Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:13 AM - Cable tensions (kenhaslett)
2. 03:00 PM - Re: Cable tensions (Mark Hubelbank)
3. 03:26 PM - Re: Cable tensions (Rick Lindstrom)
4. 04:47 PM - Re: Cable tensions (Larry McFarland)
5. 06:47 PM - For Sale 601 HD (Kelly Meiste)
6. 07:06 PM - 601XL Corvair combo for sale $10,000 (LHusky@aol.com)
Message 1
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Folks
I've just got my Bird back into the air after being grounded for nearly 2 years
awaiting the 'powers that B' coming up with a fix. I'm on a european register.
I set the aileron and rudder cable tensions as per Zenair but am very unhappy
with the result. The aircraft feels heavier than a C182.
Before the upgrade my aileron cables were set at 12lbs and the aircraft could be
controlled very easily using my index finger resting in the 'Y' of the control
column. The aircraft had the same feel and response to that of a modern glider.
Now I have to hold the control column in my hand and use a lot of force to
make a turn.
Same with the elevator. The trim is not as sensitive, not a bad thing, but once
again requiring a lot more effort in comparison with the previous iteration.
I'm worried that the tension is putting significant loadings on the aileron bushings,
bellcrank and supporting ribs.
Anyone else found similar problems and have they found a way round it.
Any help would be appreciated
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313205#313205
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cable tensions |
Ken,
It would seem that from the flutter analysis that 12 pounds tension
on the ailerons was determined to be near the edge of stability. As I
remember, it was just inside the stability window but with little
margin. Cable tensions that low may have contributed to some of the wing
failures that caused so many problems. I would not go anywhere near
there anymore.
I have always had the tensions set to the current (post update)
values so I can't say much about before and after but I can say that
with a bit of lubrication on all contact points, I find the ailerons to
have very low friction, nothing like a 172 "truck". I will say that
before I added the lubrication, it was a bit sticky. If you haven't
greased all points where cables rub on nylon and oiled the pins at the
cable ends, you might find that doing so will help.
I do find some friction in the rudder but that is probably from the
tension of the bungy cord on the nose wheel, not a part of the update.
The additional friction from the cable tension pulling on the nose
assembly probably does make it worse. I have some ideas on how to reduce
this but it is not so bad as to be a major problem in my case.
N708HU
Jabiru 3300
59 hours
On 09/21/2010 10:10 AM, kenhaslett wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "kenhaslett"<kenhaslett@gmail.com>
>
> Folks
>
> I've just got my Bird back into the air after being grounded for nearly 2 years
awaiting the 'powers that B' coming up with a fix. I'm on a european register.
I set the aileron and rudder cable tensions as per Zenair but am very unhappy
with the result. The aircraft feels heavier than a C182.
>
> Before the upgrade my aileron cables were set at 12lbs and the aircraft could
be controlled very easily using my index finger resting in the 'Y' of the control
column. The aircraft had the same feel and response to that of a modern glider.
Now I have to hold the control column in my hand and use a lot of force
to make a turn.
>
> Same with the elevator. The trim is not as sensitive, not a bad thing, but once
again requiring a lot more effort in comparison with the previous iteration.
>
> I'm worried that the tension is putting significant loadings on the aileron bushings,
bellcrank and supporting ribs.
>
> Anyone else found similar problems and have they found a way round it.
>
> Any help would be appreciated
>
> Ken
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313205#313205
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Cable tensions |
Hi, Mark and Ken,
Using the SWAG method, it sounds to me like Ken may have inadvertently set his
tensions too high. I seem to recall that the nosewheel needs to be fully extended
to get the rudder cable tensions right, but his issue is with aileron and
elevator control response. I have no idea what equipment was used to set the tensions,
but on my tensiometer, it's pretty easy to look at the wrong scale!
And in my conversations with the folks at Zenith after the German GVT, they said
that they really had to work hard to induce flutter with aileron cable tensions
below 5 lbs - and this is without any counterweights.
My advice to Ken would be to confirm the accuracy of his tensiometer, make sure
he's using the 1/8 cable scale, raise the nosewheel off of the deck when checking
tensions, and try somewhere between 20 to 25 pounds. This is what has served
us well on several Zenith 601s, and it shouldn't be a risky proposition assuming
he's gone ahead and installed the aileron balance weights.
Having the right tensions still shouldn't result in controls that are hard to move.
Just my humble opinion. YMMV.
Rick Lindstrom
First Light Aviation Grp.
Home of CC#18!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel@nemon.com>
>Sent: Sep 21, 2010 2:56 PM
>To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Cable tensions
>
>
> Ken,
> It would seem that from the flutter analysis that 12 pounds tension
>on the ailerons was determined to be near the edge of stability. As I
>remember, it was just inside the stability window but with little
>margin. Cable tensions that low may have contributed to some of the wing
>failures that caused so many problems. I would not go anywhere near
>there anymore.
> I have always had the tensions set to the current (post update)
>values so I can't say much about before and after but I can say that
>with a bit of lubrication on all contact points, I find the ailerons to
>have very low friction, nothing like a 172 "truck". I will say that
>before I added the lubrication, it was a bit sticky. If you haven't
>greased all points where cables rub on nylon and oiled the pins at the
>cable ends, you might find that doing so will help.
> I do find some friction in the rudder but that is probably from the
>tension of the bungy cord on the nose wheel, not a part of the update.
>The additional friction from the cable tension pulling on the nose
>assembly probably does make it worse. I have some ideas on how to reduce
>this but it is not so bad as to be a major problem in my case.
>
>N708HU
>Jabiru 3300
>59 hours
>
>
>On 09/21/2010 10:10 AM, kenhaslett wrote:
>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "kenhaslett"<kenhaslett@gmail.com>
>>
>> Folks
>>
>> I've just got my Bird back into the air after being grounded for nearly 2 years
awaiting the 'powers that B' coming up with a fix. I'm on a european register.
I set the aileron and rudder cable tensions as per Zenair but am very unhappy
with the result. The aircraft feels heavier than a C182.
>>
>> Before the upgrade my aileron cables were set at 12lbs and the aircraft could
be controlled very easily using my index finger resting in the 'Y' of the control
column. The aircraft had the same feel and response to that of a modern
glider. Now I have to hold the control column in my hand and use a lot of force
to make a turn.
>>
>> Same with the elevator. The trim is not as sensitive, not a bad thing, but once
again requiring a lot more effort in comparison with the previous iteration.
>>
>> I'm worried that the tension is putting significant loadings on the aileron
bushings, bellcrank and supporting ribs.
>>
>> Anyone else found similar problems and have they found a way round it.
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313205#313205
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Mark Hubelbank
>NorthEast Monitoring
>2 Clock Tower Place
>Suite 555
>Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
>mhubel@nemon.com
>978-443-3955
>
>
Message 4
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Ken,
I use 15 to 25 lbs max cable tension and have never had a problem with loss
of tension as result. I also think you do damage to the light pivot points
when you overload them.
Flutter is not the problem and never has been. If you go much tighter, the
cables will perpetually be undoing tension.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kenhaslett
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:10 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Cable tensions
--> <kenhaslett@gmail.com>
Folks
I've just got my Bird back into the air after being grounded for nearly 2
years awaiting the 'powers that B' coming up with a fix. I'm on a european
register. I set the aileron and rudder cable tensions as per Zenair but am
very unhappy with the result. The aircraft feels heavier than a C182.
Before the upgrade my aileron cables were set at 12lbs and the aircraft
could be controlled very easily using my index finger resting in the 'Y' of
the control column. The aircraft had the same feel and response to that of a
modern glider. Now I have to hold the control column in my hand and use a
lot of force to make a turn.
Same with the elevator. The trim is not as sensitive, not a bad thing, but
once again requiring a lot more effort in comparison with the previous
iteration.
I'm worried that the tension is putting significant loadings on the aileron
bushings, bellcrank and supporting ribs.
Anyone else found similar problems and have they found a way round it.
Any help would be appreciated
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313205#313205
Message 5
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601 HD Tri-Gear, 160 hours TT
Interested parties please email me off line at kelly@meiste.com
Or phone 815-694-9922 evenings CDT.
Thank you,
Kelly Meiste
Message 6
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| Subject: | 601XL Corvair combo for sale $10,000 |
Me and my wife are getting a divorce and I am having to sell everything.
I have a 601XL that has been completed to past the quick build stage. It
has dual sticks, strobes, etc. 12 gal tanks installed. I also have a
completed corvair engine with all WW FWF components except the middle cowling.
It has the nose cone though. Mount, exhaust, new carb, intake,
distributor, everything is there. It has a Warp drive prop with it. I am going
to
try and sell it for what I owe on the 2 and that is $10,000. If anyone is
interested, please email me off list. You can call me at 541-420-8037 and
leave a message if you want. I work graveyards and I am going through a
tough time, so I will call when I can. The engine is top notch as well as the
construction on the airframe. I am located in Central Oregon. I have an
18 X 10 trailer that I will through in if someone takes the bird. It is a
good double axle trailer. Let me know.
Larry Husky
Madras, Oregon
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