Today's Message Index:
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0. 12:11 AM - Please Support The Lists... (Matt Dralle)
1. 09:52 AM - Re: Aileron gap seal ()
2. 10:15 AM - Re: Aileron gap seal (Mark Hubelbank)
3. 12:10 PM - Re: Aileron gap seal (Don Honabach)
4. 04:02 PM - Re: Aileron gap seal ()
5. 05:09 PM - Re: Aileron gap seal (Mark Hubelbank)
6. 10:39 PM - Zenith 601xlB has first flight today (Thruster87)
7. 11:14 PM - Re: Zenith 601xlB has first flight today (Peter W Johnson)
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| Subject: | Please Support The Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well!
Please make your Contribution today at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron gap seal |
Aileron seals would be a good idea, but, really, their only purpose
would be to get you past Vne sooner. Granted, it's a slick, clean plane
as is, but putting speed mods on it would only be gilding the lily.
There's an old Chris Heintz quote, allegedly when someone was arguing
some nitpicky construction point: "It's not a space shuttle, it's a
tractor."
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: mhubel<mailto:mhubel@nemon.com>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:46 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
<mhubel@nemon.com<mailto:mhubel@nemon.com>>
Has anyone looked at the gap on the bottom of the aileron to see how
much drag it causes. It would seem that on other aircraft much smaller
gaps have been covered to reduce drag with significant results. Any
reason it won't work on the CH601?
--------
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
41 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875>
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
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m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron gap seal |
Paul,
Interesting that you say it is a "slick plane", I find that I hit a
speed wall at about 120 MPH. Even with the 120 HP Jabiru 3300 on it,
getting much above 120 MPH is a very high throttle process and above 130
MPH is very full throttle.
Granted I don't have wheel pants on it yet but I did expect better.
When I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120 knots (138
MPH) in cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
Are you saying that I should expect it to have less drag than I am
experiencing?
On 11/11/2010 12:39 PM, paulrod36@msn.com wrote:
> Aileron seals would be a good idea, but, really, their only purpose
> would be to get you past Vne sooner. Granted, it's a slick, clean
> plane as is, but putting speed mods on it would only be gilding the
> lily. There's an old Chris Heintz quote, allegedly when someone was
> arguing some nitpicky construction point: "It's not a space shuttle,
> it's a tractor."
> Paul R
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* mhubel <mailto:mhubel@nemon.com>
> *To:* zenith601-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:46 PM
> *Subject:* Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
>
> <mailto:mhubel@nemon.com>>
>
> Has anyone looked at the gap on the bottom of the aileron to see
> how much drag it causes. It would seem that on other aircraft much
> smaller gaps have been covered to reduce drag with significant
> results. Any reason it won't work on the CH601?
>
> --------
> Mark Hubelbank
> N708HU
> CH601XL
> Jabiru 3300
> Rotec TBI 40 carb
> Sensenich ground adj prop.
> 41 hr TAF
> Pictures at photo.hubbles.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous
> ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features
> Chat,
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matnbsp; via
> the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
> _=============
>
>
> *
>
> *
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
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| Subject: | Aileron gap seal |
>> When I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120 knots (138
MPH) in cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
I've actually been trying to wrap my head around the performance numbers, e
tc.
Here are a few things that I think might explain lower performance numbers:
1- At ~7,500 feet (not sure if this is density or indicated, but my gue
ss would be density), 100% power is equivalent to 75% power on engines with
out turbos. As such, WOT at 7,500 feet should be the approximately the same
as testing at sea level at 75% power???
2- All numbers giving by ZAC are given at Sea Level. As such, you need
to convert your Indicated Numbers at test altitude to True (i.e. TAS) to ge
t a better feel for if you are meeting spec.
3- Van's publishes their numbers based on flying at 7,500'. As such, th
ey have a much better reputation of folks getting about the numbers expecte
d. ZAC publishes numbers based on Sea Level (density not indicated) which m
ost people can't fly at in the real world to test.
With that aside, I would definitely look at wheel pants before messing with
gap seals and the like if you are looking to gain some extra speed.
I've cleaned up my 601HDS fairly well although there are still some areas t
hat need improvement and while trying to beat an RV-6A home (I know silly g
ame!), I flew WOT at ~3,500/4,500 feet and was getting about 155 MPH TAS an
d about 140/145 MPH ground speed with a slight head wind. And yes, I lost t
he race, but almost won as I flew through Class B and he flew around.
Thanks,
Don Honabach
601HDS ~150 Hours
Jabiru 3300A.
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hubelbank
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
Paul,
Interesting that you say it is a "slick plane", I find that I hit a spe
ed wall at about 120 MPH. Even with the 120 HP Jabiru 3300 on it, getting m
uch above 120 MPH is a very high throttle process and above 130 MPH is very
full throttle.
Granted I don't have wheel pants on it yet but I did expect better. Whe
n I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120 knots (138 MPH) i
n cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
Are you saying that I should expect it to have less drag than I am expe
riencing?
On 11/11/2010 12:39 PM, paulrod36@msn.com<mailto:paulrod36@msn.com> wrote:
Aileron seals would be a good idea, but, really, their only purpose would b
e to get you past Vne sooner. Granted, it's a slick, clean plane as is, bu
t putting speed mods on it would only be gilding the lily. There's an old C
hris Heintz quote, allegedly when someone was arguing some nitpicky constru
ction point: "It's not a space shuttle, it's a tractor."
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: mhubel<mailto:mhubel@nemon.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:46 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
bel@nemon.com>>
Has anyone looked at the gap on the bottom of the aileron to see how much d
rag it causes. It would seem that on other aircraft much smaller gaps have
been covered to reduce drag with significant results. Any reason it won't w
ork on the CH601?
--------
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
41 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875
<bp; --pleasesupportyourliststhismonth(andgetannual="" link="" fre
e="" title="http://www.aeroelectric.com/" sp; *thebuilder="" s=""
bookstore="">http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ;
-Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Chat, <http://ww
w.matronics.com/contribution> http://www.matnbsp; via the Web title=h
ttp://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://for
ums.matronics.com<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
_=============
</bp; >
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com<mailto:mhubel@nemon.com>
978-443-3955
rsbooks.com>
m>
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron gap seal |
It is a pretty clean plane, and wheel pants would help, but your prop
pitch has a lot to do with it, also. Generally, you get either good
climbouts or good cruise, but rarely both with a fixed-pitch prop.
There's a ton of talent and experience on this net, and I'm sure
somebody will have your engine/prop combo, and has probably dealt with
the problem. I think there's general agreement that wheelpants will give
you some additional knots, and a few tweaks, assuming you have a
ground-adjustable prop, might very well do it for you. Frankly, I'm
envious of anyone whose plane is done. Whenever I get done, I may name
it "Great Pyramid", or "Great Wall", or anything else that took years,
and years, and years, and.... well, you get the idea. Hang in there.
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Hubelbank<mailto:mhubel@nemon.com>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
Paul,
Interesting that you say it is a "slick plane", I find that I hit
a speed wall at about 120 MPH. Even with the 120 HP Jabiru 3300 on it,
getting much above 120 MPH is a very high throttle process and above 130
MPH is very full throttle.
Granted I don't have wheel pants on it yet but I did expect
better. When I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120
knots (138 MPH) in cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
Are you saying that I should expect it to have less drag than I am
experiencing?
On 11/11/2010 12:39 PM, paulrod36@msn.com<mailto:paulrod36@msn.com>
wrote:
Aileron seals would be a good idea, but, really, their only purpose
would be to get you past Vne sooner. Granted, it's a slick, clean plane
as is, but putting speed mods on it would only be gilding the lily.
There's an old Chris Heintz quote, allegedly when someone was arguing
some nitpicky construction point: "It's not a space shuttle, it's a
tractor."
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: mhubel<mailto:mhubel@nemon.com>
To:
zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:46 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
<mhubel@nemon.com<mailto:mhubel@nemon.com>>
Has anyone looked at the gap on the bottom of the aileron to see
how much drag it causes. It would seem that on other aircraft much
smaller gaps have been covered to reduce drag with significant results.
Any reason it won't work on the CH601?
--------
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
41 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875>
http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ;
-Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Chat,
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matnbsp; via the
Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com<http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
_=============
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com<mailto:mhubel@nemon.com>
978-443-3955
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron gap seal |
Don,
I do expect to put the wheel pants on first but I expected that
this gap idea would take a long time to "hatch".
For what it is worth, I have tried working on the prop pitch and
always correct for TAS.
I know that even the book numbers on production aircraft can be
slightly optimistic but I am wondering just how much of a stretch the
numbers published by ZAC are.
On 11/11/2010 3:06 PM, Don Honabach wrote:
>
> >> When I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120 knots
> (138 MPH) in cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
>
> I've actually been trying to wrap my head around the performance
> numbers, etc.
>
> Here are a few things that I think might explain lower performance
> numbers:
>
> 1-At ~7,500 feet (not sure if this is density or indicated, but my
> guess would be density), 100% power is equivalent to 75% power on
> engines without turbos. As such, WOT at 7,500 feet should be the
> approximately the same as testing at sea level at 75% power???
>
> 2-All numbers giving by ZAC are given at Sea Level. As such, you need
> to convert your Indicated Numbers at test altitude to True (i.e. TAS)
> to get a better feel for if you are meeting spec.
>
> 3-Van's publishes their numbers based on flying at 7,500'. As such,
> they have a much better reputation of folks getting about the numbers
> expected. ZAC publishes numbers based on Sea Level (density not
> indicated) which most people can't fly at in the real world to test.
>
> With that aside, I would definitely look at wheel pants before messing
> with gap seals and the like if you are looking to gain some extra speed.
>
> I've cleaned up my 601HDS fairly well although there are still some
> areas that need improvement and while trying to beat an RV-6A home (I
> know silly game!), I flew WOT at ~3,500/4,500 feet and was getting
> about 155 MPH TAS and about 140/145 MPH ground speed with a slight
> head wind. And yes, I lost the race, but almost won as I flew through
> Class B and he flew around.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Don Honabach
>
> 601HDS ~150 Hours
>
> Jabiru 3300A.
>
> *From:*owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
> Hubelbank
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 11, 2010 11:13 AM
> *To:* zenith601-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
>
> Paul,
> Interesting that you say it is a "slick plane", I find that I hit
> a speed wall at about 120 MPH. Even with the 120 HP Jabiru 3300 on it,
> getting much above 120 MPH is a very high throttle process and above
> 130 MPH is very full throttle.
> Granted I don't have wheel pants on it yet but I did expect
> better. When I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120
> knots (138 MPH) in cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
> Are you saying that I should expect it to have less drag than I am
> experiencing?
>
> On 11/11/2010 12:39 PM, paulrod36@msn.com <mailto:paulrod36@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
> Aileron seals would be a good idea, but, really, their only purpose
> would be to get you past Vne sooner. Granted, it's a slick, clean
> plane as is, but putting speed mods on it would only be gilding the
> lily. There's an old Chris Heintz quote, allegedly when someone was
> arguing some nitpicky construction point: "It's not a space shuttle,
> it's a tractor."
>
> Paul R
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:*mhubel <mailto:mhubel@nemon.com>
>
> *To:*zenith601-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
>
> *Sent:*Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:46 PM
>
> *Subject:*Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
>
> <mailto:mhubel@nemon.com>>
>
> Has anyone looked at the gap on the bottom of the aileron to see
> how much drag it causes. It would seem that on other aircraft much
> smaller gaps have been covered to reduce drag with significant
> results. Any reason it won't work on the CH601?
>
> --------
> Mark Hubelbank
> N708HU
> CH601XL
> Jabiru 3300
> Rotec TBI 40 carb
> Sensenich ground adj prop.
> 41 hr TAF
> Pictures at photo.hubbles.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875
>
>
> <bp; --pleasesupportyourliststhismonth(andgetannual=""
> link="" free="" title="http://www.aeroelectric.com/"
> sp; *thebuilder="" s="" bookstore="">http://www.matronics.com/c
> Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle,
> List nbsp; Features Chat,
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matnbsp; via
> the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
> _=============
>
>
> </bp; >
>
> * *
> * *
>
>
> --
> Mark Hubelbank
> NorthEast Monitoring
> 2 Clock Tower Place
> Suite 555
> Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
> mhubel@nemon.com <mailto:mhubel@nemon.com>
> 978-443-3955
> * *
> *<; the Contribution link below to find out more about*
> www.aeroelectriuilder's Bookstore
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com>www.buildersboobuiltHELP
> <http://www.buildersbooks.com>www.homebuilthelp.com
> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
> *
>
> *
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
Message 6
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| Subject: | Zenith 601xlB has first flight today |
Another kit built Zenith 601xlB flew on its' maiden flight today with my CFI
:D at the controls.After 3yrs build time I was most excited to see the aircraft
up up and away and return with a beautifull landing. Cheers Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319086#319086
Message 7
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| Subject: | Zenith 601xlB has first flight today |
Well done Alan,
Nice to see another in Aussie.
Cheers
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thruster87
Sent: Friday, 12 November 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Zenith 601xlB has first flight today
Another kit built Zenith 601xlB flew on its' maiden flight today with my
CFI :D at the controls.After 3yrs build time I was most excited to see the
aircraft up up and away and return with a beautifull landing. Cheers Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319086#319086
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