Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:25 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! (Matt Dralle)
1. 05:54 AM - Re: Undercarriage failures (Pete54)
2. 09:39 AM - Am I missing something? (Lee Steensland)
3. 10:40 AM - Re: Am I missing something? (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 02:03 PM - Re: Am I missing something? (JohnDRead@aol.com)
5. 07:00 PM - Re: Am I missing something? (Ron Lendon)
6. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: Am I missing something? (afterfxllc@aol.com)
Message 0
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! |
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner with just two more days
in this year's Fund Raiser! Later in December I will post a list of everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists this year. Its
my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists.
Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard,
or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage failures |
The composite gear supplied by CZAW comes as suggested above in a variety of weight
capacities from 450kg (1050lbs) to 600kg (1320). There are European approvals
(which require not just design but also testing) at all these capacities.
Whilst the majority of European xls are notionally 450kg there are quite a
number built under the experimental rules (still requiring landing gear approval
unlike the US) with the heavier weights.
Mine is fitted to a 560kg xl but there are no markings that I can see (or recall).
Having said that the factor of safety on the gear is pretty high.
Here in the UK there have been a couple of instances of composite gear cracking,
not on xls ,but as you can see from the Comlet internet site they supply a lot
of manufacturers of LSA type aircraft. So there may be some quality issues,
certainly at any sign of damage the gear leg is likely to be scrap.
In contrast the Zenith alloy gear (supplied by Grove?) appears to be massively
strong - but the penalty is the weight - which is considerable. Which is why
someone I know who is building a US spec xl has had to get all the Us mods approved
in the UK to enable him to use the 600kg mauw - largely to compensate for
the weight for the weight of the gear - at 33lbs it is virtually 3 times the
weight of the composite.
--------
Pete Morris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321569#321569
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Am I missing something? |
Folks,
I would like to consider myself a conscientious builder. I read have
read through the drawings very thoroughly, and followed up with the step
by step assembly guides. I have even go as far as to buy the
homebuilthelp.com videos. The info between the assembly drawings and the
drawings and the "kit" I have seem to be pretty disparate.
Here is an example:
My construction and assembly drawings show a stop plate that goes on the
top of the of the nose gear to keep it from going through the firewall
stiffener. I looked through every packing list I have and it is no where
to be found. Come to find out Zenith lengthened the nose gear tube so
that you no longer need the stop plate. What I want to know is where is
that "upgrade" captured? I looked on the builder update site, and I
can't find it mentioned there; which should be to go-to place for things
like that.
Here is another example:
The assembly guide spends a few pages talking about building a wing jig
to distance the center wing spar with the rear wing spar in the
fuselage. I looked through all the stuff I have and I don't have the
spar stubs or the 6061 sheet to make the wing spar jig. I do have
pre-drilled holes in my fuselage for the center spar, however. So it
occurs to me that I don't actually need that jig.
Mind you, I'm not trying to bash Zenith (well maybe just a little) but I
am just trying to build the best plane I can, and I go around feeling
like I out of the loop on a few things that seem kinda vital to my
success as a builder.
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Am I missing something? |
Hi Lee,
I think you are starting to get the idea of how a builder must relate to the design
sold by Zenith. I know I have an attitude problem over this issue, but I
have completed building my XL. As you progress you may improve your attitude
or it might approach the dark place where my attitude lies.
You should remember that this is not a Revel plastic airplane kit where you fit
the pieces together, paint your model plane and hang it on your ceiling. This
activity requires you to think through each step and eventually build "Your"
plane rather than trying to build "Their" design. You are the manufacturer,
and Zenith merely supplies parts and drawings which you may choose to use in your
building process.
Zenith has no revision control over their designs. That means they make changes
whenever they feel like it and the design one builder receives might be different
from they one he would have received if he ordered it one day earlier or
one day later. To make matters worse, you have no way of knowing who made the
latest design changes. Instead of following the industry practice of having
each engineer put his name and date of any change on each sheet of drawing they
merely have Chris Heintz's name on all pages. You can be sure he didn't do
the latest changes since he retired to France years ago.
On the bright side, if you install the upgrade published with the November FAA
SAIB you can have confidence that the engineering of the finished design meets
the ASTM requirements. This is more than you will ever get on another plans
or kit built plane.
You are free to consult with Zenith support people and email list members as well
as anybody else you can find when you feel you need it. Still, your plane
is your design and workmanship. You are the manufacturer.
Good luck,
Paul
XL installing upgrade
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lee Steensland
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:33 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Am I missing something?
Folks,
I would like to consider myself a conscientious builder. I read have
read through the drawings very thoroughly, and followed up with the step
by step assembly guides. I have even go as far as to buy the
homebuilthelp.com videos. The info between the assembly drawings and the
drawings and the "kit" I have seem to be pretty disparate.
Here is an example:
My construction and assembly drawings show a stop plate that goes on the
top of the of the nose gear to keep it from going through the firewall
stiffener. I looked through every packing list I have and it is no where
to be found. Come to find out Zenith lengthened the nose gear tube so
that you no longer need the stop plate. What I want to know is where is
that "upgrade" captured? I looked on the builder update site, and I
can't find it mentioned there; which should be to go-to place for things
like that.
Here is another example:
The assembly guide spends a few pages talking about building a wing jig
to distance the center wing spar with the rear wing spar in the
fuselage. I looked through all the stuff I have and I don't have the
spar stubs or the 6061 sheet to make the wing spar jig. I do have
pre-drilled holes in my fuselage for the center spar, however. So it
occurs to me that I don't actually need that jig.
Mind you, I'm not trying to bash Zenith (well maybe just a little) but I
am just trying to build the best plane I can, and I go around feeling
like I out of the loop on a few things that seem kinda vital to my
success as a builder.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Am I missing something? |
Hi Lee,
I see you are having some difficulty rationalizing the kit
parts and the drawings. I suggest that a phone call to the factory will
clarify things for you. Both the guys in the shop and the ladies of Zenith are
very helpful. If you have the opportunity to attend one of the rudder
building sessions it is well worth it. The zenith.aero list is very helpful too
and a lot more helpful than some of the folk on other lists. Unfortunately
there are many people on this list who have tried, unsuccessfully, to bring
Zenith to its knees. Buy a copy of Chris Heintz book "Flying on Your Own
Wings" and you will understand his philosophy of design. He is neither a new
comer or a beginner in this area. Do not archive.
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
In a message dated 11/29/2010 10:40:18 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
zenith-list@steensland.net writes:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: Lee Steensland
<zenith-list@steensland.net>
Folks,
I would like to consider myself a conscientious builder. I read have
read through the drawings very thoroughly, and followed up with the step
by step assembly guides. I have even go as far as to buy the
homebuilthelp.com videos. The info between the assembly drawings and the
drawings and the "kit" I have seem to be pretty disparate.
Here is an example:
My construction and assembly drawings show a stop plate that goes on the
top of the of the nose gear to keep it from going through the firewall
stiffener. I looked through every packing list I have and it is no where
to be found. Come to find out Zenith lengthened the nose gear tube so
that you no longer need the stop plate. What I want to know is where is
that "upgrade" captured? I looked on the builder update site, and I
can't find it mentioned there; which should be to go-to place for things
like that.
Here is another example:
The assembly guide spends a few pages talking about building a wing jig
to distance the center wing spar with the rear wing spar in the
fuselage. I looked through all the stuff I have and I don't have the
spar stubs or the 6061 sheet to make the wing spar jig. I do have
pre-drilled holes in my fuselage for the center spar, however. So it
occurs to me that I don't actually need that jig.
Mind you, I'm not trying to bash Zenith (well maybe just a little) but I
am just trying to build the best plane I can, and I go around feeling
like I out of the loop on a few things that seem kinda vital to my
success as a builder.
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Am I missing something? |
Zenith does publish updates and they are located in the builders area of the web
site under (Model name) DRAWINGS Updates.
There are a total of ten files listed there and none of them are cumulative. Each
file represents the changes since the last change. So you will have to open
each file and search for 6-G-1 to see what has evolved over time.
I just did that but didn't notice anything about the length of the gear changing
but I did notice the note about not needing the 4130 PLATE with the nuts on
the top of the nose gear leg.
The overall length on my print is 795mm. What does your 6-g-1-1 measure?
--------
Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321669#321669
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Am I missing something? |
There is a very easy way to tell if your part has been revised or changed s
ince the drawings you have that might be outdated.
If you look at any part in the drawings they have a part # and that part #
should match the tag or sticker on the part you have a question about. If t
he part # has a revision it will be something like 6-G-1-1/2 That translate
d means 6 = 601, G = Gear, 1 = Page #, 1 = drawing # on page, and m
ost important is the next # which means 2 revision's.
Now if you have say 6-G-1-1/3 that would mean the part has been revised 3 t
imes but the plans might not have caught up yet but your tag will indicate
a revision. If you have any questions about a revision Shirley at Zenith ca
n most times let you know what was changed.
Hope this helped
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Lendon <ron.lendon@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 29, 2010 10:00 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Am I missing something?
Zenith does publish updates and they are located in the builders area of th
e web
ite under (Model name) DRAWINGS Updates.
There are a total of ten files listed there and none of them are cumulative
.
ach file represents the changes since the last change. So you will have to
pen each file and search for 6-G-1 to see what has evolved over time.
I just did that but didn't notice anything about the length of the gear cha
nging
ut I did notice the note about not needing the 4130 PLATE with the nuts on
the
op of the nose gear leg.
The overall length on my print is 795mm. What does your 6-g-1-1 measure?
--------
on Lendon, Detroit, MI
W Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
odiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
ttp://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
orvair Engine Prints:
ttp://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321669#321669
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-=
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The Zenith601-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|