---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith601-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/24/11: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:43 AM - Wings and Rivets (Joe) 2. 12:21 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (Paul Mulwitz) 3. 05:36 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (Carlos Sa) 4. 07:02 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (Ron Lendon) 5. 07:34 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (JohnDRead@aol.com) 6. 07:53 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (James E. Schultz) 7. 10:33 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (xl) 8. 11:01 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:03 AM PST US From: "Joe" Subject: Zenith601-List: Wings and Rivets Hey Guys, I have 2 questions I would like to ask. 1) Rivets. Do the rivets we use have any kind of aircraft designation to them as far as a mil spec part number or universal part number, or are they propriatary Zenith parts only. I have never seen them in a Wicks or Aircraft Spruce catalog. Does anyone know where these rivets come from and what they are officially called? 2) Wings. My wings and my center section are upgraded and finished, and ready to be put back in the airplane. this plane was 3/4 finished when the upgrade was announced so the wings have never been attached. I want to make sure there will be no surprises when I attach the wings, so I am looking for some advise. There are ditfferent ways to approach this problem and I would like to find out how you guys that have attached your wings did it. The wing attach holes have not been opened up to the final bolt size yet. I was thinking of taking the center section and attaching it to the wings out of the airplane and reaming the holes, or I could ream the holes in the center section to the final size and install the center section on the plane now, then put the wings on the plane and re-ream the holes to fit. That seems to be a more precise way of doing it because it would make sure the dihedral is set perfectly on both wings. Or I could just put in the center section now and ream the center section and wing spar together at the end of construction. My question is, did anyone ream the wings and center section together, how hard was it to do, is there enough room in the cockpit to do a decent job, and if you had to do it over again, how would you do it? Thanks. Joe in Oshkosh ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:24 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Wings and Rivets Hi Joe, I understand the rivets sold by ZAC are made by a South American (Brazil?) company called Avex. They are not mil. spec. and indeed are not considered structural rivets. The story I've heard is that Zenith tests each batch to insure they are actually better than the manufacturer guarantees. You can get them from other sources, but then you face the question of just how good the ones you get are. I have mounted my wings twice now and the first time was a disaster. That time I kept enlarging the holes to get them to line up while the wings were attached. This is nearly impossible to do well because the cabin side interferes with the outer holes and the seat bottom interferes with all the holes when you try to drill or ream them. This time I had the carry through removed and carefully fitted all 12 bolts to the structure. I tried reaming at first but decided drilling with small steps works better for me. The spar end is so thick that it is difficult to get a reamer to go straight while a drill bit naturally finds the hole center. If I drilled using every incremental size drill of a "Letter" set I found I got very nice holes with little real skill on my part. Good luck, Paul XL just mounting wings - for the last time -- I hope. On 5/24/2011 11:40 AM, Joe wrote: > > Hey Guys, > > I have 2 questions I would like to ask. > > 1) Rivets. Do the rivets we use have any kind of aircraft designation > to them as far as a mil spec part number or universal part number, or > are they propriatary Zenith parts only. I have never seen them in a > Wicks or Aircraft Spruce catalog. Does anyone know where these rivets > come from and what they are officially called? > > 2) Wings. My wings and my center section are upgraded and finished, > and ready to be put back in the airplane. this plane was 3/4 finished > when the upgrade was announced so the wings have never been attached. > I want to make sure there will be no surprises when I attach the > wings, so I am looking for some advise. There are ditfferent ways to > approach this problem and I would like to find out how you guys that > have attached your wings did it. The wing attach holes have not been > opened up to the final bolt size yet. I was thinking of taking the > center section and attaching it to the wings out of the airplane and > reaming the holes, or I could ream the holes in the center section to > the final size and install the center section on the plane now, then > put the wings on the plane and re-ream the holes to fit. That seems to > be a more precise way of doing it because it would make sure the > dihedral is set perfectly on both wings. Or I could just put in the > center section now and ream the center section and wing spar together > at the end of construction. My question is, did anyone ream the wings > and center section together, how hard was it to do, is there enough > room in the cockpit to do a decent job, and if you had to do it over > again, how would you do it? > > Thanks. > > Joe in Oshkosh > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:39 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Wings and Rivets Hello, Joe About a thousand years ago (it does feels that way) I posted details on the Avex rivets (part numbers and such) - check the archives (Zenith list, not the 601 list), if interested. At the time, the manufacturer - Avdel - was a Textron company, but they are now independent (more or less - see http://www.avdel-global.com/en/company/brand-history.html ). I believe this is such a fundamental component of the airframe that the best thing to do is to get them for Zenair - if nothing else, for peace of mind. Good luck Carlos CH601-HD, plans On 24 May 2011 14:40, Joe wrote: > > Hey Guys, > > I have 2 questions I would like to ask. > > 1) Rivets. Do the rivets we use have any kind of aircraft designation to > them as far as a mil spec part number or universal part number, or are they > propriatary Zenith parts only. I have never seen them in a Wicks or Aircraft > Spruce catalog. Does anyone know where these rivets come from and what they > are officially called? > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:03 PM PST US Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Wings and Rivets From: "Ron Lendon" Joe, I found them here http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/avexblindriv.php We use the 120 degree ones. -------- Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Corvair Engine Prints: http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340872#340872 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:51 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Wings and Rivets I believe Zenith has qualified product from Canadian and UK plants. A phone call to Zenith would confirm. Personally I would buy rivets from Zenith as they test the batches. do not archive Regards, John CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 Cell: 719-494-4567 Home: 303-648-3261 In a message dated 5/24/2011 6:36:54 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, carlossa52@gmail.com writes: Hello, Joe About a thousand years ago (it does feels that way) I posted details on the Avex rivets (part numbers and such) - check the archives (Zenith list, not the 601 list), if interested. At the time, the manufacturer - Avdel - was a Textron company, but they are now independent (more or less - see _http://www.avdel-global.com/en/company/brand-history.html_ (http://www.avdel-global.com/en/company/brand-history.html) ). I believe this is such a fundamental component of the airframe that the best thing to do is to get them for Zenair - if nothing else, for peace of mind. Good luck Carlos CH601-HD, plans On 24 May 2011 14:40, Joe <_backstagelive@gmail.com_ (mailto:backstagelive@gmail.com) > wrote: (mailto:backstagelive@gmail.com) > Hey Guys, I have 2 questions I would like to ask. 1) Rivets. Do the rivets we use have any kind of aircraft designation to them as far as a mil spec part number or universal part number, or are they propriatary Zenith parts only. I have never seen them in a Wicks or Aircraft Spruce catalog. Does anyone know where these rivets come from and what they are officially called? (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Wings and Rivets From: "James E. Schultz" Hi guys I shortened the undersize bit so I could get it into the wing bolt access h ole and did the same with a 3/8 reamer. I then inserted an AN 3/8 bolt to get a good tight fit. Used a right angle drill motor to do the job. Regards JES -----Original Message----- From: Joe Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 11:43 am Subject: Zenith601-List: Wings and Rivets Hey Guys, I have 2 questions I would like to ask. 1) Rivets. Do the rivets we use have any kind of aircraft designation to them as far as a mil spec part number or universal part number, or are they propriatary Zenith parts only. I have never seen them in a Wicks or Aircraf t Spruce catalog. Does anyone know where these rivets come from and what they are officially called? 2) Wings. My wings and my center section are upgraded and finished, and ready to be put back in the airplane. this plane was 3/4 finished when the upgrade was announced so the wings have never been attached. I want to make sure there will be no surprises when I attach the wings, so I am looking fo r some advise. There are ditfferent ways to approach this problem and I would like to find out how you guys that have attached your wings did it. The win g attach holes have not been opened up to the final bolt size yet. I was thinking of taking the center section and attaching it to the wings out of the airplane and reaming the holes, or I could ream the holes in the center section to the final size and install the center section on the plane now, then put the wings on the plane and re-ream the holes to fit. That seems to be a more precise way of doing it because it would make sure the dihedral i s set perfectly on both wings. Or I could just put in the center section now and ream the center section and wing spar together at the end of construction. My question is, did anyone ream the wings and center section together, how hard was it to do, is there enough room in the cockpit to do a decent job, and if you had to do it over again, how would you do it? Thanks. Joe in Oshkosh ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:18 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Wings and Rivets Paul, You may know that I rarely post. In ths case, I decided that I must. Although I am just an experimental airplane builder/flyer. The instructions provided with the upgrade kit emphasize that the spar holes must be reamed. Close tolerance bolts are used. You should not only drill the holes. You should ream them also. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaming Reaming versus drilling to size The geometry of a hole drilled in metal by a twist drill may not be accurate enough (close enough to a true cylinder of a certain precise diameter) and may not have the required smooth surface finish for certain engineering applications. Although modern twist drills can perform excellently in many cases=94usually producing sufficiently accurate h oles for most applications=94sometimes the stringency of the requirements for the hole's geometry and finish necessitate two operations: a drilling to slightly undersize, followed by reaming with a reamer. .... .... ... Joe E N633Z @ BFI CH601XLb, 680 hours, >60 since the upgrade Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x51 wood prop On Tue, 24 May 2011, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > Hi Joe, > ........snip ....snip > This time I had the carry through removed and carefully fitted all 12 bol ts > to the structure. I tried reaming at first but decided drilling with sma ll > steps works better for me. The spar end is so thick that it is difficult to > get a reamer to go straight while a drill bit naturally finds the hole > center. If I drilled using every incremental size drill of a "Letter" se t I > found I got very nice holes with little real skill on my part. > Good luck, Paul > XL just mounting wings - for the last time -- I hope.
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:01:25 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Wings and Rivets Indeed. http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html On the RVs the spar holes are reamed and then *burnished*. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of xl Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 10:30 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Wings and Rivets Paul, You may know that I rarely post. In ths case, I decided that I must. Although I am just an experimental airplane builder/flyer. The instructions provided with the upgrade kit emphasize that the spar holes must be reamed. Close tolerance bolts are used. You should not only drill the holes. You should ream them also. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaming Reaming versus drilling to size The geometry of a hole drilled in metal by a twist drill may not be accurate enough (close enough to a true cylinder of a certain precise diameter) and may not have the required smooth surface finish for certain engineering applications. Although modern twist drills can perform excellently in many casesusually producing sufficiently accurate holes for most applicationssometimes the stringency of the requirements for the hole's geometry and finish necessitate two operations: a drilling to slightly undersize, followed by reaming with a reamer. .... .... ... Joe E N633Z @ BFI CH601XLb, 680 hours, >60 since the upgrade Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x51 wood prop On Tue, 24 May 2011, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > Hi Joe, > ........snip ....snip > This time I had the carry through removed and carefully fitted all 12 bolts > to the structure. I tried reaming at first but decided drilling with small > steps works better for me. The spar end is so thick that it is difficult to > get a reamer to go straight while a drill bit naturally finds the hole > center. If I drilled using every incremental size drill of a "Letter" set I > found I got very nice holes with little real skill on my part. > Good luck, Paul > XL just mounting wings - for the last time -- I hope.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith601-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith601-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith601-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith601-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.