Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:31 AM - AN-3 nyloc nut torque (chris Sinfield)
2. 05:01 AM - Re: AN-3 nyloc nut torque (Terry Phillips)
3. 05:38 AM - Re: AN-3 nyloc nut torque (Floyd Wilkes)
4. 09:59 AM - Upgrade Tools list on Matronics Wiki (Terry Phillips)
5. 02:21 PM - Re: Upgrade Question - Main Spar Carry Through (Louie928)
6. 02:35 PM - Re: Upgrade Tools list on Matronics Wiki (Louie928)
7. 02:51 PM - Re: Upgrade Tools list on Matronics Wiki (Iberplanes IGD - Alberto Martin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | AN-3 nyloc nut torque |
people
what torque are you doing these little nuts up to with the .125 th spar plate?
on the AC43-13B it talks about 25"lb. Zenith construction standards the same.
Problem is they are still loose when the torque wrench clicks, not bottomed out,
loose.
some one suggested adding the friction TQ of the nut. to the published TQ
The good book AC 43 said max 40"lb. So what have others been using as the TQ value??
At 40 its firm and you can still move the whole bolt and nut a little with
a spanner if u rotate the head.
the A4's are OK just the little A3's that worry me, logic says you should not be
able to move the bolt when done up to the correct torque.
Am I over worried?
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300106#300106
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AN-3 nyloc nut torque |
Hi Chris
I used the info from Zenair's construction standard CS#407, which says:
>Drag torque. Run the nut down to near contact with the washer and check
>the friction drag torque required to turn the nut. Add the drag torque to
>the desired torque. This is referred to as the final torque which should
>register on the indicator or setting on the torque wrench.
And, as you note, CS#407 specifies 20-25 in-lbs for AN3's with AN365 nuts.
The problem is, I do not see any way to measure the drag torque with a
"click" type torque wrench. So I chose a "beam" type wrench, the Park TW-1,
IIRC. It is actually sold as a bike tool, ~$40 USD.
With my bolts, nuts, and wrench, I measure a drag torque of ~4 in-lb, so I
torqued my AN3 to between 25 and 30 in-lb. That nut and bolt seem to be
plenty tight to me. Perhaps your click wrench is not accurate in the low
in-lb ranges.
Terry
At 04:29 AM 6/5/2010 -0700, you wrote:
>people
>what torque are you doing these little nuts up to with the .125 th spar plate?
>on the AC43-13B it talks about 25"lb. Zenith construction standards the
>same. Problem is they are still loose when the torque wrench clicks, not
>bottomed out, loose.
>some one suggested adding the friction TQ of the nut. to the published TQ
>
>The good book AC 43 said max 40"lb. So what have others been using as the
>TQ value?? At 40 its firm and you can still move the whole bolt and nut a
>little with a spanner if u rotate the head.
>
>the A4's are OK just the little A3's that worry me, logic says you should
>not be able to move the bolt when done up to the correct torque.
>Am I over worried?
>Chris.
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 3
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| Subject: | AN-3 nyloc nut torque |
Chris,
Make sure you have the correct length bolt. If the bolt is too long, the
nut will hit the shoulder and not allow it to become tight. You are correct
you will not be able to move the bolt if all is right.
Floyd Wilkes
601XL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris
Sinfield
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 6:29 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: AN-3 nyloc nut torque
--> <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
people
what torque are you doing these little nuts up to with the .125 th spar
plate?
on the AC43-13B it talks about 25"lb. Zenith construction standards the
same. Problem is they are still loose when the torque wrench clicks, not
bottomed out, loose.
some one suggested adding the friction TQ of the nut. to the published TQ
The good book AC 43 said max 40"lb. So what have others been using as the TQ
value?? At 40 its firm and you can still move the whole bolt and nut a
little with a spanner if u rotate the head.
the A4's are OK just the little A3's that worry me, logic says you should
not be able to move the bolt when done up to the correct torque.
Am I over worried?
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300106#300106
Message 4
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| Subject: | Upgrade Tools list on Matronics Wiki |
I am working my 601XL upgrade.
A critical piece of information that I have not found in the Zenair upgrade
dwgs and the Photo Assembly Guides is a list of the tools needed to perform
the upgrades. I have been buying tools that I think will be useful. Some of
them have been vital to my work. Others have been a waste of money, at
least for the upgrade. I think that a tool list would be useful for
upgraders, so I put together an Excel worksheet summarizing my experience
with the tools I've purchased, good and bad. I've included my personal
rating of each tool, as well as, cost and ordering links.
I think that the Matronics Wiki provides an excellent vehicle to share this
information with the 601XL/650 community, because a Wiki lends itself to
editing--both revisions and additions--so any of you can weigh in with your
experience. If you've discovered a really good tool, add it to the list. If
I've panned some tool that you found useful--or vice versa, change the
rating. If you decide to edit the information, thank you, and be sure to
add your initials to the contributor's list. If you do edit the Wiki, you
might post a note with that information to the Matronics lists.
The link to the Wiki is:
http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Zenith#601XL.2F650_Upgrade_of_December_2009
I tried to add structure for adding in upgrade tips and tricks, for those
who would like to share your discoveries. I will be adding in some of my
own in the future, but I wanted to get this out there now. I hope that
those who are further along the upgrade path will add in your lessons learned.
Enjoy the build!
Terry
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Upgrade Question - Main Spar Carry Through |
Terry,
Check Jake Reyna's blog on the Zenith.aero forum. Jake has a procedure and pictures
of how he handled the placement of the holes in the center spar front flange.
Basically, he used the floor doubler as a template and drilled new holes
between the existing holes. That gave him solid material all the way through the
bottom doubler, floor, and spar flange. No dealing with having to drill through
half misaligned holes in the floor. You drill through the bottom doubler
and front spar flange on the work table, then only have to back drill through
the floor with the doubler (template) in position under the fuselage. I did mine
that way and I'm satisfied with it.
Terry Phillips wrote:
> Hi James
>
> I am far from taking my center spar apart, but I have been thinking about
> that alignment problem for a while.
>
> It seems to me that the best thing would be to actually bolt both wing
> spars to the two sides of the center spar before riveting the two sides
> together. That may be overkill, however. At a minimum, I think I'd want to
> put all 12 bolts in place on the center spar, with appropriate spacers
> between the top and bottom middle bolts, before I drilled the new doubler
> that will tie the tops of the center spar together. They must line up, and
> the holes must be tight. Since the holes are already drilled, they holes
> must be aligned before the two sides of the spar are drilled and riveted
> together.
>
> However, I haven't even looked at the instructions for upgrading the center
> spar, and it may be covered there. Let us know how you resolve this.
>
> Terry
>
>
> At 09:47 PM 6/1/2010 -0700, you wrote:
>
> > Thanks wa7dvd. That seems to be a solution as I think that the upgrade
> > manual suggests drilling through the existing holes in the forward flange
> > of the spar which will clip the old cabin floor holes. I note that in one
> > of the upgrade videos you can see that their clecos are squint because of
> > this. Is there sufficient edge distance between the old and new holes in
> > your method?
> >
> > Anyone else got a solution for the bolt hole alignment on the upgraded spar?
> >
> > James
> >
> >
>
>
> Terry Phillips
> ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
> Corvallis MT
> ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
> Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
> http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
--------
Louis W. Ott
601XL beginner Quick Build
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300156#300156
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Upgrade Tools list on Matronics Wiki |
The list looks good for starters with differences being mostly personal preference.
I'd suggest using a 4x rivet gun. The 3x will probably work ok, but the extra punch
of the 4x makes setting the #6 rivets quicker and less tendency for the gun
to bounce.
I like to use an adjustable size reamer rather than a single step fixed size. With
the adjustable, I can sneak up on the hole size to give me a better fit to
the bolt whatever small size difference it may have from it's nominal size.
I could add; Lathe, milling machine, TIG welder, metal brake, metal shear, more
rivets, longer #6 rivets than what Zenith sends. Mind reading course to help
with interpreting the drawings and instructions.
--------
Louis W. Ott
601XL beginner Quick Build
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300159#300159
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Upgrade Tools list on Matronics Wiki |
Terry,
I=B4d like to thank you very much for your list and the effort you=B4ve mad
e to
help us to build a safer plane.
I=B4m glad you=B4re me friend.
Thanks again,
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Started
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Un ingles a Tom Lucero en la guerra de Malvinas: "=A1Piloto argentino mejor
aqu=ED con nosotros en camilla. Muy peligroso arriba, en su avi=F3n!=97".
Un pasaje del libro "Dios y Los Halcones" del Com. Pablo M. Carballo
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