---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/29/10: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:25 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! (Matt Dralle) 1. 05:54 AM - Re: Undercarriage failures (Pete54) 2. 09:39 AM - Am I missing something? (Lee Steensland) 3. 10:40 AM - Re: Am I missing something? (Paul Mulwitz) 4. 02:03 PM - Re: Am I missing something? (JohnDRead@aol.com) 5. 07:00 PM - Re: Am I missing something? (Ron Lendon) 6. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: Am I missing something? (afterfxllc@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:09 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith601-List: Make Sure You're Listed! Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner with just two more days in this year's Fund Raiser! Later in December I will post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists this year. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:46 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Undercarriage failures From: "Pete54" The composite gear supplied by CZAW comes as suggested above in a variety of weight capacities from 450kg (1050lbs) to 600kg (1320). There are European approvals (which require not just design but also testing) at all these capacities. Whilst the majority of European xls are notionally 450kg there are quite a number built under the experimental rules (still requiring landing gear approval unlike the US) with the heavier weights. Mine is fitted to a 560kg xl but there are no markings that I can see (or recall). Having said that the factor of safety on the gear is pretty high. Here in the UK there have been a couple of instances of composite gear cracking, not on xls ,but as you can see from the Comlet internet site they supply a lot of manufacturers of LSA type aircraft. So there may be some quality issues, certainly at any sign of damage the gear leg is likely to be scrap. In contrast the Zenith alloy gear (supplied by Grove?) appears to be massively strong - but the penalty is the weight - which is considerable. Which is why someone I know who is building a US spec xl has had to get all the Us mods approved in the UK to enable him to use the 600kg mauw - largely to compensate for the weight for the weight of the gear - at 33lbs it is virtually 3 times the weight of the composite. -------- Pete Morris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321569#321569 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:55 AM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Am I missing something? From: Lee Steensland Folks, I would like to consider myself a conscientious builder. I read have read through the drawings very thoroughly, and followed up with the step by step assembly guides. I have even go as far as to buy the homebuilthelp.com videos. The info between the assembly drawings and the drawings and the "kit" I have seem to be pretty disparate. Here is an example: My construction and assembly drawings show a stop plate that goes on the top of the of the nose gear to keep it from going through the firewall stiffener. I looked through every packing list I have and it is no where to be found. Come to find out Zenith lengthened the nose gear tube so that you no longer need the stop plate. What I want to know is where is that "upgrade" captured? I looked on the builder update site, and I can't find it mentioned there; which should be to go-to place for things like that. Here is another example: The assembly guide spends a few pages talking about building a wing jig to distance the center wing spar with the rear wing spar in the fuselage. I looked through all the stuff I have and I don't have the spar stubs or the 6061 sheet to make the wing spar jig. I do have pre-drilled holes in my fuselage for the center spar, however. So it occurs to me that I don't actually need that jig. Mind you, I'm not trying to bash Zenith (well maybe just a little) but I am just trying to build the best plane I can, and I go around feeling like I out of the loop on a few things that seem kinda vital to my success as a builder. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:17 AM PST US From: "Paul Mulwitz" Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Am I missing something? Hi Lee, I think you are starting to get the idea of how a builder must relate to the design sold by Zenith. I know I have an attitude problem over this issue, but I have completed building my XL. As you progress you may improve your attitude or it might approach the dark place where my attitude lies. You should remember that this is not a Revel plastic airplane kit where you fit the pieces together, paint your model plane and hang it on your ceiling. This activity requires you to think through each step and eventually build "Your" plane rather than trying to build "Their" design. You are the manufacturer, and Zenith merely supplies parts and drawings which you may choose to use in your building process. Zenith has no revision control over their designs. That means they make changes whenever they feel like it and the design one builder receives might be different from they one he would have received if he ordered it one day earlier or one day later. To make matters worse, you have no way of knowing who made the latest design changes. Instead of following the industry practice of having each engineer put his name and date of any change on each sheet of drawing they merely have Chris Heintz's name on all pages. You can be sure he didn't do the latest changes since he retired to France years ago. On the bright side, if you install the upgrade published with the November FAA SAIB you can have confidence that the engineering of the finished design meets the ASTM requirements. This is more than you will ever get on another plans or kit built plane. You are free to consult with Zenith support people and email list members as well as anybody else you can find when you feel you need it. Still, your plane is your design and workmanship. You are the manufacturer. Good luck, Paul XL installing upgrade -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lee Steensland Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:33 AM Subject: Zenith601-List: Am I missing something? Folks, I would like to consider myself a conscientious builder. I read have read through the drawings very thoroughly, and followed up with the step by step assembly guides. I have even go as far as to buy the homebuilthelp.com videos. The info between the assembly drawings and the drawings and the "kit" I have seem to be pretty disparate. Here is an example: My construction and assembly drawings show a stop plate that goes on the top of the of the nose gear to keep it from going through the firewall stiffener. I looked through every packing list I have and it is no where to be found. Come to find out Zenith lengthened the nose gear tube so that you no longer need the stop plate. What I want to know is where is that "upgrade" captured? I looked on the builder update site, and I can't find it mentioned there; which should be to go-to place for things like that. Here is another example: The assembly guide spends a few pages talking about building a wing jig to distance the center wing spar with the rear wing spar in the fuselage. I looked through all the stuff I have and I don't have the spar stubs or the 6061 sheet to make the wing spar jig. I do have pre-drilled holes in my fuselage for the center spar, however. So it occurs to me that I don't actually need that jig. Mind you, I'm not trying to bash Zenith (well maybe just a little) but I am just trying to build the best plane I can, and I go around feeling like I out of the loop on a few things that seem kinda vital to my success as a builder. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:08 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Am I missing something? Hi Lee, I see you are having some difficulty rationalizing the kit parts and the drawings. I suggest that a phone call to the factory will clarify things for you. Both the guys in the shop and the ladies of Zenith are very helpful. If you have the opportunity to attend one of the rudder building sessions it is well worth it. The zenith.aero list is very helpful too and a lot more helpful than some of the folk on other lists. Unfortunately there are many people on this list who have tried, unsuccessfully, to bring Zenith to its knees. Buy a copy of Chris Heintz book "Flying on Your Own Wings" and you will understand his philosophy of design. He is neither a new comer or a beginner in this area. Do not archive. Regards, John CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 Cell: 719-494-4567 Home: 303-648-3261 In a message dated 11/29/2010 10:40:18 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, zenith-list@steensland.net writes: --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Lee Steensland Folks, I would like to consider myself a conscientious builder. I read have read through the drawings very thoroughly, and followed up with the step by step assembly guides. I have even go as far as to buy the homebuilthelp.com videos. The info between the assembly drawings and the drawings and the "kit" I have seem to be pretty disparate. Here is an example: My construction and assembly drawings show a stop plate that goes on the top of the of the nose gear to keep it from going through the firewall stiffener. I looked through every packing list I have and it is no where to be found. Come to find out Zenith lengthened the nose gear tube so that you no longer need the stop plate. What I want to know is where is that "upgrade" captured? I looked on the builder update site, and I can't find it mentioned there; which should be to go-to place for things like that. Here is another example: The assembly guide spends a few pages talking about building a wing jig to distance the center wing spar with the rear wing spar in the fuselage. I looked through all the stuff I have and I don't have the spar stubs or the 6061 sheet to make the wing spar jig. I do have pre-drilled holes in my fuselage for the center spar, however. So it occurs to me that I don't actually need that jig. Mind you, I'm not trying to bash Zenith (well maybe just a little) but I am just trying to build the best plane I can, and I go around feeling like I out of the loop on a few things that seem kinda vital to my success as a builder. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:35 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Am I missing something? From: "Ron Lendon" Zenith does publish updates and they are located in the builders area of the web site under (Model name) DRAWINGS Updates. There are a total of ten files listed there and none of them are cumulative. Each file represents the changes since the last change. So you will have to open each file and search for 6-G-1 to see what has evolved over time. I just did that but didn't notice anything about the length of the gear changing but I did notice the note about not needing the 4130 PLATE with the nuts on the top of the nose gear leg. The overall length on my print is 795mm. What does your 6-g-1-1 measure? -------- Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Corvair Engine Prints: http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321669#321669 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Am I missing something? From: afterfxllc@aol.com There is a very easy way to tell if your part has been revised or changed s ince the drawings you have that might be outdated. If you look at any part in the drawings they have a part # and that part # should match the tag or sticker on the part you have a question about. If t he part # has a revision it will be something like 6-G-1-1/2 That translate d means 6 = 601, G = Gear, 1 = Page #, 1 = drawing # on page, and m ost important is the next # which means 2 revision's. Now if you have say 6-G-1-1/3 that would mean the part has been revised 3 t imes but the plans might not have caught up yet but your tag will indicate a revision. If you have any questions about a revision Shirley at Zenith ca n most times let you know what was changed. Hope this helped Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Ron Lendon Sent: Mon, Nov 29, 2010 10:00 pm Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Am I missing something? Zenith does publish updates and they are located in the builders area of th e web ite under (Model name) DRAWINGS Updates. There are a total of ten files listed there and none of them are cumulative . ach file represents the changes since the last change. So you will have to pen each file and search for 6-G-1 to see what has evolved over time. I just did that but didn't notice anything about the length of the gear cha nging ut I did notice the note about not needing the 4130 PLATE with the nuts on the op of the nose gear leg. The overall length on my print is 795mm. What does your 6-g-1-1 measure? -------- on Lendon, Detroit, MI W Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing odiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) ttp://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon orvair Engine Prints: ttp://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321669#321669 - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== -= - The Zenith601-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.