Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:26 PM - Nose Gear (Joe)
2. 02:17 PM - Re: Nose Gear (Jay Bannister)
3. 02:24 PM - Re: Nose Gear (Bryan Martin)
4. 02:36 PM - Re: Nose Gear (Jay Bannister)
5. 03:05 PM - Re: Nose Gear (fritz)
6. 04:35 PM - Re: Nose Gear (Bryan Martin)
7. 04:41 PM - Re: [Probable Spam] Nose Gear (Larry McFarland)
8. 04:52 PM - Re: Nose Gear (Jay Bannister)
Message 1
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Hi Guys and Gals!
I have a bunch of questions. I'm getting ready to hang my engine and I cross
referenced my plans with the new 601/650 plans and it seems that the nose
gear and firewall parts have changed a lot since my kit was made. I also
needed an new lower bearing block for the nose gear because the threads in
the block were a little sloppy. I ordered all the new gussets and other
parts from Sherley today at the factory. I also ordered the new bearing
block, but just about choked when I found out it costs about $135!!! Back
about a year ago, someone designed a lower bearing block that didn't have
the V on both sides. It was just a flat piece of stock on both sides. I
always wondered, what do the rudder pedals feel like in flight when the
rudders are neutral? Can you feel the nose gear going up and down in the
bearing block when using the ruddrer? Do the pedals return to center
automaticly when you remove your feet because of the V shape in the block?
Is that V shape nessessary? Is anyone doing the job better?
Also, please let me know if you have any firewall forward pictures on your
web sites I can look at. Please direct me to your site if you are using the
Jab 3300.
Is anyone else upgrading their nose gear parts to the new system? Is it
needed? Were the changes made because of a landing incident or structural
problem. The change doesn't seem to be manditory, but the strength increase
looks substantial! I also like the new wind covers for the steering rods!
Thanks everyone!!!
Joe in Oshkosh
Message 2
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Joe,
I believe the "V" grooves do center the gear, but the centering is slight e
nough that it doesn't hinder use of the rudder. I would retain them.
The fastening of the bearing block is another thing. I didn't feel secure
about threading that plastic for the bolts. I drilled the bolt holes all t
he way through and used a Forsner bit to make a recess for the bolt heads s
o they wouldn't interfere with the steering rods. See photo. I used all-m
etal self-locking nuts on the bottom.
Jay
Message 3
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First of all, you should be aware that the rudder cable tension must be set with
the nose wheel off the ground so that the strut is bottomed out as it would
be in flight. This is because the strut moves up and back with weight on the nose
gear, making the cables loose on the ground. If you set the tension with weight
on the gear, the cables will tighten significantly in flight.
With the proper tension set, I don't feel the gear moving up and down in the V
and the rudder will self center. It does take a little bit of force to move the
rudder pedals but it doesn't take excessive force to push the rudder to its
stops if needed. I have found that I don't need much rudder in normal flight,
the plane has very little adverse yaw. I use the rudders mostly during final approach
to landing. I can put the rudder full left and ailerons full right in
a forward slip and lose altitude in a hurry if needed.
If the only problem with the old bearing is sloppy threads, you might try using
some kind of glue as a filler to take up the slop when you install the bolts.
Something like Shoe Goo might work.
On Apr 26, 2011, at 4:22 PM, Joe wrote:
>
> Hi Guys and Gals!
>
> I have a bunch of questions. I'm getting ready to hang my engine and I cross
referenced my plans with the new 601/650 plans and it seems that the nose gear
and firewall parts have changed a lot since my kit was made. I also needed an
new lower bearing block for the nose gear because the threads in the block were
a little sloppy. I ordered all the new gussets and other parts from Sherley
today at the factory. I also ordered the new bearing block, but just about choked
when I found out it costs about $135!!! Back about a year ago, someone designed
a lower bearing block that didn't have the V on both sides. It was just
a flat piece of stock on both sides. I always wondered, what do the rudder pedals
feel like in flight when the rudders are neutral? Can you feel the nose gear
going up and down in the bearing block when using the ruddrer? Do the pedals
return to center automaticly when you remove your feet because of the V shape
in the block? Is that V shape nessessary? Is anyone doing the job better?
>
> Also, please let me know if you have any firewall forward pictures on your web
sites I can look at. Please direct me to your site if you are using the Jab
3300.
>
> Is anyone else upgrading their nose gear parts to the new system? Is it needed?
Were the changes made because of a landing incident or structural problem.
The change doesn't seem to be manditory, but the strength increase looks substantial!
I also like the new wind covers for the steering rods! Thanks everyone!!!
>
> Joe in Oshkosh
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
Message 4
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I read the advice about setting the rudder cable tension with the nose gear
off the ground. However, even with the weight of a Corvair engine, I neve
r saw the steering arms off the bearing block. It was always "bottomed out
". That advice may may be good with an old, tired bungee, but raising the
nose gear off the ground shouldn't be necessary with a new one.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Nose Gear
t>
First of all, you should be aware that the rudder cable tension must be set
with
the nose wheel off the ground so that the strut is bottomed out as it would
be
in flight. This is because the strut moves up and back with weight on the n
ose
gear, making the cables loose on the ground. If you set the tension with we
ight
on the gear, the cables will tighten significantly in flight.
With the proper tension set, I don't feel the gear moving up and down in th
e V
and the rudder will self center. It does take a little bit of force to move
the
rudder pedals but it doesn't take excessive force to push the rudder to its
stops if needed. I have found that I don't need much rudder in normal fligh
t,
the plane has very little adverse yaw. I use the rudders mostly during fina
l
approach to landing. I can put the rudder full left and ailerons full right
in a
forward slip and lose altitude in a hurry if needed.
If the only problem with the old bearing is sloppy threads, you might try u
sing
some kind of glue as a filler to take up the slop when you install the bolt
s.
Something like Shoe Goo might work.
On Apr 26, 2011, at 4:22 PM, Joe wrote:
>
> Hi Guys and Gals!
>
> I have a bunch of questions. I'm getting ready to hang my engine and I cr
oss
referenced my plans with the new 601/650 plans and it seems that the nose g
ear
and firewall parts have changed a lot since my kit was made. I also needed
an
new lower bearing block for the nose gear because the threads in the block
were
a little sloppy. I ordered all the new gussets and other parts from Sherley
today at the factory. I also ordered the new bearing block, but just about
choked when I found out it costs about $135!!! Back about a year ago, someo
ne
designed a lower bearing block that didn't have the V on both sides. It was
just
a flat piece of stock on both sides. I always wondered, what do the rudder
pedals feel like in flight when the rudders are neutral? Can you feel the n
ose
gear going up and down in the bearing block when using the ruddrer? Do the
pedals return to center automaticly when you remove your feet because of th
e V
shape in the block? Is that V shape nessessary? Is anyo!
ne doing the job better?
>
> Also, please let me know if you have any firewall forward pictures on you
r web
sites I can look at. Please direct me to your site if you are using the Jab
3300.
>
> Is anyone else upgrading their nose gear parts to the new system? Is it
needed? Were the changes made because of a landing incident or structural
problem. The change doesn't seem to be manditory, but the strength increase
looks substantial! I also like the new wind covers for the steering rods! T
hanks
everyone!!!
>
> Joe in Oshkosh
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
Message 5
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"V" notch is worthless !!!!!!!
Fritz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe" <backstagelive@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:22 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Nose Gear
>
> Hi Guys and Gals!
>
> I have a bunch of questions. I'm getting ready to hang my engine and I
> cross referenced my plans with the new 601/650 plans and it seems that the
> nose gear and firewall parts have changed a lot since my kit was made. I
> also needed an new lower bearing block for the nose gear because the
> threads in the block were a little sloppy. I ordered all the new gussets
> and other parts from Sherley today at the factory. I also ordered the new
> bearing block, but just about choked when I found out it costs about
> $135!!! Back about a year ago, someone designed a lower bearing block that
> didn't have the V on both sides. It was just a flat piece of stock on both
> sides. I always wondered, what do the rudder pedals feel like in flight
> when the rudders are neutral? Can you feel the nose gear going up and down
> in the bearing block when using the ruddrer? Do the pedals return to
> center automaticly when you remove your feet because of the V shape in the
> block? Is that V shape nessessary? Is anyone doing the job better?
>
> Also, please let me know if you have any firewall forward pictures on your
> web sites I can look at. Please direct me to your site if you are using
> the Jab 3300.
>
> Is anyone else upgrading their nose gear parts to the new system? Is it
> needed? Were the changes made because of a landing incident or structural
> problem. The change doesn't seem to be manditory, but the strength
> increase looks substantial! I also like the new wind covers for the
> steering rods! Thanks everyone!!!
>
> Joe in Oshkosh
>
>
>
Message 6
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Before I reversed the main gear spring and put a new bungee on my nose gear strut,
my nose strut would sag about half an inch on the ground. It probably sagged
a bit more with my weight in the cabin while checking the tension. After blocking
up the nose and setting the tension with the strut bottomed out, the cables
would be nearly slack with weight on the nose gear. It made a big difference
in the feel of the rudder in flight. It doesn't take much deflection to have
a significant effect on the tension.
The point is to make sure the strut is in its "in flight" position when you set
the tension.
On Apr 26, 2011, at 5:33 PM, Jay Bannister wrote:
> I read the advice about setting the rudder cable tension with the nose gear off
the ground. However, even with the weight of a Corvair engine, I never saw
the steering arms off the bearing block. It was always "bottomed out". That
advice may may be good with an old, tired bungee, but raising the nose gear off
the ground shouldn't be necessary with a new one.
>
> Jay
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
Message 7
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Hi Joe,
You could build your own bearing blocks. I'd recommend you not put in the
vee each side. It only adds to the
resistance in the steering or rudder action in the air. Without the Vee,
the rudder action is smooth and you can get a serious
slip going with little effort. I seldom use the rudder in cruise. The nose
gear steering arms should be bottomed out on the nylon
when in flight. Just my opinion as an HDS owner/builder.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/stratstops.gif
This is another way of keeping engine air and CO2 out of the cabin.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/steer-rod-air-barrier
.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/steer-rod-air-barrier
-2.gif
You can check out the comparable hardware on my site and if you mess
something up, try scratch-building
the replacement parts yourself.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 3:23 PM
Subject: [Probable Spam] Zenith601-List: Nose Gear
Hi Guys and Gals!
I have a bunch of questions. I'm getting ready to hang my engine and I cross
referenced my plans with the new 601/650 plans and it seems that the nose
gear and firewall parts have changed a lot since my kit was made. I also
needed an new lower bearing block for the nose gear because the threads in
the block were a little sloppy. I ordered all the new gussets and other
parts from Sherley today at the factory. I also ordered the new bearing
block, but just about choked when I found out it costs about $135!!! Back
about a year ago, someone designed a lower bearing block that didn't have
the V on both sides. It was just a flat piece of stock on both sides. I
always wondered, what do the rudder pedals feel like in flight when the
rudders are neutral? Can you feel the nose gear going up and down in the
bearing block when using the ruddrer? Do the pedals return to center
automaticly when you remove your feet because of the V shape in the block?
Is that V shape nessessary? Is anyone doing the job better?
Also, please let me know if you have any firewall forward pictures on your
web sites I can look at. Please direct me to your site if you are using the
Jab 3300.
Is anyone else upgrading their nose gear parts to the new system? Is it
needed? Were the changes made because of a landing incident or structural
problem. The change doesn't seem to be manditory, but the strength increase
looks substantial! I also like the new wind covers for the steering rods!
Thanks everyone!!!
Joe in Oshkosh
Message 8
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Bryan, You are absolutely correct about the effect of deflection on cable
tension. I tried to explain it to another builder without success; so I ma
de a drawing to show why it works that way. Drawing attached.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 6:36 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Nose Gear
t>
Before I reversed the main gear spring and put a new bungee on my nose gear
strut, my nose strut would sag about half an inch on the ground. It probabl
y
sagged a bit more with my weight in the cabin while checking the tension. A
fter
blocking up the nose and setting the tension with the strut bottomed out, t
he
cables would be nearly slack with weight on the nose gear. It made a big
difference in the feel of the rudder in flight. It doesn't take much deflec
tion
to have a significant effect on the tension.
The point is to make sure the strut is in its "in flight" position when you
set
the tension.
On Apr 26, 2011, at 5:33 PM, Jay Bannister wrote:
> I read the advice about setting the rudder cable tension with the nose ge
ar
off the ground. However, even with the weight of a Corvair engine, I never
saw
the steering arms off the bearing block. It was always "bottomed out". Th
at
advice may may be good with an old, tired bungee, but raising the nose gear
off
the ground shouldn't be necessary with a new one.
>
> Jay
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
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