by: Larry McFarland > > > Michel, > I'd look for a fuel restriction in the line, gascolator, > filter or anywhere ahead of the carb. This doesn't sound > like an ignition, choke or spark type failure. > A fuel restriction would allow you to get full throttle > until the engine need gets ahead of the flow. Then it would > starve itself at full setting after running full out > for a short time. > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > Michel Therrien wrote: > Therrien > > > > Last sunday was a beautiful day here in my region and > I couldn't resist flying after completing the engine portion > of my annual inspection. I changed the oil, tested the > compression (150 +-5 on all cylinders), timing OK, removed > valve covers... all neat, cleaned air filter, etc, > etc... all was GREAT :-) > > > > Well, I did my preflight inspection, did my > runnup (at about 3600 rpm) near runway 15 of Beloeil > airport, positioned myself on the runway and applied full > throttle. The feeling of accelerating and taking off > on such a beautiful day was enjoyable... for about 4 > seconds... I climbed to about 5 feet in the air and then, > total loss of power (like lack of fuel). I was getting > close to mid-runway (maybe even past it... don't remember), > and I pulled the throttle, and landed the plane. > The engine was still running at low rpm. > > ---------------------------- > > Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ > >http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 > >http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:56 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Bad takeoff, but still good landing From: "Tim Juhl" Did you check that your tank vents were not plugged up? Mud dauber wasps have been known plug them up. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Tearing wings apart for modification Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299097#299097 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:34 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Bad takeoff, but still good landing Yes, I did.. forgot to mention. Thanks Tim. ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby --- On Thu, 5/27/10, Tim Juhl wrote: >> Did you check that your tank vents were not plugged > up? Mud dauber wasps have been known plug them up. > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:13 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Bad takeoff, but still good landing From: "PatrickW" Heat source near a fuel line causing vapor lock (possibly a dislodged heat shield)? Air leak in the intake manifold? Hope you find the solution. Let us know what it is when you find it... - Pat -------- Patrick XL/650/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299103#299103 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:48 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Bad takeoff, but still good landing You would get similar symptoms if the air filter was clogged up or the exhaust system was partially blocked. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge installed? A fuel pressure pickup just before the carburetor would give a valuable indication of fuel system performance. On May 27, 2010, at 3:07 PM, Michel Therrien wrote: > > > Well, I did my preflight inspection, did my runnup (at about 3600 rpm) near runway 15 of Beloeil airport, positioned myself on the runway and applied full throttle. The feeling of accelerating and taking off on such a beautiful day was enjoyable... for about 4 seconds... I climbed to about 5 feet in the air and then, total loss of power (like lack of fuel). I was getting close to mid-runway (maybe even past it... don't remember), and I pulled the throttle, and landed the plane. The engine was still running at low rpm. > > Then I went to an area to check the engine behavior... when I raised the throttle above 4000 rpm, it would do the same thing. I then tried at lower rpms... would just take more time and at about 2100 rpm, the engine would run smooth, miss and run smooth again. > > > My questions: what failures could create this condition? > 1. fuel system ? (I think so) > 2. ignition system ? > 3. cam shaft ? > 4. ? > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.