Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:41 AM - Chat Room (George Race)
2. 04:21 PM - A couple of questions ()
3. 04:24 PM - Alternators for Corvairs ()
4. 04:31 PM - Re: A couple of questions (Craig Payne)
5. 05:25 PM - Re: A couple of questions (Randy L. Thwing)
6. 05:33 PM - Re: A couple of questions (Jay Bannister)
7. 06:21 PM - Re: A couple of questions ()
Message 1
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Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT
http://www.mykitairplane.com <blocked::http://www.mykitairplane.com/>
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
Message 2
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| Subject: | A couple of questions |
First question: Given the same number of longerons and bulkheads,
would a triangular fuselage be as strong, or stronger than a square or
round one? Aeronautical engineers, and those who already found out
empirically, and anybody with an opinion, feel free to jump in.
Second question....Several years ago, someone figured out the weights of
4 by 12 (I think) sheets of .016, .025, and .032 aluminum. Does anybody
remember them?
Paul R
Message 3
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| Subject: | Alternators for Corvairs |
Has anybody used a different alternator than the John Deere? The current
price (no pun intended) of $335 seems a bit high for 20 amps, and I'd
like to explore other possibilities before diving in.......What other
options have been tried?
Thanks, Paul R
Message 4
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| Subject: | A couple of questions |
For your second question, Spruce has a good reference table:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/generalaluminuminfo2small.jpg
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
paulrod36@msn.com
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 4:17 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: A couple of questions
First question: Given the same number of longerons and bulkheads, would a
triangular fuselage be as strong, or stronger than a square or round one?
Aeronautical engineers, and those who already found out empirically, and
anybody with an opinion, feel free to jump in.
Second question....Several years ago, someone figured out the weights of 4
by 12 (I think) sheets of .016, .025, and .032 aluminum. Does anybody
remember them?
Paul R
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions |
Paul:
You never need a chart if you remember (or write down) that in most
books Aluminum is listed (generally) as weighing .10/ lbs per cubic
inch. Now I recall 6061-T6 is a bit lighter at .098/lbs per cubic inch.
So you just have to multiply any sheet size: length times width times
thickness equals cubic inches of material which is then multiplied by
.098 to give you the sheet weight.
Example: 4' x 12' x .016" sheet. 48" x 144" x .016" = 110.592 cubic
inches of material x .098 (weight per cubic inch) = 10.838 lbs. per
sheet.
Other (general) handy weights to know are:
Steel or stainless steel = .283/lbs per cubic inch
Brass = .307/lbs per cubic inch
lead = .409/lbs per cubic inch
How to remember these numbers? Note all are Chevy engine cubic inch
sizes! You just have to remember the AL figure.
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
Second question....Several years ago, someone figured out the weights
of 4 by 12 (I think) sheets of .016, .025, and .032 aluminum. Does
anybody remember them?
Paul R
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions |
Paul,
The answer to your question is not a simple one. In the first place, they
would not all have the same number of longerons. A triangular one could on
ly have three. A square one would have four and a round one would have fou
r or more. The size and configuration of the bulkheads would also be very
different, even if the number of them were equal. You would also have to t
ake into account diagonal bracing and skin thickness. If you are asking ab
out the frame alone, each shape could be designed to have the same strength
as the others. A fuselage made of only two longerons can be made to work
and to be as strong as any of the other shapes. And the term "strength" in
this case is a rather nebulous one. In the design of an airplane fuselage
, the practicality of the shape is more important than the theoretical stre
ngth of the shape. How do you fit people into the shape? How do you att
ach the wings and empennage? How do you secure the engine? What are the ae
rodynamic characteristics of the fuselage? And so on and so forth.
I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but your question can't be answ
ered simply. If you really want a triangular shaped fuselage, you have thou
ght it through and can arrange to have a thorough structural analysis done,
I'd say go for it.
Jay
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions |
Many thanks to Craig, Randy and Jay for the quick turnaround on my
questions. Since I'm built pretty much like anybody else, the cockpit
would "violate" the pyramidal esthetics, but it was more of a mental
exercise in design than something to make another project out of. Maybe
someday, just for fun, though.
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Bannister<mailto:jaybannist@cs.com>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: A couple of questions
Paul,
The answer to your question is not a simple one. In the first place,
they would not all have the same number of longerons. A triangular one
could only have three. A square one would have four and a round one
would have four or more. The size and configuration of the bulkheads
would also be very different, even if the number of them were equal.
You would also have to take into account diagonal bracing and skin
thickness. If you are asking about the frame alone, each shape could be
designed to have the same strength as the others. A fuselage made of
only two longerons can be made to work and to be as strong as any of the
other shapes. And the term "strength" in this case is a rather nebulous
one. In the design of an airplane fuselage, the practicality of the
shape is more important than the theoretical strength of the shape.
How do you fit people into the shape? How do you attach the wings and
empennage? How do you secure the engine? What are the aerodynamic
characteristics of the fuselage? And so on and so forth.
I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but your question can't be
answered simply. If you really want a triangular shaped fuselage, you
have thought it through and can arrange to have a thorough structural
analysis done, I'd say go for it.
Jay
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