Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:43 AM - Wings and Rivets (Joe)
2. 12:21 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (Paul Mulwitz)
3. 05:36 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (Carlos Sa)
4. 07:02 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (Ron Lendon)
5. 07:34 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (JohnDRead@aol.com)
6. 07:53 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (James E. Schultz)
7. 10:33 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (xl)
8. 11:01 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Wings and Rivets |
Hey Guys,
I have 2 questions I would like to ask.
1) Rivets. Do the rivets we use have any kind of aircraft designation to
them as far as a mil spec part number or universal part number, or are they
propriatary Zenith parts only. I have never seen them in a Wicks or Aircraft
Spruce catalog. Does anyone know where these rivets come from and what they
are officially called?
2) Wings. My wings and my center section are upgraded and finished, and
ready to be put back in the airplane. this plane was 3/4 finished when the
upgrade was announced so the wings have never been attached. I want to make
sure there will be no surprises when I attach the wings, so I am looking for
some advise. There are ditfferent ways to approach this problem and I would
like to find out how you guys that have attached your wings did it. The wing
attach holes have not been opened up to the final bolt size yet. I was
thinking of taking the center section and attaching it to the wings out of
the airplane and reaming the holes, or I could ream the holes in the center
section to the final size and install the center section on the plane now,
then put the wings on the plane and re-ream the holes to fit. That seems to
be a more precise way of doing it because it would make sure the dihedral is
set perfectly on both wings. Or I could just put in the center section now
and ream the center section and wing spar together at the end of
construction. My question is, did anyone ream the wings and center section
together, how hard was it to do, is there enough room in the cockpit to do a
decent job, and if you had to do it over again, how would you do it?
Thanks.
Joe in Oshkosh
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wings and Rivets |
Hi Joe,
I understand the rivets sold by ZAC are made by a South American
(Brazil?) company called Avex. They are not mil. spec. and indeed are
not considered structural rivets. The story I've heard is that Zenith
tests each batch to insure they are actually better than the
manufacturer guarantees. You can get them from other sources, but then
you face the question of just how good the ones you get are.
I have mounted my wings twice now and the first time was a disaster.
That time I kept enlarging the holes to get them to line up while the
wings were attached. This is nearly impossible to do well because the
cabin side interferes with the outer holes and the seat bottom
interferes with all the holes when you try to drill or ream them.
This time I had the carry through removed and carefully fitted all 12
bolts to the structure. I tried reaming at first but decided drilling
with small steps works better for me. The spar end is so thick that it
is difficult to get a reamer to go straight while a drill bit naturally
finds the hole center. If I drilled using every incremental size drill
of a "Letter" set I found I got very nice holes with little real skill
on my part.
Good luck,
Paul
XL just mounting wings - for the last time -- I hope.
On 5/24/2011 11:40 AM, Joe wrote:
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> I have 2 questions I would like to ask.
>
> 1) Rivets. Do the rivets we use have any kind of aircraft designation
> to them as far as a mil spec part number or universal part number, or
> are they propriatary Zenith parts only. I have never seen them in a
> Wicks or Aircraft Spruce catalog. Does anyone know where these rivets
> come from and what they are officially called?
>
> 2) Wings. My wings and my center section are upgraded and finished,
> and ready to be put back in the airplane. this plane was 3/4 finished
> when the upgrade was announced so the wings have never been attached.
> I want to make sure there will be no surprises when I attach the
> wings, so I am looking for some advise. There are ditfferent ways to
> approach this problem and I would like to find out how you guys that
> have attached your wings did it. The wing attach holes have not been
> opened up to the final bolt size yet. I was thinking of taking the
> center section and attaching it to the wings out of the airplane and
> reaming the holes, or I could ream the holes in the center section to
> the final size and install the center section on the plane now, then
> put the wings on the plane and re-ream the holes to fit. That seems to
> be a more precise way of doing it because it would make sure the
> dihedral is set perfectly on both wings. Or I could just put in the
> center section now and ream the center section and wing spar together
> at the end of construction. My question is, did anyone ream the wings
> and center section together, how hard was it to do, is there enough
> room in the cockpit to do a decent job, and if you had to do it over
> again, how would you do it?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Joe in Oshkosh
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wings and Rivets |
Hello, Joe
About a thousand years ago (it does feels that way) I posted details on the
Avex rivets (part numbers and such) - check the archives (Zenith list, not
the 601 list), if interested.
At the time, the manufacturer - Avdel - was a Textron company, but they are
now independent (more or less - see
http://www.avdel-global.com/en/company/brand-history.html ).
I believe this is such a fundamental component of the airframe that the best
thing to do is to get them for Zenair - if nothing else, for peace of mind.
Good luck
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
On 24 May 2011 14:40, Joe <backstagelive@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> I have 2 questions I would like to ask.
>
> 1) Rivets. Do the rivets we use have any kind of aircraft designation to
> them as far as a mil spec part number or universal part number, or are they
> propriatary Zenith parts only. I have never seen them in a Wicks or Aircraft
> Spruce catalog. Does anyone know where these rivets come from and what they
> are officially called?
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wings and Rivets |
Joe,
I found them here
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/avexblindriv.php
We use the 120 degree ones.
--------
Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340872#340872
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wings and Rivets |
I believe Zenith has qualified product from Canadian and UK plants. A phone
call to Zenith would confirm. Personally I would buy rivets from Zenith as
they test the batches. do not archive
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
In a message dated 5/24/2011 6:36:54 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
carlossa52@gmail.com writes:
Hello, Joe
About a thousand years ago (it does feels that way) I posted details on
the Avex rivets (part numbers and such) - check the archives (Zenith list,
not the 601 list), if interested.
At the time, the manufacturer - Avdel - was a Textron company, but they
are now independent (more or less - see
_http://www.avdel-global.com/en/company/brand-history.html_
(http://www.avdel-global.com/en/company/brand-history.html) ).
I believe this is such a fundamental component of the airframe that the
best thing to do is to get them for Zenair - if nothing else, for peace of
mind.
Good luck
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
On 24 May 2011 14:40, Joe <_backstagelive@gmail.com_
(mailto:backstagelive@gmail.com) > wrote:
(mailto:backstagelive@gmail.com) >
Hey Guys,
I have 2 questions I would like to ask.
1) Rivets. Do the rivets we use have any kind of aircraft designation to
them as far as a mil spec part number or universal part number, or are they
propriatary Zenith parts only. I have never seen them in a Wicks or
Aircraft Spruce catalog. Does anyone know where these rivets come from and what
they are officially called?
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Wings and Rivets |
Hi guys
I shortened the undersize bit so I could get it into the wing bolt access h
ole and did the same
with a 3/8 reamer. I then inserted an AN 3/8 bolt to get a good tight fit.
Used a right angle
drill motor to do the job.
Regards
JES
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe <backstagelive@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 11:43 am
Subject: Zenith601-List: Wings and Rivets
Hey Guys,
I have 2 questions I would like to ask.
1) Rivets. Do the rivets we use have any kind of aircraft designation to
them as far as a mil spec part number or universal part number, or are they
propriatary Zenith parts only. I have never seen them in a Wicks or Aircraf
t
Spruce catalog. Does anyone know where these rivets come from and what they
are officially called?
2) Wings. My wings and my center section are upgraded and finished, and
ready to be put back in the airplane. this plane was 3/4 finished when the
upgrade was announced so the wings have never been attached. I want to make
sure there will be no surprises when I attach the wings, so I am looking fo
r
some advise. There are ditfferent ways to approach this problem and I would
like to find out how you guys that have attached your wings did it. The win
g
attach holes have not been opened up to the final bolt size yet. I was
thinking of taking the center section and attaching it to the wings out of
the airplane and reaming the holes, or I could ream the holes in the center
section to the final size and install the center section on the plane now,
then put the wings on the plane and re-ream the holes to fit. That seems to
be a more precise way of doing it because it would make sure the dihedral i
s
set perfectly on both wings. Or I could just put in the center section now
and ream the center section and wing spar together at the end of
construction. My question is, did anyone ream the wings and center section
together, how hard was it to do, is there enough room in the cockpit to do
a
decent job, and if you had to do it over again, how would you do it?
Thanks.
Joe in Oshkosh
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Wings and Rivets |
Paul,
You may know that I rarely post.
In ths case, I decided that I must.
Although I am just an experimental airplane builder/flyer.
The instructions provided with the upgrade kit emphasize
that the spar holes must be reamed. Close tolerance bolts
are used. You should not only drill the holes.
You should ream them also.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaming
Reaming versus drilling to size
The geometry of a hole drilled in metal by a twist drill may not be
accurate enough (close enough to a true cylinder of a certain precise
diameter) and may not have the required smooth surface finish for certain
engineering applications. Although modern twist drills can perform
excellently in many cases=94usually producing sufficiently accurate h
oles
for most applications=94sometimes the stringency of the requirements
for
the hole's geometry and finish necessitate two operations: a drilling to
slightly undersize, followed by reaming with a reamer. .... .... ...
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
CH601XLb, 680 hours, >60 since the upgrade
Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x51 wood prop
On Tue, 24 May 2011, Paul Mulwitz wrote: >
> Hi Joe,
> ........snip ....snip
> This time I had the carry through removed and carefully fitted all 12 bol
ts
> to the structure. I tried reaming at first but decided drilling with sma
ll
> steps works better for me. The spar end is so thick that it is difficult
to
> get a reamer to go straight while a drill bit naturally finds the hole
> center. If I drilled using every incremental size drill of a "Letter" se
t I
> found I got very nice holes with little real skill on my part.
> Good luck, Paul
> XL just mounting wings - for the last time -- I hope.
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Wings and Rivets |
Indeed.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html
On the RVs the spar holes are reamed and then *burnished*.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of xl
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Wings and Rivets
Paul,
You may know that I rarely post.
In ths case, I decided that I must.
Although I am just an experimental airplane builder/flyer.
The instructions provided with the upgrade kit emphasize
that the spar holes must be reamed. Close tolerance bolts
are used. You should not only drill the holes.
You should ream them also.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaming
Reaming versus drilling to size
The geometry of a hole drilled in metal by a twist drill may not be
accurate enough (close enough to a true cylinder of a certain precise
diameter) and may not have the required smooth surface finish for certain
engineering applications. Although modern twist drills can perform
excellently in many casesusually producing sufficiently accurate holes
for most applicationssometimes the stringency of the requirements for
the hole's geometry and finish necessitate two operations: a drilling to
slightly undersize, followed by reaming with a reamer. .... .... ...
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
CH601XLb, 680 hours, >60 since the upgrade
Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x51 wood prop
On Tue, 24 May 2011, Paul Mulwitz wrote: >
> Hi Joe,
> ........snip ....snip
> This time I had the carry through removed and carefully fitted all 12 bolts
> to the structure. I tried reaming at first but decided drilling with small
> steps works better for me. The spar end is so thick that it is difficult to
> get a reamer to go straight while a drill bit naturally finds the hole
> center. If I drilled using every incremental size drill of a "Letter" set I
> found I got very nice holes with little real skill on my part.
> Good luck, Paul
> XL just mounting wings - for the last time -- I hope.
<pre><b><font size=2 color=000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre>
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