---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/05/10: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:55 AM - Re: 601xl down (Tim Juhl) 2. 10:12 AM - Chat Reminder (George Race) 3. 11:22 AM - Re: 601xl down (philand) 4. 01:47 PM - Re: Solid rivet confusion (JohnDRead@aol.com) 5. 01:51 PM - Re: Solid rivet confusion (JohnDRead@aol.com) 6. 03:21 PM - Re: Solid rivet confusion (fritz) 7. 04:36 PM - Re: Solid rivet confusion (Karl Polifka) 8. 07:46 PM - Re: Solid rivet confusion (fritz) 9. 08:05 PM - Re: Solid rivet confusion (Ron Lendon) 10. 08:18 PM - Re: Re: Solid rivet confusion (fritz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: 601xl down From: "Tim Juhl" I checked the NTSB, FAA Preliminary database and Google and found no mention of a accident with a 601, modified or not. There were plenty of other experimental and factory builts that met grief during the period. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Tearing wings apart for modification Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303804#303804 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:40 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith601-List: Chat Reminder Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/ DO NOT ENTER ANY PASSWORD, JUST YOUR USER NAME CHOICE Check out my line of items for Experimental Airplane Builders My Products: http://www.mykitairplane.com/Products/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:04 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: 601xl down From: "philand" After reading the post of "601xlb down", I checked the www.flightsafty.org site and there was no mention of any 601 down. The site was updated through 7/3, worldwide. Sounds like another red herring. :? Phil -------- Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303815#303815 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:41 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Solid rivet confusion Paul; Please go away. You certainly get the prize for being a pain in the butt! Why don't you buy a C-172 then you can bitch at a big boy. Regards, John CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 Cell: 719-494-4567 Home: 303-648-3261 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:47 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Solid rivet confusion I've said it before and I will repeat my statement - PILOT ERROR. You cannot expect to fly outside the recommended limits and live. which part of that needs more explanation? Regards, John CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 Cell: 719-494-4567 Home: 303-648-3261 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:21:30 PM PST US From: "fritz" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Solid rivet confusion John--- How do you have more knowlege of the aircraft accidents than the FAA??? I don't think they came to the conclusion of "pilot error". Just wondering why, you don't think Paul is entitled to his opinion? Fritz-------do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: JohnDRead@aol.com To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 4:49 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Solid rivet confusion I've said it before and I will repeat my statement - PILOT ERROR. You cannot expect to fly outside the recommended limits and live. which part of that needs more explanation? Regards, John CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 Cell: 719-494-4567 Home: 303-648-3261 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:27 PM PST US From: "Karl Polifka" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Solid rivet confusion Fritz, First, NTSB investigates accidents, not FAA. Second, the NTSB "investigation" contains questionable assertions that put their "investigation" in a very questionable light. Third, there is more to these accidents than "design flaws". You confuse countering an opinion with saying someone is not entitled to it. I have also questioned Paul's approach, in this forum and privately. There is a mix of causes for these accidents and there is no one size fits all -- part of why the NTSB report is so questionable. It would almost seem as if someone had an agenda. For starters, you might want to go back over the history of this forum for the last 14 months and see how many really stupid declarations have been made about how people fly this airplane. Unforgiveable stupidity sometimes ends in a smoking hole, and rightfully so. Karl From: fritz Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 6:18 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Solid rivet confusion John--- How do you have more knowlege of the aircraft accidents than the FAA??? I don't think they came to the conclusion of "pilot error". Just wondering why, you don't think Paul is entitled to his opinion? Fritz-------do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: JohnDRead@aol.com To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 4:49 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Solid rivet confusion I've said it before and I will repeat my statement - PILOT ERROR. You cannot expect to fly outside the recommended limits and live. which part of that needs more explanation? Regards, John CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 Cell: 719-494-4567 Home: 303-648-3261 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:43 PM PST US From: "fritz" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Solid rivet confusion Karl, thanks for the reply. I stand corrected for FAA/ NTSB. I knew better, but had a "senior moment". I will bow out of this discussion as I don't want to start any "heated arguments". I think that after the unforunate XL accidents and grounding, all has been said that needs to be said. Best of luck and happy flying, Fritz---- do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Polifka To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 7:28 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Solid rivet confusion Fritz, First, NTSB investigates accidents, not FAA. Second, the NTSB "investigation" contains questionable assertions that put their "investigation" in a very questionable light. Third, there is more to these accidents than "design flaws". You confuse countering an opinion with saying someone is not entitled to it. I have also questioned Paul's approach, in this forum and privately. There is a mix of causes for these accidents and there is no one size fits all -- part of why the NTSB report is so questionable. It would almost seem as if someone had an agenda. For starters, you might want to go back over the history of this forum for the last 14 months and see how many really stupid declarations have been made about how people fly this airplane. Unforgiveable stupidity sometimes ends in a smoking hole, and rightfully so. Karl From: fritz Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 6:18 PM To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Solid rivet confusion John--- How do you have more knowlege of the aircraft accidents than the FAA??? I don't think they came to the conclusion of "pilot error". Just wondering why, you don't think Paul is entitled to his opinion? Fritz-------do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: JohnDRead@aol.com To: zenith601-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 4:49 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Solid rivet confusion I've said it before and I will repeat my statement - PILOT ERROR. You cannot expect to fly outside the recommended limits and live. which part of that needs more explanation? Regards, John CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 Cell: 719-494-4567 Home: 303-648-3261 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:06 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Solid rivet confusion From: "Ron Lendon" Geezers guys, you have stolen the thread from Tim and others. This discussion is about Solid rivets. If ya want to rant do it some where else. The primary purpose of the site is to keep valuable BUILDING information available for new people and to assist each other in BUILDING. Give it a rest. Think before you type OK, at least start another thread so I and others can breeze by your concerns. do not archive -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303874#303874 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:21 PM PST US From: "fritz" Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Solid rivet confusion Ron---- I agree and many years ago said the same thing you have just said. The only reason I continued it under the original heading is: once you change the heading, you loose the continuity of it in a "search"---- and only part of the story gets told. Have a good day. Fritz--------- do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lendon" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 11:03 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Solid rivet confusion > > Geezers guys, you have stolen the thread from Tim and others. This > discussion is about Solid rivets. If ya want to rant do it some where > else. > > The primary purpose of the site is to keep valuable BUILDING information > available for new people and to assist each other in BUILDING. > > Give it a rest. Think before you type OK, at least start another thread so > I and others can breeze by your concerns. > > do not archive > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing > Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303874#303874 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.