---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/20/10: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:46 AM - Chat Tonight (George Race) 2. 01:40 PM - Re: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers (Jeff) 3. 02:31 PM - Fw: Hartwell latch (Carlos Sa) 4. 06:00 PM - Re: Fw: Hartwell latch (Jeff) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:07 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith601-List: Chat Tonight Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT http://www.mykitairplane.com Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page. George ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:03 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers Try Wicks. $12 each. Jeff D _____ From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 12:02 AM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers They are cool indeed, but obscenely expensive. AS&S has them in their catalog for $121 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/latches.html The trick is to find "new surplus", which I did manage to do. Airparts Inc has them for $20, but they are for the wrong material thickness. You need to learn the anatomy of these gadgets: they must fit the material you are working with; also the version that has a travel limited to 90 deg. is better, or it will hit the material around it and make a dent. http://www.airpartsinc.com/products/flush-latch-hartwell.htm There is also a version with a round button, which is much easier to install, but I never found them for a reasonable price. This site has them for $48. Five or 7 per door... do the math... do not archive https://www.circletracksupply.com/product.php?productid 26 I believe I posted some information on the list a while back. If you can't find it, send me a note and I'll gather the info for you (I'm about to crash, it's almost midnight here in Montreal). Cheers Carlos On 19 December 2010 22:38, Don Honabach wrote: Those are cool! Do you have a source for the latches? Don ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:15 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith601-List: Fwd: Hartwell latch Below is a summary of what I learned during the intalation of the Hartwell latches. It's a note I sent to some builders that were interested in this set up. Carlos ________________ To operate the latches, you will need to apply a force perpendicular to the skin, so the skin and the area around it must be able to take the stress. My locker cover is 0.020" - I should have used 0.025", but I think it will survive. If not, it should be a matter of hours to make another one with thicker material. New latches are a bit stiff, so I operated each one a number of times until they became easier to work with - before I ever installed them in their "final resting place". They open with a jolt, so they can damage the skin when they reach fully open position. The damage is visible on the picture of the hole patters. One of them shows some deformation (3rd from left, on top). So, to fix the problem, I made a "cage", or travel stop, to make sure the latch stops before denting the skin. This is the purpose of those funny "match boxes" you see. I learned *after* purchasing these latches that *there is an model with travel limited to 90 degrees* ... Should you decide to use Hartwell latches, look for this particular model. See page 2 of the AS&S specs at http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/hartwell.pdf I think this would be an H5000-3. I used H5000-2-025-051, where 025 is the door thickness, and 051 is door plus frame thickness (the "limited travel" version would be H5000-3-025-051). In my case they are both 0.020 and it fits well. I got them from aviation-instrument.com , a gentleman named Chuck Gonzales - mailto: cgonzalez@aviation-instrument.com Great people to work with. They were "surplus new", $10.00 each - that was a year ago, not sure if they have any left... Hartwell wanted $100 each - they would manufacture them, as they have none in stock ...!!! Wicks sells them at $10 each. I asked the complete part number (not shown on-line), and they are for thicker material - you might want to inquire and/or order a sample to see if it fits. http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=5075~subid=1456/index.html There is also the "helicopter" variation, which would have been easier to install (round holes), but the only source I found wanted $50/each. http://www.crracing.com/custom_built/hartwell_styles.shtml I think it deserves a little more searching, as it would save the time and effort of making irregular shaped holes. If you decide against Hartwell latches, I would suggest camlock fasteners - more expensive than dzus, but, in my opinion, a better engineered solution: http://www.milspecproducts.com/ About the pictures: I made hole patterns, starting with cardboard and then making them a bit better (on 0.016"), until I was happy. I used the one to the right to trace the hole shape on the door, then drilled small holes all around and shaped with a file. The travel stop / cage was made of thin stock (0.020"?), and then a trapezoidal piece (0.032") riveted inside (see sample next to the hole templates). One more consideration (?): a Hartwell latch installation will be more permeable to air and water - there are more ways for the water to pass through, if compared to a dzu or camlock. But, for a "high performance" craft as the Zodie, I think this is no issue... I posted a video on youtube, and when I went there to see it, I found one more on hartwell latches. Here are the URLs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGtyj-jPIb0 This is my video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evD30x62UwU There are several RV builder sites where they show how they used this latch for the oil door. I remember Don Checkoway is one of them. Links: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_search_results.php/search=aGFydHdlbGw http://www.milspecproducts.com/ http://www.milspecproducts.com/26002700c-lock.htm http://www.skybolt.com/ http://www.crracing.com/custom_built/hartwell_styles.shtml http://www.milspecproducts.com/tool.htm#mst98 http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699 http://www.eberhard.com/ProductCateloge.aspx?CategoryID=12 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:25 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Fwd: Hartwell latch Thanks for the great information Carlos! Jeff D do not archive _____ From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 5:27 PM Subject: Zenith601-List: Fwd: Hartwell latch Below is a summary of what I learned during the intalation of the Hartwell latches. It's a note I sent to some builders that were interested in this set up. Carlos ________________ To operate the latches, you will need to apply a force perpendicular to the skin, so the skin and the area around it must be able to take the stress. My locker cover is 0.020" - I should have used 0.025", but I think it will survive. If not, it should be a matter of hours to make another one with thicker material. New latches are a bit stiff, so I operated each one a number of times until they became easier to work with - before I ever installed them in their "final resting place". They open with a jolt, so they can damage the skin when they reach fully open position. The damage is visible on the picture of the hole patters. One of them shows some deformation (3rd from left, on top). So, to fix the problem, I made a "cage", or travel stop, to make sure the latch stops before denting the skin. This is the purpose of those funny "match boxes" you see. I learned *after* purchasing these latches that there is an model with travel limited to 90 degrees ... Should you decide to use Hartwell latches, look for this particular model. See page 2 of the AS&S specs at http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/hartwell.pdf I think this would be an H5000-3. I used H5000-2-025-051, where 025 is the door thickness, and 051 is door plus frame thickness (the "limited travel" version would be H5000-3-025-051). In my case they are both 0.020 and it fits well. I got them from aviation-instrument.com , a gentleman named Chuck Gonzales - mailto: cgonzalez@aviation-instrument.com Great people to work with. They were "surplus new", $10.00 each - that was a year ago, not sure if they have any left... Hartwell wanted $100 each - they would manufacture them, as they have none in stock ...!!! Wicks sells them at $10 each. I asked the complete part number (not shown on-line), and they are for thicker material - you might want to inquire and/or order a sample to see if it fits. http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=5075~subid=1456/ index.html There is also the "helicopter" variation, which would have been easier to install (round holes), but the only source I found wanted $50/each. http://www.crracing.com/custom_built/hartwell_styles.shtml I think it deserves a little more searching, as it would save the time and effort of making irregular shaped holes. If you decide against Hartwell latches, I would suggest camlock fasteners - more expensive than dzus, but, in my opinion, a better engineered solution: http://www.milspecproducts.com/ About the pictures: I made hole patterns, starting with cardboard and then making them a bit better (on 0.016"), until I was happy. I used the one to the right to trace the hole shape on the door, then drilled small holes all around and shaped with a file. The travel stop / cage was made of thin stock (0.020"?), and then a trapezoidal piece (0.032") riveted inside (see sample next to the hole templates). One more consideration (?): a Hartwell latch installation will be more permeable to air and water - there are more ways for the water to pass through, if compared to a dzu or camlock. But, for a "high performance" craft as the Zodie, I think this is no issue... I posted a video on youtube, and when I went there to see it, I found one more on hartwell latches. Here are the URLs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGtyj-jPIb0 This is my video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evD30x62UwU There are several RV builder sites where they show how they used this latch for the oil door. I remember Don Checkoway is one of them. Links: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_search_results.php/search=aGFyd HdlbGw http://www.milspecproducts.com/ http://www.milspecproducts.com/26002700c-lock.htm http://www.skybolt.com/ http://www.crracing.com/custom_built/hartwell_styles.shtml http://www.milspecproducts.com/tool.htm#mst98 http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699 http://www.eberhard.com/ProductCateloge.aspx?CategoryID=12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.