---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/06/10: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:53 AM - Seals (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 2. 11:36 AM - Re: Seals (Craig Payne) 3. 11:55 AM - Chat Tonight (George Race) 4. 12:32 PM - Re: Seals (Mark Hubelbank) 5. 12:34 PM - Re: Seals (Bill Steer) 6. 01:02 PM - Re: Seals (Bill Steer) 7. 01:07 PM - Re: Seals (Paul Mulwitz) 8. 01:50 PM - Re: Seals (Bryan Martin) 9. 02:04 PM - Re: Seals (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:22 AM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: Zenith601-List: Seals List On a recent breakfast run in cold weather ( 40 deg. OAT ) I closed both air vents. Immediately I got a strong odor of exhaust and burned fuel. The only way I believe it could get in the cockpit area is thru the seals around the nose wheel steering rods. Everything else is caulked or sealed tight. Does anyone have an easy way to seal the rods better than the factory slide. I seem to remember someone had a sock or motorcycle / ATV seal that could be adapted to the rods. Anyone have part numbers / photos / or supplier. Too cold to fly with the vents open. bobby Jacksonville, Fl. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:56 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Seals Here is an old message from Ben Haas on the snowmobile boots. They are kind of big and clunky (I have some saved photos I can send you direct): "This is a two part deal with the bellows to follow the rod travel and the plates to fasten the boots to the firewall. These are from a 2001 Mountain Max snowmobile so you guys down south will get some REAL strange looks from the Yamaha parts counter guy. The boot part number is Yam: 8CR-2198F-00-00 and is labeled a "cover". The plane # is Yam: 8CR2195E-00-00. Because of the existing rivets in the firewall I was only able to attach the plate with three A-5 rivets and a screw on the bottom. You will have to carve out the top flange of the plate to miss two rivets. For those that have not built their firewalls yet you can incorporate the boots using ZAC called for rivet locations. Also the small end of the boot is 3/4" id and our steering rods are 3/8" od. I had some thick wall round aluminum stock laying around and I made some bushings out of that. You guys can use anything to fill up that space. ie/ take some fuel line and slide it over the rods etc etc. Happy building Ben Haas. N801BH." Craig again - you can make your own boots out of fiberglass cloth and silicone adhesive. Since the rods don't move that far forward fore and aft you don't need the full bellows on the snowmobile boots. There was an article in one of the mags sometime in the past year. I used "Silpat" silicone cookie sheet liners. But the silicone is pretty soft and I suspect they will tear once I start flying. I have seen others made from the fireproof cloth user in racing suits (Nomex) but I think it breaths so you have to coat it. -- Craig From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: Zenith601-List: Seals List On a recent breakfast run in cold weather ( 40 deg. OAT ) I closed both air vents. Immediately I got a strong odor of exhaust and burned fuel. The only way I believe it could get in the cockpit area is thru the seals around the nose wheel steering rods. Everything else is caulked or sealed tight. Does anyone have an easy way to seal the rods better than the factory slide. I seem to remember someone had a sock or motorcycle / ATV seal that could be adapted to the rods. Anyone have part numbers / photos / or supplier. Too cold to fly with the vents open. bobby Jacksonville, Fl. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:55:13 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith601-List: Chat Tonight Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT http://www.mykitairplane.com Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page. George ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:41 PM PST US From: Mark Hubelbank Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Seals Bobby, Even if you do get it that well sealed up, I would be concerned that there is that much exhaust in the area. This could be an indication that there is a leak in the exhaust system or the end of the pipe is too short and allows some exhaust to be blown back. On 12/06/2010 1:43 PM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote: > List > On a recent breakfast run in cold weather ( 40 deg. OAT ) I closed > both air vents. Immediately I got a strong odor of exhaust and burned > fuel. The only way I believe it could get in the cockpit area is thru > the seals around the nose wheel steering rods. Everything else is > caulked or sealed tight. Does anyone have an easy way to seal the rods > better than the factory slide. I seem to remember someone had a sock > or motorcycle / ATV seal that could be adapted to the rods. Anyone > have part numbers / photos / or supplier. > Too cold to fly with the vents open. > > > bobby > Jacksonville, Fl. > > Do Not Archive > * > > * -- Mark Hubelbank NorthEast Monitoring 2 Clock Tower Place Suite 555 Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA mhubel@nemon.com 978-443-3955 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:47 PM PST US From: Bill Steer Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Seals I have a 601HD and sealed my steering rods with a Jeep shifter boot. Works great! I got the idea and directions for doing it from another fellow on this list. Let me try to dig that up. If I find it, I'll respond again. Bill On 12/6/2010 1:43 PM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote: > List > On a recent breakfast run in cold weather ( 40 deg. OAT ) I closed > both air vents. Immediately I got a strong odor of exhaust and burned > fuel. The only way I believe it could get in the cockpit area is thru > the seals around the nose wheel steering rods. Everything else is > caulked or sealed tight. Does anyone have an easy way to seal the rods > better than the factory slide. I seem to remember someone had a sock > or motorcycle / ATV seal that could be adapted to the rods. Anyone > have part numbers / photos / or supplier. > Too cold to fly with the vents open. > > > bobby > Jacksonville, Fl. > > Do Not Archive > * > > * ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:08 PM PST US From: Bill Steer Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Seals Found it. Here's his message: **I have a solution for the steering rod sealing which uses a Jeep 4wd dual rubber boot purchased off of Ebay for about $25. It seals quite well and matches up nicely with the slots and steering rod travel. Email me direct if you would like pictures and some fabrication details. Will also try to post on Matronics enclosure site. Chuck Long, P.E. Zodie Rocket HDS N601LE, 150 hr TT His email address is charles.long@allisontransmission.com Bill ** On 12/6/2010 1:43 PM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote: > List > On a recent breakfast run in cold weather ( 40 deg. OAT ) I closed > both air vents. Immediately I got a strong odor of exhaust and burned > fuel. The only way I believe it could get in the cockpit area is thru > the seals around the nose wheel steering rods. Everything else is > caulked or sealed tight. Does anyone have an easy way to seal the rods > better than the factory slide. I seem to remember someone had a sock > or motorcycle / ATV seal that could be adapted to the rods. Anyone > have part numbers / photos / or supplier. > Too cold to fly with the vents open. > > > bobby > Jacksonville, Fl. > > Do Not Archive > * > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:31 PM PST US From: "Paul Mulwitz" Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Seals I was having similar thoughts - there just shouldn't be so much exhaust in the engine compartment. If you can do it, an extension to the exhaust pipe might help. I saw an article in the EAA magazine (perhaps a very old issue) about a home-made muffler that actually ran along the bottom of the fuselage and discharged the exhaust well aft of the passenger compartment. Another thought - the exhaust might not be coming from the rudder control rods at all. Perhaps there is a vacuum created in the rear of the canopy and the exhaust is coming in from the slip stream around the fuselage. If you have cabin heat the air flow from it will prevent any vacuum from forming in the cabin. If you don't have cabin heat perhaps you should consider adding it. Paul XL - still doing upgrade installation. From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hubelbank Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Seals Bobby, Even if you do get it that well sealed up, I would be concerned that there is that much exhaust in the area. This could be an indication that there is a leak in the exhaust system or the end of the pipe is too short and allows some exhaust to be blown back. On 12/06/2010 1:43 PM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote: List On a recent breakfast run in cold weather ( 40 deg. OAT ) I closed both air vents. Immediately I got a strong odor of exhaust and burned fuel. The only way I believe it could get in the cockpit area is thru the seals around the nose wheel steering rods. Everything else is caulked or sealed tight. Does anyone have an easy way to seal the rods better than the factory slide. I seem to remember someone had a sock or motorcycle / ATV seal that could be adapted to the rods. Anyone have part numbers / photos / or supplier. Too cold to fly with the vents open. bobby Jacksonville, Fl. Do Not Archive -- Mark Hubelbank NorthEast Monitoring 2 Clock Tower Place Suite 555 Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA mhubel@nemon.com 978-443-3955 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:50:34 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Seals This is very possible, I have noticed that air comes into my cabin from the tail cone and flows out under the gap between the canopy rails and frame. It would cause the boot around the control stick to balloon up before I sealed the gap under the canopy rails. If your exhaust pipes are very short, the exhaust may flow back along the fuselage and be pulled in through the openings under the horizontal stabilizer and flow back forward through the rudder cable tunnel into the cabin. On Dec 6, 2010, at 4:03 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > Another thought - the exhaust might not be coming from the rudder control rods at all. Perhaps there is a vacuum created in the rear of the canopy and the exhaust is coming in from the slip stream around the fuselage. > > Paul > XL - still doing upgrade installation. > > >> On 12/06/2010 1:43 PM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote: >> List >> On a recent breakfast run in cold weather ( 40 deg. OAT ) I closed both air vents. Immediately I got a strong odor of exhaust and burned fuel. The only way I believe it could get in the cockpit area is thru the seals around the nose wheel steering rods. Everything else is caulked or sealed tight. Does anyone have an easy way to seal the rods better than the factory slide. I seem to remember someone had a sock or motorcycle / ATV seal that could be adapted to the rods. Anyone have part numbers / photos / or supplier. >> Too cold to fly with the vents open. >> >> >> bobby >> Jacksonville, Fl. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:16 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Seals I vaguely recall someone going through the exercise of lowering the CO level in the cockpit of his 601. I believe he found the CO was entering through the bottom access cover and moving forward. Another builder (Gary Ray?) installed a muffin fan on the rear wall of his luggage deck and found that the natural flow would make it spin backwards. All this indicates the cockpit being an area of low pressure. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 1:48 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Seals This is very possible, I have noticed that air comes into my cabin from the tail cone and flows out under the gap between the canopy rails and frame. It would cause the boot around the control stick to balloon up before I sealed the gap under the canopy rails. If your exhaust pipes are very short, the exhaust may flow back along the fuselage and be pulled in through the openings under the horizontal stabilizer and flow back forward through the rudder cable tunnel into the cabin. On Dec 6, 2010, at 4:03 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > Another thought - the exhaust might not be coming from the rudder control rods at all. Perhaps there is a vacuum created in the rear of the canopy and the exhaust is coming in from the slip stream around the fuselage. > > Paul > XL - still doing upgrade installation. > > >> On 12/06/2010 1:43 PM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote: >> List >> On a recent breakfast run in cold weather ( 40 deg. OAT ) I closed both air vents. Immediately I got a strong odor of exhaust and burned fuel. The only way I believe it could get in the cockpit area is thru the seals around the nose wheel steering rods. Everything else is caulked or sealed tight. Does anyone have an easy way to seal the rods better than the factory slide. I seem to remember someone had a sock or motorcycle / ATV seal that could be adapted to the rods. Anyone have part numbers / photos / or supplier. >> Too cold to fly with the vents open. >> >> >> bobby >> Jacksonville, Fl. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive. do not archive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.