Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:33 AM - Chat Room Comments (George Race)
2. 06:47 AM - Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. (alsmith)
3. 07:38 AM - Upgraded Kits for 601 HD and HDS (Damien)
4. 07:39 AM - Re: Chat Room Comments (Jim Belcher)
5. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. (Paul Mulwitz)
6. 08:56 AM - Re: Chat Room Comments (Craig Payne)
7. 09:08 AM - Re: Chat Room Comments (Paul Mulwitz)
8. 11:43 AM - Minor upgrade question (Stephen R. Look)
9. 01:05 PM - Re: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. (erapp57@aol.com)
10. 02:23 PM - Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. (Tim Juhl)
11. 02:58 PM - Re: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. (Floyd Gantt)
12. 03:27 PM - Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. (Ron Lendon)
13. 03:34 PM - Re: Minor upgrade question (Ron Lendon)
14. 07:05 PM - Re: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. (Mark Hubelbank)
15. 07:49 PM - Re: Chat Room Comments (PatrickW)
16. 08:37 PM - Re: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. (Bryan Martin)
17. 08:48 PM - Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. (Sabrina)
18. 09:23 PM - Re: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. (Paul Mulwitz)
19. 11:04 PM - Official Zenith601-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
20. 11:10 PM - Official Zenith601-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Chat Room Comments |
Hello to all:
Hope many of you have had a great adventure to the annual Oshkosh happening.
Some have flamed me, both publicly and privately, for cluttering up the
"List" with my weekly Chat Room reminder messages. Some of you have told me
that it really serves no purpose other than giving me a place to talk about
and advertise my products. Some of you have expressed how much you enjoy
the chat room.
The chat room has been going on for over two years, and there have been a
lot of collective users. Some are very regular and hardly ever miss; others
have stopped by from time to time. It is a great place to bring up thoughts
and ideas about building your Zenith Airplane. Over the past months many
suggested solutions to questions ask have been offered. It is also a great
place to find out, in a 1 on 1 type of situation, how your friends build is
progressing.
For the last two weeks I have not sent out any Chat Room notices. For the
last two weeks no one has shown up for the Monday evening chat room, other
than me. I know that Oshkosh takes a lot of you away from your keyboard and
screen. For others this is also family vacation time of year.
I guess it is time to ask some questions about the chat room operation.
Is it time to abandon the chat room?
Should the chat room continue but maybe at a different day and time?
Is there a problem with the format of the chat room?
Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated, both publically and
private.
My direct email address is: George@MrRace.Com if you wish to comment
directly to me.
This is also a reminder that the Chat Room will be open for business, Monday
evening, August 2nd, and 8:00 Eastern Time.
Hope to see many of you there and hear about your Oshkosh adventures!
George
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
I found it interesting that Zenith did not bring a 601 or 650 to Air Venture.
Additionaly AMD did not display any factory built 650's.
No updates in the assenmbly manuals for the 650 have been published.
It is my belief that the low wing series will soon be dropped as an offering
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307035#307035
Message 3
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| Subject: | Upgraded Kits for 601 HD and HDS |
I fell in love with the Zodiac 601 HD 20 years ago. I currently own a 601
HDS that I bought last year from the
builder. They are both great airplanes and they both seem to be still
available from Zenith. Perhaps they
are not fancy enough for today's market, but I wonder if it would be
worthwhile for Zenith to feature the
HD and HDS as their low wing models. If they were to feature upgraded kits
for the HD and HDS in the manner that they have
for the CH 750, I think that they would have a couple of solid, attractive
kits.
Regards,
Damien Graham
Watertown, NY
----- Original Message -----
From: "alsmith" <alan.smith@nutreco.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:46 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
>
> I found it interesting that Zenith did not bring a 601 or 650 to Air
> Venture.
>
> Additionaly AMD did not display any factory built 650's.
>
> No updates in the assenmbly manuals for the 650 have been published.
>
> It is my belief that the low wing series will soon be dropped as an
> offering
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307035#307035
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Chat Room Comments |
The only problem I saw with the chat room was technical. It would periodically
log me out or drop me without warning. Others complained of the same thing.
I tried different operating systems and different configurations, thinking the
problem might be on my end. None of these attempts made any noticeable
difference.
That has been a factor in my recent absence from the chat room, but the biggie
has simply been that I've been busy. Your chat room reminders made the
difference between me visiting and not visiting the chat room. If I had time,
and got the reminder, I visited. Without a reminder, I'd forget it.
I think your chat room, while it may not attract the masses of individuals, is
a valuable addition to the Zenith community. Thanks for providing it this
long!
On Sunday 01 August 2010 07:32:31 you wrote:
> Hello to all:
>
>
>
> Hope many of you have had a great adventure to the annual Oshkosh
> happening.
>
>
>
> Some have flamed me, both publicly and privately, for cluttering up the
> "List" with my weekly Chat Room reminder messages. Some of you have told
> me that it really serves no purpose other than giving me a place to talk
> about and advertise my products. Some of you have expressed how much you
> enjoy the chat room.
>
>
>
> The chat room has been going on for over two years, and there have been a
> lot of collective users. Some are very regular and hardly ever miss;
> others have stopped by from time to time. It is a great place to bring up
> thoughts and ideas about building your Zenith Airplane. Over the past
> months many suggested solutions to questions ask have been offered. It is
> also a great place to find out, in a 1 on 1 type of situation, how your
> friends build is progressing.
>
>
>
> For the last two weeks I have not sent out any Chat Room notices. For the
> last two weeks no one has shown up for the Monday evening chat room, other
> than me. I know that Oshkosh takes a lot of you away from your keyboard
> and screen. For others this is also family vacation time of year.
>
>
>
> I guess it is time to ask some questions about the chat room operation.
>
>
>
> Is it time to abandon the chat room?
>
>
>
> Should the chat room continue but maybe at a different day and time?
>
>
>
> Is there a problem with the format of the chat room?
>
>
>
> Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated, both publically and
> private.
>
>
>
> My direct email address is: George@MrRace.Com if you wish to comment
> directly to me.
>
>
>
> This is also a reminder that the Chat Room will be open for business,
> Monday evening, August 2nd, and 8:00 Eastern Time.
>
>
>
> Hope to see many of you there and hear about your Oshkosh adventures!
>
> George
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
Semi-proficient Househusband
=======================================
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
On the other hand, the Piper Sport seems to be going great guns. This is
obviously a close copy of the XL. I looked at one at OSH and saw that the
center console is an exact copy. There are a few notable differences like
the wing tips, but this is a very close cousin to the XL designed and built
by a company that, until recently, manufactured and sold XLs to the European
market.
I believe Piper has already shipped more of these planes than the Cessna
S-LSA (C-162?). I don't know of any problems with the Sport Cruiser from
CZAW which is (I believe) the same plane as the Piper Sport. My wild guess
is that the C-162 will fade away (they only have shipped about 6 of these
planes even though there are many hundreds of deposits) and the Piper Sport
will be wildly successful. The big attraction of the Cessna was the
Continental engine that the FBOs are already comfortable with and the Piper
uses the Rotax that is so popular with the remaining LSA fleet. That same
engine choice means approximately 100 pounds of extra empty weight in the
Cessna which is a whole lot for an LSA.
So, the general XL design lives on even though it may not have much future
at AMD or Zenith.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of alsmith
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 6:47 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
I found it interesting that Zenith did not bring a 601 or 650 to Air
Venture.
Additionaly AMD did not display any factory built 650's.
No updates in the assenmbly manuals for the 650 have been published.
It is my belief that the low wing series will soon be dropped as an offering
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307035#307035
Message 6
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| Subject: | Chat Room Comments |
I don't attend the chat room but the reminders do not bother me at all.
I say carry on.
-- Craig
On Sunday 01 August 2010 07:32:31 you wrote:
> Hello to all:
>
>
>
> Hope many of you have had a great adventure to the annual Oshkosh
> happening.
>
>
>
> Some have flamed me, both publicly and privately, for cluttering up
> the "List" with my weekly Chat Room reminder messages. Some of you
> have told me that it really serves no purpose other than giving me a
> place to talk about and advertise my products. Some of you have
> expressed how much you enjoy the chat room.
>
>
>
> The chat room has been going on for over two years, and there have
> been a lot of collective users. Some are very regular and hardly ever
> miss; others have stopped by from time to time. It is a great place
> to bring up thoughts and ideas about building your Zenith Airplane.
> Over the past months many suggested solutions to questions ask have
> been offered. It is also a great place to find out, in a 1 on 1 type
> of situation, how your friends build is progressing.
>
>
>
> For the last two weeks I have not sent out any Chat Room notices. For
> the last two weeks no one has shown up for the Monday evening chat
> room, other than me. I know that Oshkosh takes a lot of you away from
> your keyboard and screen. For others this is also family vacation time of
year.
>
>
>
> I guess it is time to ask some questions about the chat room operation.
>
>
>
> Is it time to abandon the chat room?
>
>
>
> Should the chat room continue but maybe at a different day and time?
>
>
>
> Is there a problem with the format of the chat room?
>
>
>
> Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated, both publically and
> private.
>
>
>
> My direct email address is: George@MrRace.Com if you wish to comment
> directly to me.
>
>
>
> This is also a reminder that the Chat Room will be open for business,
> Monday evening, August 2nd, and 8:00 Eastern Time.
>
>
>
> Hope to see many of you there and hear about your Oshkosh adventures!
>
> George
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
Semi-proficient Househusband
=======================================
Message 7
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| Subject: | Chat Room Comments |
George,
I would encourage you to continue sending out the messages inviting folks to
the chat room. I suspect the room changes address from time to time and
apparently the reminders get you more participants.
For those of us who are recovering computer geeks it is very simple to
automatically direct your reminders to the trash just like I do with some
other regular messages.
I have never been to the chat because I like email and expect there would be
many people at any chat who would love to flame me the whole time I was
there. I don't need that kind of grief.
Regards,
Paul
>
> For the last two weeks I have not sent out any Chat Room notices. For
> the last two weeks no one has shown up for the Monday evening chat
> room, other than me. I know that Oshkosh takes a lot of you away from
> your keyboard and screen. For others this is also family vacation time of
year.
>
>
>
>
> Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated, both publically and
> private.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Minor upgrade question |
On page 6-ZU-2 it shows the addition of two A5 rivets in the 6W4-4
uprights. It doesn't say anything about a spacer to fill the gap that
is at that location.
What have you other updater folks done there?
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Interesting, the AMD web site is down.
-----Original Message-----
From: alsmith <alan.smith@nutreco.com>
Sent: Sun, Aug 1, 2010 9:46 am
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
I found it interesting that Zenith did not bring a 601 or 650 to Air Ventu
re.
Additionaly AMD did not display any factory built 650's.
No updates in the assenmbly manuals for the 650 have been published.
It is my belief that the low wing series will soon be dropped as an offeri
ng
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307035#307035
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
I listened in to some of the chatter after the Monday Zenith forum at Oshkosh.
I don't know which of the Heintz brothers said it but one of them commented that
"Interest in the Zodiac seems to be coming back so we may start selling them
again in the near future...." I suspect they took a step back to see what
public opinion would be. After all, why offer an airplane that no one wants to
buy? If the mods do the job I suspect that we will again see the 650 parked
next to the booth in Oshkosh. They have quite an investment in tooling and materials
that I'm sure they would like to benefit from.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307092#307092
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
TimThanks for your input as a builder reading this list I had become
concerned with all the negativity of the list this last week. I am about to
order the wing kit from Zenith and this should finish my650 B. I was hoping
to hear more reports from all who have completed the upgrade and were
flying their completed planes. I believe the more positive input we have
the more confident people will be in the completion and in new orders for
the 650 B. I believe the survival of the Zenith Aircraft Company is in the
best interest of all owners. Please those flying with the upgrades please
keep posting to the list all your informations as your knowledge and
information help us all.Thanks
----------------------------------------
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 4:28 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
I listened in to some of the chatter after the Monday Zenith forum at
Oshkosh. I don't know which of the Heintz brothers said it but one of them
commented that "Interest in the Zodiac seems to be coming back so we may
start selling them again in the near future...." I suspect they took a
step back to see what public opinion would be. After all, why offer an
airplane that no one wants to buy? If the mods do the job I suspect that
we will again see the 650 parked next to the booth in Oshkosh. They have
quite an investment in tooling and materials that I'm sure they would like
to benefit from.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307092#307092
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Sabrina wrote:
> Thank you Ron. It is great to have the list back to normal.
>
> Have you find any difference in material thickness in the main spar?
Sabrina,
The rest of the materials in both the main and center spar of the Czech airplane
were the same as my prints.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307101#307101
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Minor upgrade question |
Put a spacer in.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307102#307102
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
I did the update and have the gross at 1320 with the original VNE
of 160 mph. Derating it to 1200 would not be practical as that would
make it a single person aircraft.
I believe it was effectively illegal to continue flying the
unmodified airframe although this may have been in a gray zone.
It is still my feeling that all this was unfortunately caused by
two documentation issues. Nowhere on my drawings did it say anything
about the tension on cables. Secondly, the 6G number should never be
published. "ultimate" G ratings have no meaning on in a pilots operation
manual and it should not be up the the builder to convert ultimate to
utility. This is not a 15% error but a 50% error and a operation type. A
6 G plane is the low end of aerobatics. I believe people were treating
the CH601 as an acrobatic airplane because of this number.
On 7/31/2010 12:30 PM, Sabrina wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Sabrina"<chicago2paris@msn.com>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Let's see if this list is capable of having a normal discussion among friends.
>
> How many of you out there are still flying an XL at 1320 without any modifications?
>
> How many of you would welcome a de-rate to 1200/N/140 if that meant you did not
have to modify your airplane?
>
> Does anyone have a VNE listed on their XL plans other than 180 or 160?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306960#306960
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Chat Room Comments |
I have attended the chat on many occasions, and it's a lot of fun.
To those who haven't tried it, you should. Every time is different.
It's a great opportunity to get to know fellow builders in "real time", as well
as ask and answer questions.
Nobody has ever been flamed that I have seen.
Thanks for doing this, George.
- Pat
--------
Patrick
XL/650/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307137#307137
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
It is illegal to continue flying the unmodified airplane only if it has a SLSA
or normal airworthiness certificate. It is still legal to fly the unmodified airplane
if it has an Experimental certificate. The FAA has recommended that E-AB
and ELSA versions be modified, they have not mandated it. It would be very
difficult for them to mandate the upgrade for E-AB airplanes since they would
have to do so for each individual aircraft since each one is technically a one
of a kind airplane built by an individual. Some of these airplanes don't even
have "Zodiac" or "601XL" on the certificate. If I scratch build an airplane I
can literally call it anything I want.
There are E-AB airplanes out there flying that are much more dangerous to fly than
any version of the CH601 and the FAA hasn't taken any action against them.
For instance, as far as I know, the FAA will still issue an airworthiness certificate
for a BD-5J even though these airplanes have a much higher accident rate
than the 601XL. All the uproar over the 601XL stinks of politics and tort
lawyers.
You do have a point about the 6G ultimate load factor. It seems to me that many
builders just don't understand that any version of the 601 can not be flown safely
at a 6G loading. The Zodiac is not and was never intended to be an aerobatic
airplane. Most kit airplanes were either way over-designed or deliberately
designed for aerobatic flight. Neither case applies to the Zodiac.
Another factor may be that many people don't understand what maneuvering speed
means. A common misconception is that as long as you are flying at an airspeed
below Va, it is not possible for the airplane to exceed its structural limits.
This is not correct, it is still possible to break an airplane while flying
below Va. It is usually safe to make an abrupt control input about one axis at
an airspeed below Va, but moving the controls repeatedly from stop to stop or
making abrupt control inputs about more than one axis at a time could exceed
the structural limits of the airframe.
I have determined that my airplane is safe to fly as is without further modifications.
I have flown a thorough phase 1 flight test program and determined the
safe flight envelope for my airplane. I will continue to fly it as is until
I have reason to believe that is is no longer safe to do so.
On Aug 1, 2010, at 10:04 PM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>
> I believe it was effectively illegal to continue flying the unmodified airframe
although this may have been in a gray zone.
>
> It is still my feeling that all this was unfortunately caused by two documentation
issues. Nowhere on my drawings did it say anything about the tension
on cables. Secondly, the 6G number should never be published. "ultimate" G ratings
have no meaning on in a pilots operation manual and it should not be up the
the builder to convert ultimate to utility. This is not a 15% error but a 50%
error and a operation type. A 6 G plane is the low end of aerobatics. I believe
people were treating the CH601 as an acrobatic airplane because of this number.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
do not archive.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Thank you bryanmartin!
You are my hero. :O)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307143#307143
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| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Bryan and Mark,
I believe you both have both interesting and true points.
One thing I find slightly incorrect is the idea that the FAA can't do
anything about Experimental airplanes. What they actually did was to
declare that ALL Zodiac XLs were NOT AIRWORTHY until modified and any pilot
who flies an un-airworthy plane was in violation of FARs. I realize this
was not really enforceable, but they really, really, want owners to install
the upgrade or at least do something, like Sabrina did, to acknowledge there
was a problem in this design.
Anyone who thinks they can control the FAA through interpretation of the
FARs should consider the alledged FAA motto: "We're not happy 'till you're
not happy."
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
<bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
It is illegal to continue flying the unmodified airplane only if it has a
SLSA or normal airworthiness certificate. It is still legal to fly the
unmodified airplane if it has an Experimental certificate. The FAA has
recommended that E-AB and ELSA versions be modified, they have not mandated
it. It would be very difficult for them to mandate the upgrade for E-AB
airplanes since they would have to do so for each individual aircraft since
each one is technically a one of a kind airplane built by an individual.
Some of these airplanes don't even have "Zodiac" or "601XL" on the
certificate. If I scratch build an airplane I can literally call it anything
I want.
There are E-AB airplanes out there flying that are much more dangerous to
fly than any version of the CH601 and the FAA hasn't taken any action
against them. For instance, as far as I know, the FAA will still issue an
airworthiness certificate for a BD-5J even though these airplanes have a
much higher accident rate than the 601XL. All the uproar over the 601XL
stinks of politics and tort lawyers.
You do have a point about the 6G ultimate load factor. It seems to me that
many builders just don't understand that any version of the 601 can not be
flown safely at a 6G loading. The Zodiac is not and was never intended to be
an aerobatic airplane. Most kit airplanes were either way over-designed or
deliberately designed for aerobatic flight. Neither case applies to the
Zodiac.
Another factor may be that many people don't understand what maneuvering
speed means. A common misconception is that as long as you are flying at an
airspeed below Va, it is not possible for the airplane to exceed its
structural limits. This is not correct, it is still possible to break an
airplane while flying below Va. It is usually safe to make an abrupt control
input about one axis at an airspeed below Va, but moving the controls
repeatedly from stop to stop or making abrupt control inputs about more than
one axis at a time could exceed the structural limits of the airframe.
I have determined that my airplane is safe to fly as is without further
modifications. I have flown a thorough phase 1 flight test program and
determined the safe flight envelope for my airplane. I will continue to fly
it as is until I have reason to believe that is is no longer safe to do so.
On Aug 1, 2010, at 10:04 PM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>
> I believe it was effectively illegal to continue flying the unmodified
airframe although this may have been in a gray zone.
>
> It is still my feeling that all this was unfortunately caused by two
documentation issues. Nowhere on my drawings did it say anything about the
tension on cables. Secondly, the 6G number should never be published.
"ultimate" G ratings have no meaning on in a pilots operation manual and it
should not be up the the builder to convert ultimate to utility. This is not
a 15% error but a 50% error and a operation type. A 6 G plane is the low end
of aerobatics. I believe people were treating the CH601 as an acrobatic
airplane because of this number.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
do not archive.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Official Zenith601-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith601-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Zenith601-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith601-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Zenith601-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Zenith601-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Zenith601-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
zenith601-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "zenith601-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Zenith601-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Zenith601-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/zenith601-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Zenith601-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Zenith601-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Zenith601-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Zenith601-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Zenith601-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Zenith601-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Zenith601-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Zenith601-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Zenith601-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Zenith601-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Zenith601-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Zenith601
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith601-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith601-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith601-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith601-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith601-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Official Zenith601-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith601-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith601-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith601-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith601-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith601-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith601-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith601-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith601-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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