Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:38 AM - Re: Wings and Rivets (Paul Mulwitz)
2. 05:48 AM - Re: [Probable Spam] Re: Wings and Rivets (Larry McFarland)
3. 07:09 AM - Re: Wings and Rivets (countzero)
4. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: Wings and Rivets (Paul Mulwitz)
5. 12:37 PM - Re: Wings and Rivets (countzero)
6. 02:18 PM - Re: Re: Wings and Rivets (Paul Mulwitz)
7. 03:26 PM - Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. (Paul Mulwitz)
8. 04:02 PM - Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. ()
9. 04:30 PM - Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. (Paul Mulwitz)
10. 04:45 PM - Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. ()
11. 06:29 PM - Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. (Ronald Steele)
12. 07:39 PM - Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. (Jerry)
13. 08:27 PM - Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. (Paul Mulwitz)
14. 09:08 PM - Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. (Jerry)
15. 09:25 PM - Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. (Paul Mulwitz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wings and Rivets |
Hi Joe,
Thank you for your comment regarding reaming vs. drilling holes.
I can only report my experience with this issue rather than claim any
expertise in the engineering details. I tried to do these holes by
drilling undersized and then reaming and the results were inconsistent
and mostly horrible. I have had good luck with this approach on
relatively thin pieces of metal, but the upgraded wing spar stack is
just plain huge. I wasn't able to keep the reamer going in the desired
direction through both layers of the carry through structure and wing
main spar.
Using normal drills worked better for me. The holes appear nice and
round and the surface of the hole seems very smooth. I did this by step
drilling perhaps 0.020 inch increments from the initial size to the
final size. My over sized bolts (AN6-21A for most holes) slip into the
final holes without any force but do not wiggle at all when inserted.
If I measure the bolt and hole with digital calipers I have less than
.005 inches total clearance. Considering the fact that there are 6
bolts holding the same pieces together and the large bolts are properly
torqued I feel there is little risk of slippage or other problems with
the final structure.
If I am wrong then I will pay the appropriate price. I am confident any
problems that develop over time will show up on annual inspections
rather than catastrophic structure failure.
Paul
Xl - In final stages before inspection for airworthiness cert.
On 5/24/2011 10:30 PM, xl wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> You may know that I rarely post.
> In ths case, I decided that I must.
> Although I am just an experimental airplane builder/flyer.
>
> The instructions provided with the upgrade kit emphasize
> that the spar holes must be reamed. Close tolerance bolts
> are used. You should not only drill the holes.
> You should ream them also.
>
> See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaming
> Reaming versus drilling to size
> The geometry of a hole drilled in metal by a twist drill may not be
> accurate enough (close enough to a true cylinder of a certain precise
> diameter) and may not have the required smooth surface finish for
> certain engineering applications. Although modern twist drills can
> perform excellently in many casesusually producing sufficiently
> accurate holes for most applicationssometimes the stringency of the
> requirements for the hole's geometry and finish necessitate two
> operations: a drilling to slightly undersize, followed by reaming with
> a reamer. .... .... ...
>
> Joe E
> N633Z @ BFI
> CH601XLb, 680 hours, >60 since the upgrade
> Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x51 wood prop
>
>
> On Tue, 24 May 2011, Paul Mulwitz wrote: >
>> Hi Joe,
>> ........snip ....snip
>> This time I had the carry through removed and carefully fitted all 12
>> bolts to the structure. I tried reaming at first but decided
>> drilling with small steps works better for me. The spar end is so
>> thick that it is difficult to get a reamer to go straight while a
>> drill bit naturally finds the hole center. If I drilled using every
>> incremental size drill of a "Letter" set I found I got very nice
>> holes with little real skill on my part.
>> Good luck, Paul
>> XL just mounting wings - for the last time -- I hope.
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List</a>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Wings and Rivets |
On the subject of holes, you'll find it's much easier to get perfect alignment
and hole size if you weld a piece of solid stock
to a plate and then drill it with the size you need. Then turn the round stock
and cut a perpendicular flat on the plate. This is a lesson
I learned the hard way, but it always works and you only have to locate thru the
hole, clamp and drill. Much easier! See link,
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/TJH/drillingguides/full/predrill-marking(2).gif
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:59 AM
Subject: [Probable Spam] RE: Zenith601-List: Wings and Rivets
--> <craig@craigandjean.com>
Indeed.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html
On the RVs the spar holes are reamed and then *burnished*.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of xl
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Wings and Rivets
Paul,
You may know that I rarely post.
In ths case, I decided that I must.
Although I am just an experimental airplane builder/flyer.
The instructions provided with the upgrade kit emphasize that the spar holes must
be reamed. Close tolerance bolts are used. You should not only drill the holes.
You should ream them also.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaming
Reaming versus drilling to size
The geometry of a hole drilled in metal by a twist drill may not be accurate enough
(close enough to a true cylinder of a certain precise
diameter) and may not have the required smooth surface finish for certain engineering
applications. Although modern twist drills can perform excellently in many
casesusually producing sufficiently accurate holes for most applicationssometimes
the stringency of the requirements for the hole's geometry and finish
necessitate two operations: a drilling to slightly undersize, followed by reaming
with a reamer. .... .... ...
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
CH601XLb, 680 hours, >60 since the upgrade Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x51 wood prop
On Tue, 24 May 2011, Paul Mulwitz wrote: >
> Hi Joe,
> ........snip ....snip
> This time I had the carry through removed and carefully fitted all 12
> bolts to the structure. I tried reaming at first but decided drilling
> with small steps works better for me. The spar end is so thick that
> it is difficult to get a reamer to go straight while a drill bit
> naturally finds the hole center. If I drilled using every incremental
> size drill of a "Letter" set I found I got very nice holes with little real skill
on my part.
> Good luck, Paul
> XL just mounting wings - for the last time -- I hope.
<pre><b><font size=2 color=000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wings and Rivets |
Hi Paul,
Did you know AN6 bolts have a rated uts of only 10.1ksi whereas the specified NAS6205
bolts are good for 12.1ksi?
Also, AN bolt tolerances are class C - general purpose limits, NAS6205 bolts are
class A - precision manufacturing limits. You might find the NAS bolts are too
loose in a hole drilled for ANs.
Regards,
Rob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340933#340933
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| Subject: | Re: Wings and Rivets |
Hi Rob,
Is tensile strength an issue in this application?
It seems to me the primary issue is shear strength.
Paul
On 5/25/2011 7:07 AM, countzero wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> Did you know AN6 bolts have a rated uts of only 10.1ksi whereas the specified
NAS6205 bolts are good for 12.1ksi?
>
> Also, AN bolt tolerances are class C - general purpose limits, NAS6205 bolts
are class A - precision manufacturing limits. You might find the NAS bolts are
too loose in a hole drilled for ANs.
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wings and Rivets |
Hi Paul, I've edited the numbers in my previous post as they were probably misleading/definitely
wrong.
Weren't the AN bolts changed to NAS after the ANs failed in bending during the
Zenith testing prior to the upgrades? I'm sure I remembered seeing photos of bent
bolts in some report from Zenith.
The ANs have an Fsu of 75ksi so 3/8 ANs should not have an issue with shear strength.
I've never heard of any bolts being sheared off, what's the issue there?
Rob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340996#340996
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Wings and Rivets |
Hi Rob,
I'm not sure there is an issue here.
I don't know about any bolt problems shown in the various accident
wreckage. Of course, I have not really paid attention to that level of
detail, so I might be wrong.
I recall some details in the 40 page document released by the FAA that
talked about permanent deformation in the bolt area when subjected to
load testing, but I don't think this was actually talking about the
bolts themselves. I took it to mean the holes had permanent deformation.
It is really hard to bend a steel bolt in shear load. My guess is any
failure in the bolts would be a broken bolt rather than a bent one.
I remember many examples of broken spar caps in the carry through and
the main wing spar near the wing root. Of course, these aluminum bars
are not nearly as strong as large steel bolts.
I would be happy to be corrected if my memory or lack of mechanical
engineering know-how points to a possible problem with my use of 6 AN6
bolts on each wing root.
Paul
On 5/25/2011 12:34 PM, countzero wrote:
> Hi Paul, I've edited the numbers in my previous post as they were probably misleading/definitely
wrong.
>
> Weren't the AN bolts changed to NAS after the ANs failed in bending during the
Zenith testing prior to the upgrades? I'm sure I remembered seeing photos of
bent bolts in some report from Zenith.
>
> The ANs have an Fsu of 75ksi so 3/8 ANs should not have an issue with shear strength.
I've never heard of any bolts being sheared off, what's the issue there?
>
> Rob
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. |
While thinking about flight test on my XL I have been trying to come up
with a neat way to record data. The recent NTSB report on the crash in
Alaska brought the idea of a cockpit voice recorder to mind. I'm sure
the ones used by the airlines are more expensive than a whole Zodiac,
but I tried to come up with a lower priced alternative.
It is a normal pocket voice recorder with a cable to plug it into the
headset jack intended for the copilot. Since there will be no copilot
until phase I testing is completed this is a "Free" jack for attaching
the recorder to the intercom.
I don't know if it will work well yet, but here it is anyway for
everyone to take shots at . . .
Paul
XL nearing flight test
Voice Recorder
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. |
No shooting from here; it makes good sense. You may also want to think
about a small video camera to mount over-the-shoulder, to monitor your
instruments while doing the Vx, Vy, stall speeds and such. Could also be
helpful in correlating engine temps with flight regimes.
Paul R
Wish I were that far along
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz<mailto:psm@att.net>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 5:22 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder.
While thinking about flight test on my XL I have been trying to come
up with a neat way to record data. The recent NTSB report on the crash
in Alaska brought the idea of a cockpit voice recorder to mind. I'm
sure the ones used by the airlines are more expensive than a whole
Zodiac, but I tried to come up with a lower priced alternative.
It is a normal pocket voice recorder with a cable to plug it into the
headset jack intended for the copilot. Since there will be no copilot
until phase I testing is completed this is a "Free" jack for attaching
the recorder to the intercom.
I don't know if it will work well yet, but here it is anyway for
everyone to take shots at . . .
Paul
XL nearing flight test
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. |
Hi Paul,
I considered some kind of video recording device as well as the voice
option. Actually the voice option just came to mind.
Video might be nice, but the voice recorder seems very simple to install
and also to use after the recording is made. I really only want
performance data and I can "Talk to myself" with the intercom to record
things like stall speeds and other critical airspeed data. Video would
make a better recording to share with others, but I really want to find
a nice way to record data without using a pencil and paper. I just
don't have enough hands to fly and write at the same time and I don't
think the trim on this very light plane will fly it well enough so I can
ignore it for the time it takes to write down data.
I tried to insert a picture of my recorder in the first message and it
didn't take. I'll try one more time:
Cockpit voice recorder
Paul
Camas, WA
On 5/25/2011 3:59 PM, paulrod36@msn.com wrote:
> No shooting from here; it makes good sense. You may also want to
> think about a small video camera to mount over-the-shoulder, to
> monitor your instruments while doing the Vx, Vy, stall speeds and
> such. Could also be helpful in correlating engine temps with flight
> regimes.
> Paul R
> Wish I were that far along
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Paul Mulwitz <mailto:psm@att.net>
> *To:* zenith601-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2011 5:22 PM
> *Subject:* Zenith601-List: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder.
>
> While thinking about flight test on my XL I have been trying to
> come up with a neat way to record data. The recent NTSB report on
> the crash in Alaska brought the idea of a cockpit voice recorder
> to mind. I'm sure the ones used by the airlines are more
> expensive than a whole Zodiac, but I tried to come up with a lower
> priced alternative.
>
> It is a normal pocket voice recorder with a cable to plug it into
> the headset jack intended for the copilot. Since there will be no
> copilot until phase I testing is completed this is a "Free" jack
> for attaching the recorder to the intercom.
>
> I don't know if it will work well yet, but here it is anyway for
> everyone to take shots at . . .
>
> Paul
> XL nearing flight test
>
> Voice Recorder
>
> *
>
> title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. |
Cool.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz<mailto:psm@att.net>
To: zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder.
Hi Paul,
I considered some kind of video recording device as well as the voice
option. Actually the voice option just came to mind.
Video might be nice, but the voice recorder seems very simple to
install and also to use after the recording is made. I really only want
performance data and I can "Talk to myself" with the intercom to record
things like stall speeds and other critical airspeed data. Video would
make a better recording to share with others, but I really want to find
a nice way to record data without using a pencil and paper. I just
don't have enough hands to fly and write at the same time and I don't
think the trim on this very light plane will fly it well enough so I can
ignore it for the time it takes to write down data.
I tried to insert a picture of my recorder in the first message and it
didn't take. I'll try one more time:
Paul
Camas, WA
On 5/25/2011 3:59 PM, paulrod36@msn.com<mailto:paulrod36@msn.com>
wrote:
No shooting from here; it makes good sense. You may also want to
think about a small video camera to mount over-the-shoulder, to monitor
your instruments while doing the Vx, Vy, stall speeds and such. Could
also be helpful in correlating engine temps with flight regimes.
Paul R
Wish I were that far along
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz<mailto:psm@att.net>
To:
zenith601-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 5:22 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder.
While thinking about flight test on my XL I have been trying to
come up with a neat way to record data. The recent NTSB report on the
crash in Alaska brought the idea of a cockpit voice recorder to mind.
I'm sure the ones used by the airlines are more expensive than a whole
Zodiac, but I tried to come up with a lower priced alternative.
It is a normal pocket voice recorder with a cable to plug it into
the headset jack intended for the copilot. Since there will be no
copilot until phase I testing is completed this is a "Free" jack for
attaching the recorder to the intercom.
I don't know if it will work well yet, but here it is anyway for
everyone to take shots at . . .
Paul
XL nearing flight test
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List<http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List"<http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Z
enith601-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
href="http://forums.matronics.com"<http://forums.matronics.com/>>http:/
/forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"<http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution>>http://www.matronics.com/c<http://www.matronics.com/c>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. |
I've heard of people putting a small mic inside the ear cup of the
headset.
On May 25, 2011, at 6:22 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> While thinking about flight test on my XL I have been trying to come
> up with a neat way to record data. The recent NTSB report on the
> crash in Alaska brought the idea of a cockpit voice recorder to
> mind. I'm sure the ones used by the airlines are more expensive
> than a whole Zodiac, but I tried to come up with a lower priced
> alternative.
>
> It is a normal pocket voice recorder with a cable to plug it into
> the headset jack intended for the copilot. Since there will be no
> copilot until phase I testing is completed this is a "Free" jack for
> attaching the recorder to the intercom.
>
> I don't know if it will work well yet, but here it is anyway for
> everyone to take shots at . . .
>
> Paul
> XL nearing flight test
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. |
Paul,
You could also use the same arrangement with a video recorder. Just plug th
e headset into the mic input on the recorder or do as someone else suggeste
d place a small mic in your headset.
I used a video recorder and found it to be super useful. I made suction cup
mounting device from a dent puller from Harbor Frieght. I found the plans
on the internet.I was able to bring the video home and refly the entire fli
ght while watching all instruments. Using Windows Media play I was able to
play the video and get super accurate times for ROC data. These are much mo
re accurate than you'll get with a stop watch in the airplane.
My 2cents
Jerry
601HDS, 912, 94 hours, first conditional completed.
---- Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
I considered some kind of video recording device as well as the voice optio
n.=C2- Actually the voice option just came to mind.
Video might be nice, but the voice recorder seems very simple to install an
d also to use after the recording is made.=C2- I really only want perform
ance data and I can "Talk to myself" with the intercom to record things lik
e stall speeds and other critical airspeed data.=C2- Video would make a b
etter recording to share with others, but I really want to find a nice way
to record data without using a pencil and paper.=C2- I just don't have en
ough hands to fly and write at the same time and I don't think the trim on
this very light plane will fly it well enough so I can ignore it for the ti
me it takes to write down data.
I tried to insert a picture of my recorder in the first message and it didn
't take.=C2- I'll try one more time:
Cockpit voice recorder
Paul
Camas, WA
On 5/25/2011 3:59 PM, paulrod36@msn.com wrote:No shooting from here; it mak
es good sense.=C2- You may also want to think about a small video camera
to mount over-the-shoulder, to monitor your instruments while doing the Vx,
Vy, stall speeds and such. Could also be helpful in correlating engine tem
ps with flight regimes.=C2-Paul RWish I were that far along=C2------ Or
iginal Message -----From: Paul MulwitzTo: zenith601-list@matronics.comSent:
Wednesday, May 25, 2011 5:22 PMSubject: Zenith601-List: Poor Man's Cockpit
Voice Recorder.
While thinking about flight test on my XL I have been trying to come up wit
h a neat way to record data.=C2- The recent NTSB report on the crash in A
laska brought the idea of a cockpit voice recorder to mind.=C2- I'm sure
the ones used by the airlines are more expensive than a whole Zodiac, but I
tried to come up with a lower priced alternative.
It is a normal pocket voice recorder with a cable to plug it into the heads
et jack intended for the copilot.=C2- Since there will be no copilot unti
l phase I testing is completed this is a "Free" jack for attaching the reco
rder to the intercom.
I don't know if it will work well yet, but here it is anyway for everyone t
o take shots at . . .
Paul
XL nearing flight test
Voice Recorder
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List href="http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Zenith601-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronic
s.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co
m/c
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. |
Hi Jerry,
If you plug your headset into the video recorder then how do you talk on
the radio?
Paul
On 5/25/2011 7:36 PM, Jerry wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> You could also use the same arrangement with a video recorder. Just
> plug the headset into the mic input on the recorder or do as someone
> else suggested place a small mic in your headset.
>
> I used a video recorder and found it to be super useful. I made
> suction cup mounting device from a dent puller from Harbor Freight. I
> found the plans on the Internet was able to bring the video home and
> refly the entire flight while watching all instruments. Using Windows
> Media play I was able to play the video and get super accurate times
> for ROC data. These are much more accurate than you'll get with a stop
> watch in the airplane.
>
> My 2cents
>
> Jerry
>
> 601HDS, 912, 94 hours, first conditional completed.
>
>
> ---- Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net> wrote:
> > Hi Paul,
>
> I considered some kind of video recording device as well as the voice
> option. Actually the voice option just came to mind.
>
> Video might be nice, but the voice recorder seems very simple to
> install and also to use after the recording is made. I really only
> want performance data and I can "Talk to myself" with the intercom to
> record things like stall speeds and other critical airspeed data.
> Video would make a better recording to share with others, but I really
> want to find a nice way to record data without using a pencil and
> paper. I just don't have enough hands to fly and write at the same
> time and I don't think the trim on this very light plane will fly it
> well enough so I can ignore it for the time it takes to write down data.
>
> I tried to insert a picture of my recorder in the first message and it
> didn't take. I'll try one more time:
>
> Cockpit voice recorder
>
> Paul
> Camas, WA
>
> On 5/25/2011 3:59 PM, paulrod36@msn.com wrote:
>
>> No shooting from here; it makes good sense. You may also want to
>> think about a small video camera to mount over-the-shoulder, to
>> monitor your instruments while doing the Vx, Vy, stall speeds and
>> such. Could also be helpful in correlating engine temps with flight
>> regimes.
>> Paul R
>> Wish I were that far along
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Paul Mulwitz </do/mail/message/mailto?to=psm%40att.net>
>> *To:* zenith601-list@matronics.com
>> </do/mail/message/mailto?to=zenith601-list%40matronics.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2011 5:22 PM
>> *Subject:* Zenith601-List: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder.
>>
>> While thinking about flight test on my XL I have been trying to
>> come up with a neat way to record data. The recent NTSB report
>> on the crash in Alaska brought the idea of a cockpit voice
>> recorder to mind. I'm sure the ones used by the airlines are
>> more expensive than a whole Zodiac, but I tried to come up with a
>> lower priced alternative.
>>
>> It is a normal pocket voice recorder with a cable to plug it into
>> the headset jack intended for the copilot. Since there will be
>> no copilot until phase I testing is completed this is a "Free"
>> jack for attaching the recorder to the intercom.
>>
>> I don't know if it will work well yet, but here it is anyway for
>> everyone to take shots at . . .
>>
>> Paul
>> XL nearing flight test
>>
>> Voice Recorder
>>
>> *title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. |
You plug the the audio input of the video recorder into the copilot's heads
et jack with the intercom on.
Jerry
---- Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net> wrote:
> Hi Jerry,
If you plug your headset into the video recorder then how do you talk on th
e radio?
Paul
On 5/25/2011 7:36 PM, Jerry wrote:
Paul,
You could also use the same arrangement with a video recorder. Just plug th
e headset into the mic input on the recorder or do as someone else suggeste
d place a small mic in your headset.
I used a video recorder and found it to be super useful. I made suction cup
mounting device from a dent puller from Harbor Freight. I found the plans
on the Internet was able to bring the video home and refly the entire fligh
t while watching all instruments. Using Windows Media play I was able to pl
ay the video and get super accurate times for ROC data. These are much more
accurate than you'll get with a stop watch in the airplane.
My 2cents
Jerry
601HDS, 912, 94 hours, first conditional completed.
---- Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
I considered some kind of video recording device as well as the voice optio
n.=C2- Actually the voice option just came to mind.
Video might be nice, but the voice recorder seems very simple to install an
d also to use after the recording is made.=C2- I really only want perform
ance data and I can "Talk to myself" with the intercom to record things lik
e stall speeds and other critical airspeed data.=C2- Video would make a b
etter recording to share with others, but I really want to find a nice way
to record data without using a pencil and paper.=C2- I just don't have en
ough hands to fly and write at the same time and I don't think the trim on
this very light plane will fly it well enough so I can ignore it for the ti
me it takes to write down data.
I tried to insert a picture of my recorder in the first message and it didn
't take.=C2- I'll try one more time:
Cockpit voice<br>> recorder
Paul
Camas, WA
On 5/25/2011 3:59 PM, paulrod36@msn.com wrote:No shooting from here; it mak
es good sense.=C2- You may also want to think about a small video camera
to mount over-the-shoulder, to monitor your instruments while doing the Vx,
Vy, stall speeds and such. Could also be helpful in correlating engine tem
ps with flight regimes.=C2-Paul RWish I were that far along=C2------ Or
iginal Message -----From: Paul MulwitzTo: zenith601-list@matronics.comSent:
Wednesday, May 25, 2011 5:22 PMSubject: Zenith601-List: Poor Man's Cockpit
Voice Recorder.
While thinking about flight test on my XL I have been trying to come up wit
h a neat way to record data.=C2- The recent NTSB report on the crash in A
laska brought the idea of a cockpit voice recorder to mind.=C2- I'm sure
the ones used by the airlines are more expensive than a whole Zodiac, but I
tried to come up with a lower priced alternative.
It is a normal pocket voice recorder with a cable to plug it into the heads
et jack intended for the copilot.=C2- Since there will be no copilot unti
l phase I testing is completed this is a "Free" jack for attaching the reco
rder to the intercom.
I don't know if it will work well yet, but here it is anyway for everyone t
o take shots at . . .
Paul
XL nearing flight test
Voice Recorder
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List href="http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Zenith601-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronic
s.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co
m/c
=====================
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder. |
OK, I get it.
Same trick, different type of recorder.
Paul
On 5/25/2011 9:05 PM, Jerry wrote:
>
> You plug the the audio input of the video recorder into the copilot's
> headset jack with the intercom on.
>
> Jerry
> ---- Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net> wrote:
> > Hi Jerry,
>
> If you plug your headset into the video recorder then how do you talk
> on the radio?
>
> Paul
>
> On 5/25/2011 7:36 PM, Jerry wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> You could also use the same arrangement with a video recorder. Just
>> plug the headset into the mic input on the recorder or do as someone
>> else suggested place a small mic in your headset.
>>
>> I used a video recorder and found it to be super useful. I made
>> suction cup mounting device from a dent puller from Harbor Freight. I
>> found the plans on the Internet was able to bring the video home and
>> refly the entire flight while watching all instruments. Using Windows
>> Media play I was able to play the video and get super accurate times
>> for ROC data. These are much more accurate than you'll get with a
>> stop watch in the airplane.
>>
>> My 2cents
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> 601HDS, 912, 94 hours, first conditional completed.
>>
>>
>> ---- Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net> wrote:
>> > Hi Paul,
>>
>> I considered some kind of video recording device as well as the voice
>> option. Actually the voice option just came to mind.
>>
>> Video might be nice, but the voice recorder seems very simple to
>> install and also to use after the recording is made. I really only
>> want performance data and I can "Talk to myself" with the intercom to
>> record things like stall speeds and other critical airspeed data.
>> Video would make a better recording to share with others, but I
>> really want to find a nice way to record data without using a pencil
>> and paper. I just don't have enough hands to fly and write at the
>> same time and I don't think the trim on this very light plane will
>> fly it well enough so I can ignore it for the time it takes to write
>> down data.
>>
>> I tried to insert a picture of my recorder in the first message and
>> it didn't take. I'll try one more time:
>>
>> Cockpit voice<br>> recorder
>>
>> Paul
>> Camas, WA
>>
>> On 5/25/2011 3:59 PM, paulrod36@msn.com wrote:
>>
>>> No shooting from here; it makes good sense. You may also want to
>>> think about a small video camera to mount over-the-shoulder, to
>>> monitor your instruments while doing the Vx, Vy, stall speeds and
>>> such. Could also be helpful in correlating engine temps with flight
>>> regimes.
>>> Paul R
>>> Wish I were that far along
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Paul Mulwitz </do/mail/message/mailto?to=psm%40att.net>
>>> *To:* zenith601-list@matronics.com
>>> </do/mail/message/mailto?to=zenith601-list%40matronics.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2011 5:22 PM
>>> *Subject:* Zenith601-List: Poor Man's Cockpit Voice Recorder.
>>>
>>> While thinking about flight test on my XL I have been trying to
>>> come up with a neat way to record data. The recent NTSB report
>>> on the crash in Alaska brought the idea of a cockpit voice
>>> recorder to mind. I'm sure the ones used by the airlines are
>>> more expensive than a whole Zodiac, but I tried to come up with
>>> a lower priced alternative.
>>>
>>> It is a normal pocket voice recorder with a cable to plug it
>>> into the headset jack intended for the copilot. Since there
>>> will be no copilot until phase I testing is completed this is a
>>> "Free" jack for attaching the recorder to the intercom.
>>>
>>> I don't know if it will work well yet, but here it is anyway for
>>> everyone to take shots at . . .
>>>
>>> Paul
>>> XL nearing flight test
>>>
>>> Voice Recorder
>>>
>>> *title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>>>
>>
> List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-Listhttp-->
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> *
>
>
> *
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