Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:00 AM - Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Mark Hubelbank)
2. 07:39 AM - Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Paul Mulwitz)
3. 08:14 AM - Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Mark Hubelbank)
4. 08:29 AM - Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Paul Mulwitz)
5. 09:29 AM - Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Mark Hubelbank)
6. 11:54 AM - Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Paul Mulwitz)
7. 12:49 PM - Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Don Honabach)
8. 02:02 PM - Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Paul Mulwitz)
9. 02:12 PM - Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Don Honabach)
10. 05:55 PM - Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Dave Austin)
11. 06:06 PM - Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 06:07 PM - Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Paul Mulwitz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Paul,
I have almost exactly the same configuration. Empty mine is 749 lb
and the cg is at 287 mm (but with no RC servos it is hard to fly that
way). With full fuel (30 gal) and one pilot (160 lb) it is 1089 lb and
338 mm but then allowing for the empty fuel condition, the empty fuel CG
becomes 369 mm. Thus with a real pilot, I can never hit the forward CG
limit. I have always tried to keep the CG as far forward as possible to
allow some baggage capacity.
Note, I have the battery forward of the firewall and do not use the
Jabiru duel throttle arrangement, I have joined both throttle cables at
the TBI-40 carb.
On 07/05/2011 8:16 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
> My Zodiac is nearing inspection. It should happen before OSH but that
> is in doubt. It is incredibly difficult to find someone to do the
> inspection but I think I have solved that puzzle.
>
> I did weight and balance today. My plane, N773PM, has a Jabiru
> engine, center stick, dual brakes, dual throttles, wing lockers, nav
> lights, strobes, no landing/taxi light. The instrument panel features
> dual Dynons, SL-30, Aera 500, LRI, and transponder. Empty weight is
> 753.5 with CG at 311 aft of datum line (station 1790 on both wing
> leading edges). My test flight calculated W & B with 24 gallons fuel
> and no baggage is 1117.5 pounds and CG at 372 aft of datum.
>
> Yes, I know . . . my passenger and baggage allowance calls for
> someone really small . . . Maybe I should consider getting one leg
> amputated, but then how would I apply rudders?
>
> Do these numbers sound reasonable to those of you who have actual
> experience with flying XL's?
>
> Paul
> Camas, WA
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the information.
I started with the dual throttle design in the Jabiru-USA FWF kit and
redesigned it. I didn't like the way their design felt. My change was
to move the torque tube into the cabin and face the arms downward while
lengthening them. I also put the throttle controls and the carb heat
control on the cabin side rather than on the instrument panel. This
keeps all the throttle cables at about the same height as the
carburetor. My arms are not long enough to sit back in the seat and
rest my hand on the throttle. I am pleased with the smooth operation of
my modified throttles.
It looks like I will get my plane inspected on Thursday. The only issue
is the fact the DAR is not on the MIDO list of DARs. I guess time will
tell if this works or not.
Paul
On 7/6/2011 5:56 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>
> Paul,
> I have almost exactly the same configuration. Empty mine is 749 lb
> and the cg is at 287 mm (but with no RC servos it is hard to fly that
> way). With full fuel (30 gal) and one pilot (160 lb) it is 1089 lb and
> 338 mm but then allowing for the empty fuel condition, the empty fuel
> CG becomes 369 mm. Thus with a real pilot, I can never hit the forward
> CG limit. I have always tried to keep the CG as far forward as
> possible to allow some baggage capacity.
>
> Note, I have the battery forward of the firewall and do not use
> the Jabiru duel throttle arrangement, I have joined both throttle
> cables at the TBI-40 carb.
>
> On 07/05/2011 8:16 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>>
>> My Zodiac is nearing inspection. It should happen before OSH but
>> that is in doubt. It is incredibly difficult to find someone to do
>> the inspection but I think I have solved that puzzle.
>>
>> I did weight and balance today. My plane, N773PM, has a Jabiru
>> engine, center stick, dual brakes, dual throttles, wing lockers, nav
>> lights, strobes, no landing/taxi light. The instrument panel
>> features dual Dynons, SL-30, Aera 500, LRI, and transponder. Empty
>> weight is 753.5 with CG at 311 aft of datum line (station 1790 on
>> both wing leading edges). My test flight calculated W & B with 24
>> gallons fuel and no baggage is 1117.5 pounds and CG at 372 aft of datum.
>>
>> Yes, I know . . . my passenger and baggage allowance calls for
>> someone really small . . . Maybe I should consider getting one leg
>> amputated, but then how would I apply rudders?
>>
>> Do these numbers sound reasonable to those of you who have actual
>> experience with flying XL's?
>>
>> Paul
>> Camas, WA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Paul,
Best of luck on the inspection. It should be a very straight
forward process. The advantage of using the same airframe and engine
others have. Let us know when you are ready to test it.
On 07/06/2011 10:36 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> Thanks for the information.
>
> I started with the dual throttle design in the Jabiru-USA FWF kit and
> redesigned it. I didn't like the way their design felt. My change
> was to move the torque tube into the cabin and face the arms downward
> while lengthening them. I also put the throttle controls and the
> carb heat control on the cabin side rather than on the instrument
> panel. This keeps all the throttle cables at about the same height as
> the carburetor. My arms are not long enough to sit back in the seat
> and rest my hand on the throttle. I am pleased with the smooth
> operation of my modified throttles.
>
> It looks like I will get my plane inspected on Thursday. The only
> issue is the fact the DAR is not on the MIDO list of DARs. I guess
> time will tell if this works or not.
>
> Paul
>
> On 7/6/2011 5:56 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>>
>> Paul,
>> I have almost exactly the same configuration. Empty mine is 749
>> lb and the cg is at 287 mm (but with no RC servos it is hard to fly
>> that way). With full fuel (30 gal) and one pilot (160 lb) it is 1089
>> lb and 338 mm but then allowing for the empty fuel condition, the
>> empty fuel CG becomes 369 mm. Thus with a real pilot, I can never hit
>> the forward CG limit. I have always tried to keep the CG as far
>> forward as possible to allow some baggage capacity.
>>
>> Note, I have the battery forward of the firewall and do not use
>> the Jabiru duel throttle arrangement, I have joined both throttle
>> cables at the TBI-40 carb.
>>
>> On 07/05/2011 8:16 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>>>
>>> My Zodiac is nearing inspection. It should happen before OSH but
>>> that is in doubt. It is incredibly difficult to find someone to do
>>> the inspection but I think I have solved that puzzle.
>>>
>>> I did weight and balance today. My plane, N773PM, has a Jabiru
>>> engine, center stick, dual brakes, dual throttles, wing lockers, nav
>>> lights, strobes, no landing/taxi light. The instrument panel
>>> features dual Dynons, SL-30, Aera 500, LRI, and transponder. Empty
>>> weight is 753.5 with CG at 311 aft of datum line (station 1790 on
>>> both wing leading edges). My test flight calculated W & B with 24
>>> gallons fuel and no baggage is 1117.5 pounds and CG at 372 aft of
>>> datum.
>>>
>>> Yes, I know . . . my passenger and baggage allowance calls for
>>> someone really small . . . Maybe I should consider getting one leg
>>> amputated, but then how would I apply rudders?
>>>
>>> Do these numbers sound reasonable to those of you who have actual
>>> experience with flying XL's?
>>>
>>> Paul
>>> Camas, WA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Hi Mark,
I've been doing taxi testing for about a week now. Several little
problems have come up. The most alarming was a leak in the hose
connecting the oil cooler to the engine. That is fixed now but I still
need one more test run to make sure I got rid of the last little drip
between the filter and engine fitting. Other problems include a
vibration in the instrument panel that has temporarily been fixed with a
folded piece of cardboard jammed between the panel and the center
console. I also needed to add some spray lubricant to the plastic block
on the nose gear column to make the steering more smooth.
I'll try to report actual flight testing as it happens. On the first
flight I really want to learn what engine RPM is needed for level flight
at 70 KIAS with no flaps. This should be my standard pattern entry
configuration. I plan to use full flaps - which in my case is around 20
degrees - for both takeoff and landing. The plane is sufficiently
overpowered that 20 degrees flaps on takeoff should only serve to make
the ground run very short.
Paul
On 7/6/2011 8:11 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>
> Paul,
> Best of luck on the inspection. It should be a very straight
> forward process. The advantage of using the same airframe and engine
> others have. Let us know when you are ready to test it.
>
> On 07/06/2011 10:36 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> Thanks for the information.
>>
>> I started with the dual throttle design in the Jabiru-USA FWF kit and
>> redesigned it. I didn't like the way their design felt. My change
>> was to move the torque tube into the cabin and face the arms downward
>> while lengthening them. I also put the throttle controls and the
>> carb heat control on the cabin side rather than on the instrument
>> panel. This keeps all the throttle cables at about the same height as
>> the carburetor. My arms are not long enough to sit back in the seat
>> and rest my hand on the throttle. I am pleased with the smooth
>> operation of my modified throttles.
>>
>> It looks like I will get my plane inspected on Thursday. The only
>> issue is the fact the DAR is not on the MIDO list of DARs. I guess
>> time will tell if this works or not.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 7/6/2011 5:56 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>>>
>>> Paul,
>>> I have almost exactly the same configuration. Empty mine is 749
>>> lb and the cg is at 287 mm (but with no RC servos it is hard to fly
>>> that way). With full fuel (30 gal) and one pilot (160 lb) it is 1089
>>> lb and 338 mm but then allowing for the empty fuel condition, the
>>> empty fuel CG becomes 369 mm. Thus with a real pilot, I can never
>>> hit the forward CG limit. I have always tried to keep the CG as far
>>> forward as possible to allow some baggage capacity.
>>>
>>> Note, I have the battery forward of the firewall and do not use
>>> the Jabiru duel throttle arrangement, I have joined both throttle
>>> cables at the TBI-40 carb.
>>>
>>> On 07/05/2011 8:16 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My Zodiac is nearing inspection. It should happen before OSH but
>>>> that is in doubt. It is incredibly difficult to find someone to do
>>>> the inspection but I think I have solved that puzzle.
>>>>
>>>> I did weight and balance today. My plane, N773PM, has a Jabiru
>>>> engine, center stick, dual brakes, dual throttles, wing lockers,
>>>> nav lights, strobes, no landing/taxi light. The instrument panel
>>>> features dual Dynons, SL-30, Aera 500, LRI, and transponder. Empty
>>>> weight is 753.5 with CG at 311 aft of datum line (station 1790 on
>>>> both wing leading edges). My test flight calculated W & B with 24
>>>> gallons fuel and no baggage is 1117.5 pounds and CG at 372 aft of
>>>> datum.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I know . . . my passenger and baggage allowance calls for
>>>> someone really small . . . Maybe I should consider getting one leg
>>>> amputated, but then how would I apply rudders?
>>>>
>>>> Do these numbers sound reasonable to those of you who have actual
>>>> experience with flying XL's?
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>> Camas, WA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Paul,
Understood,
Have you been following all the issues with the oil cooler hose on
the jabiruengines forum? The -6 hoses and fittings as supplied by jabiru
are marginal, At some point you will probably want to replace them all
and the oil adapter plate. I went over kill and did -10 but -8 is
probably adequate.
While I am not a professional test pilot, if you have enough runway
(3000 feet??) , I would suggest using no flaps on the first takeoff and
landings. Flaps on the 601 causes a strong nose down tendency and you
can run out of trim. Keep it simple.
At full flaps, the climb rate is lower, you are being exposed for a
longer time to the period where one can not return to the runway if
there is a engine problem. Speaking of engine problems, be prepaired to
reduce throttle slightly if at full throttle climb, the engine starts to
run rough, the Bing carb is noted for doing funny things.
I would also suggest some wheel off taxi tests. Just enough speed
to get the wheels up then let it back down. Just in case there some
strange problem in the control linkage, being 1 foot from the runway can
save a lot.
Just note that on my first flight, I encountered an aerilon trim
problem, it only showed near stall - on landing.
On 07/06/2011 11:27 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> I've been doing taxi testing for about a week now. Several little
> problems have come up. The most alarming was a leak in the hose
> connecting the oil cooler to the engine. That is fixed now but I
> still need one more test run to make sure I got rid of the last little
> drip between the filter and engine fitting. Other problems include a
> vibration in the instrument panel that has temporarily been fixed with
> a folded piece of cardboard jammed between the panel and the center
> console. I also needed to add some spray lubricant to the plastic
> block on the nose gear column to make the steering more smooth.
>
> I'll try to report actual flight testing as it happens. On the first
> flight I really want to learn what engine RPM is needed for level
> flight at 70 KIAS with no flaps. This should be my standard pattern
> entry configuration. I plan to use full flaps - which in my case is
> around 20 degrees - for both takeoff and landing. The plane is
> sufficiently overpowered that 20 degrees flaps on takeoff should only
> serve to make the ground run very short.
>
> Paul
>
> On 7/6/2011 8:11 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>>
>> Paul,
>> Best of luck on the inspection. It should be a very straight
>> forward process. The advantage of using the same airframe and engine
>> others have. Let us know when you are ready to test it.
>>
>> On 07/06/2011 10:36 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mark,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the information.
>>>
>>> I started with the dual throttle design in the Jabiru-USA FWF kit
>>> and redesigned it. I didn't like the way their design felt. My
>>> change was to move the torque tube into the cabin and face the arms
>>> downward while lengthening them. I also put the throttle controls
>>> and the carb heat control on the cabin side rather than on the
>>> instrument panel. This keeps all the throttle cables at about the
>>> same height as the carburetor. My arms are not long enough to sit
>>> back in the seat and rest my hand on the throttle. I am pleased
>>> with the smooth operation of my modified throttles.
>>>
>>> It looks like I will get my plane inspected on Thursday. The only
>>> issue is the fact the DAR is not on the MIDO list of DARs. I guess
>>> time will tell if this works or not.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> On 7/6/2011 5:56 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>>>> <mhubel@nemon.com>
>>>>
>>>> Paul,
>>>> I have almost exactly the same configuration. Empty mine is 749
>>>> lb and the cg is at 287 mm (but with no RC servos it is hard to fly
>>>> that way). With full fuel (30 gal) and one pilot (160 lb) it is
>>>> 1089 lb and 338 mm but then allowing for the empty fuel condition,
>>>> the empty fuel CG becomes 369 mm. Thus with a real pilot, I can
>>>> never hit the forward CG limit. I have always tried to keep the CG
>>>> as far forward as possible to allow some baggage capacity.
>>>>
>>>> Note, I have the battery forward of the firewall and do not use
>>>> the Jabiru duel throttle arrangement, I have joined both throttle
>>>> cables at the TBI-40 carb.
>>>>
>>>> On 07/05/2011 8:16 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> My Zodiac is nearing inspection. It should happen before OSH but
>>>>> that is in doubt. It is incredibly difficult to find someone to
>>>>> do the inspection but I think I have solved that puzzle.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did weight and balance today. My plane, N773PM, has a Jabiru
>>>>> engine, center stick, dual brakes, dual throttles, wing lockers,
>>>>> nav lights, strobes, no landing/taxi light. The instrument panel
>>>>> features dual Dynons, SL-30, Aera 500, LRI, and transponder.
>>>>> Empty weight is 753.5 with CG at 311 aft of datum line (station
>>>>> 1790 on both wing leading edges). My test flight calculated W & B
>>>>> with 24 gallons fuel and no baggage is 1117.5 pounds and CG at 372
>>>>> aft of datum.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I know . . . my passenger and baggage allowance calls for
>>>>> someone really small . . . Maybe I should consider getting one
>>>>> leg amputated, but then how would I apply rudders?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do these numbers sound reasonable to those of you who have actual
>>>>> experience with flying XL's?
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> Camas, WA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Hi Mark,
No I've not been following Jabiru issues. I didn't even know there was
a list for that subject. My hose problem was certainly caused by a poor
job on my part assembling the hose. I also had leaks through the
threads on one of the fittings due to poor loctite application and, to a
lesser degree, the fact I had turned the fitting in its threads when
fooling around with the leaky hose fitting.
What is the cause or impact of the hose size on the oil cooler fittings?
The field I use is quite short for a public paved runway. It is Grove
Field (1W1). I think the total runway is 2400 feet and there are very
tall trees a few hundred yards from the normal departure end of the
runway. I have been flying a Tecnam Echo Super that always requires
flaps on takeoff. It still uses only a few hundred feet ground roll and
climbs like a banshee. I have also spent a lot of time flying C-182s
which won't get off the ground without flaps. I guess my preference is
to use at least 1/2 flaps for takeoff. I don't have a good way to
measure how much flaps I have except for the stops at none and max so I
was thinking full flaps would be a good choice.
I have no intention of returning to the runway if I lose the engine at
low altitude. I might try to do that if I have achieved significantly
more than pattern altitude. That would happen with the Tecnam long
before I finished turning cross-wind. The Jabiru powered Zodiac has
similar wing loading to the Tecnam and 30 percent more power. I am
expecting exhilarating climb performance.
One trick I learned many years ago from my favorite instructor is to
leave the engine settings alone until reaching at least 500 AGL. It
turns out nearly all engine problems happen when changing the power setting.
I appreciate the comments about trim. That is one area I can only
discover on the first flight.
I don't understand why the engine would run rough on full throttle. The
hint to reduce power sounds like a real gem. Before my first flight I
plan to follow the advice of one of the guys on my field. He is in the
habit of ferrying old planes around the country and tries a pretend
pattern flight with the brakes set and the wheels chocked. This means
running full throttle for a minute or two followed by cruise power,
power reduction for approach and increasing power again for a go around
simulation. His experience is around 1 in 10 planes that have been
sitting around for a few years show bad behavior with this test.
Thanks again,
Paul
On 7/6/2011 9:26 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
> Paul,
> Understood,
> Have you been following all the issues with the oil cooler hose on
> the jabiruengines forum? The -6 hoses and fittings as supplied by
> jabiru are marginal, At some point you will probably want to replace
> them all and the oil adapter plate. I went over kill and did -10 but
> -8 is probably adequate.
> While I am not a professional test pilot, if you have enough
> runway (3000 feet??) , I would suggest using no flaps on the first
> takeoff and landings. Flaps on the 601 causes a strong nose down
> tendency and you can run out of trim. Keep it simple.
> At full flaps, the climb rate is lower, you are being exposed for
> a longer time to the period where one can not return to the runway if
> there is a engine problem. Speaking of engine problems, be prepaired
> to reduce throttle slightly if at full throttle climb, the engine
> starts to run rough, the Bing carb is noted for doing funny things.
> I would also suggest some wheel off taxi tests. Just enough speed
> to get the wheels up then let it back down. Just in case there some
> strange problem in the control linkage, being 1 foot from the runway
> can save a lot.
> Just note that on my first flight, I encountered an aerilon trim
> problem, it only showed near stall - on landing.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Finally getting close to certification. |
>> I don't understand why the engine would run rough on full throttle
The Jabiru/Bing Carb is sensitive to intake air turbulence and/or heavily biased
air going into the carb. In 601HDS installs at least, the intake elbow is tight
and at WOT you'll get air turbulence and/or biased air through the carb and
ultimately to the cylinders which will cause a roughness that tends to only
occur at WOT as the fuel mixture becomes un-balanced at this point.
Most folks fix this by installing an internal divider into the carb intake elbow.
Some solve it by rotating the carb a bit, and some do both or just get lucky.
In the end, it is just a good thing to know it exists and if you encounter it,
just pull back the throttle a bit and you the engine should go back to 'purrrring
mode' and then you can tinker with it on the ground and ultimately find a
way of improving the air intake path.
Hope this helps -- good luck on your first flight.
Thanks,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Finally getting close to certification.
Hi Mark,
No I've not been following Jabiru issues. I didn't even know there was a list
for that subject. My hose problem was certainly caused by a poor job on my part
assembling the hose. I also had leaks through the threads on one of the fittings
due to poor loctite application and, to a lesser degree, the fact I had
turned the fitting in its threads when fooling around with the leaky hose fitting.
What is the cause or impact of the hose size on the oil cooler fittings?
The field I use is quite short for a public paved runway. It is Grove
Field (1W1). I think the total runway is 2400 feet and there are very
tall trees a few hundred yards from the normal departure end of the runway. I
have been flying a Tecnam Echo Super that always requires flaps on takeoff. It
still uses only a few hundred feet ground roll and climbs like a banshee. I
have also spent a lot of time flying C-182s which won't get off the ground without
flaps. I guess my preference is to use at least 1/2 flaps for takeoff.
I don't have a good way to measure how much flaps I have except for the stops
at none and max so I was thinking full flaps would be a good choice.
I have no intention of returning to the runway if I lose the engine at low altitude.
I might try to do that if I have achieved significantly more than pattern
altitude. That would happen with the Tecnam long before I finished turning
cross-wind. The Jabiru powered Zodiac has similar wing loading to the Tecnam
and 30 percent more power. I am expecting exhilarating climb performance.
One trick I learned many years ago from my favorite instructor is to leave the
engine settings alone until reaching at least 500 AGL. It turns out nearly all
engine problems happen when changing the power setting.
I appreciate the comments about trim. That is one area I can only discover on
the first flight.
I don't understand why the engine would run rough on full throttle. The hint to
reduce power sounds like a real gem. Before my first flight I plan to follow
the advice of one of the guys on my field. He is in the habit of ferrying old
planes around the country and tries a pretend pattern flight with the brakes
set and the wheels chocked. This means running full throttle for a minute or
two followed by cruise power, power reduction for approach and increasing power
again for a go around simulation. His experience is around 1 in 10 planes
that have been sitting around for a few years show bad behavior with this test.
Thanks again,
Paul
On 7/6/2011 9:26 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
> Paul,
> Understood,
> Have you been following all the issues with the oil cooler hose on
> the jabiruengines forum? The -6 hoses and fittings as supplied by
> jabiru are marginal, At some point you will probably want to replace
> them all and the oil adapter plate. I went over kill and did -10 but
> -8 is probably adequate.
> While I am not a professional test pilot, if you have enough
> runway (3000 feet??) , I would suggest using no flaps on the first
> takeoff and landings. Flaps on the 601 causes a strong nose down
> tendency and you can run out of trim. Keep it simple.
> At full flaps, the climb rate is lower, you are being exposed for
> a longer time to the period where one can not return to the runway if
> there is a engine problem. Speaking of engine problems, be prepaired
> to reduce throttle slightly if at full throttle climb, the engine
> starts to run rough, the Bing carb is noted for doing funny things.
> I would also suggest some wheel off taxi tests. Just enough speed
> to get the wheels up then let it back down. Just in case there some
> strange problem in the control linkage, being 1 foot from the runway
> can save a lot.
> Just note that on my first flight, I encountered an aerilon trim
> problem, it only showed near stall - on landing.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Hi Don,
Thanks for the info.
I spoke to Pete Krotje about this issue at Sun n Fun (Tornadoes n Mud?)
earlier this year. He suggested replacing the SCAT tube with a rubber
right angle and gave me the source for these parts. I did that. I
suppose that means I am immune from this problem. Right? (Ha Ha)
I am looking forward to my first flight about as much as I might look
forward to having a root canal. I really expect it to go well, but all
these years of wondering about the integrity of the XL have not yet worn
off. Perhaps I will feel much better after I get it in the air and
grease a few landings.
Paul
On 7/6/2011 12:48 PM, Don Honabach wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Don Honabach<don.honabach@pcperfect.com>
>
>>> I don't understand why the engine would run rough on full throttle
> The Jabiru/Bing Carb is sensitive to intake air turbulence and/or heavily biased
air going into the carb. In 601HDS installs at least, the intake elbow is
tight and at WOT you'll get air turbulence and/or biased air through the carb
and ultimately to the cylinders which will cause a roughness that tends to only
occur at WOT as the fuel mixture becomes un-balanced at this point.
>
> Most folks fix this by installing an internal divider into the carb intake elbow.
Some solve it by rotating the carb a bit, and some do both or just get lucky.
>
> In the end, it is just a good thing to know it exists and if you encounter it,
just pull back the throttle a bit and you the engine should go back to 'purrrring
mode' and then you can tinker with it on the ground and ultimately find
a way of improving the air intake path.
>
> Hope this helps -- good luck on your first flight.
>
> Thanks,
> Don
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:51 AM
> To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Finally getting close to certification.
>
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz<psm@att.net>
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> No I've not been following Jabiru issues. I didn't even know there was a list
for that subject. My hose problem was certainly caused by a poor job on my
part assembling the hose. I also had leaks through the threads on one of the
fittings due to poor loctite application and, to a lesser degree, the fact I had
turned the fitting in its threads when fooling around with the leaky hose fitting.
>
> What is the cause or impact of the hose size on the oil cooler fittings?
>
> The field I use is quite short for a public paved runway. It is Grove
> Field (1W1). I think the total runway is 2400 feet and there are very
> tall trees a few hundred yards from the normal departure end of the runway.
I have been flying a Tecnam Echo Super that always requires flaps on takeoff.
It still uses only a few hundred feet ground roll and climbs like a banshee.
I have also spent a lot of time flying C-182s which won't get off the ground
without flaps. I guess my preference is to use at least 1/2 flaps for takeoff.
I don't have a good way to measure how much flaps I have except for the stops
at none and max so I was thinking full flaps would be a good choice.
>
> I have no intention of returning to the runway if I lose the engine at low altitude.
I might try to do that if I have achieved significantly more than pattern
altitude. That would happen with the Tecnam long before I finished turning
cross-wind. The Jabiru powered Zodiac has similar wing loading to the Tecnam
and 30 percent more power. I am expecting exhilarating climb performance.
>
> One trick I learned many years ago from my favorite instructor is to leave the
engine settings alone until reaching at least 500 AGL. It turns out nearly
all engine problems happen when changing the power setting.
>
> I appreciate the comments about trim. That is one area I can only discover on
the first flight.
>
> I don't understand why the engine would run rough on full throttle. The hint
to reduce power sounds like a real gem. Before my first flight I plan to follow
the advice of one of the guys on my field. He is in the habit of ferrying
old planes around the country and tries a pretend pattern flight with the brakes
set and the wheels chocked. This means running full throttle for a minute
or two followed by cruise power, power reduction for approach and increasing
power again for a go around simulation. His experience is around 1 in 10 planes
that have been sitting around for a few years show bad behavior with this test.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Paul
>
> On 7/6/2011 9:26 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>> Paul,
>> Understood,
>> Have you been following all the issues with the oil cooler hose on
>> the jabiruengines forum? The -6 hoses and fittings as supplied by
>> jabiru are marginal, At some point you will probably want to replace
>> them all and the oil adapter plate. I went over kill and did -10 but
>> -8 is probably adequate.
>> While I am not a professional test pilot, if you have enough
>> runway (3000 feet??) , I would suggest using no flaps on the first
>> takeoff and landings. Flaps on the 601 causes a strong nose down
>> tendency and you can run out of trim. Keep it simple.
>> At full flaps, the climb rate is lower, you are being exposed for
>> a longer time to the period where one can not return to the runway if
>> there is a engine problem. Speaking of engine problems, be prepaired
>> to reduce throttle slightly if at full throttle climb, the engine
>> starts to run rough, the Bing carb is noted for doing funny things.
>> I would also suggest some wheel off taxi tests. Just enough speed
>> to get the wheels up then let it back down. Just in case there some
>> strange problem in the control linkage, being 1 foot from the runway
>> can save a lot.
>> Just note that on my first flight, I encountered an aerilon trim
>> problem, it only showed near stall - on landing.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Finally getting close to certification. |
Hey Paul,
FWIW, for me, I had the issue with both parts (SCAT and rubber part he is talking
about).
Thanks,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Finally getting close to certification.
Hi Don,
Thanks for the info.
I spoke to Pete Krotje about this issue at Sun n Fun (Tornadoes n Mud?) earlier
this year. He suggested replacing the SCAT tube with a rubber right angle and
gave me the source for these parts. I did that. I suppose that means I am
immune from this problem. Right? (Ha Ha)
I am looking forward to my first flight about as much as I might look forward to
having a root canal. I really expect it to go well, but all these years of
wondering about the integrity of the XL have not yet worn off. Perhaps I will
feel much better after I get it in the air and grease a few landings.
Paul
On 7/6/2011 12:48 PM, Don Honabach wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Don
> --> Honabach<don.honabach@pcperfect.com>
>
>>> I don't understand why the engine would run rough on full throttle
> The Jabiru/Bing Carb is sensitive to intake air turbulence and/or heavily biased
air going into the carb. In 601HDS installs at least, the intake elbow is
tight and at WOT you'll get air turbulence and/or biased air through the carb
and ultimately to the cylinders which will cause a roughness that tends to only
occur at WOT as the fuel mixture becomes un-balanced at this point.
>
> Most folks fix this by installing an internal divider into the carb intake elbow.
Some solve it by rotating the carb a bit, and some do both or just get lucky.
>
> In the end, it is just a good thing to know it exists and if you encounter it,
just pull back the throttle a bit and you the engine should go back to 'purrrring
mode' and then you can tinker with it on the ground and ultimately find
a way of improving the air intake path.
>
> Hope this helps -- good luck on your first flight.
>
> Thanks,
> Don
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
> Mulwitz
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:51 AM
> To: zenith601-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Finally getting close to certification.
>
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz<psm@att.net>
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> No I've not been following Jabiru issues. I didn't even know there was a list
for that subject. My hose problem was certainly caused by a poor job on my
part assembling the hose. I also had leaks through the threads on one of the
fittings due to poor loctite application and, to a lesser degree, the fact I had
turned the fitting in its threads when fooling around with the leaky hose fitting.
>
> What is the cause or impact of the hose size on the oil cooler fittings?
>
> The field I use is quite short for a public paved runway. It is Grove
> Field (1W1). I think the total runway is 2400 feet and there are very
> tall trees a few hundred yards from the normal departure end of the runway.
I have been flying a Tecnam Echo Super that always requires flaps on takeoff.
It still uses only a few hundred feet ground roll and climbs like a banshee.
I have also spent a lot of time flying C-182s which won't get off the ground
without flaps. I guess my preference is to use at least 1/2 flaps for takeoff.
I don't have a good way to measure how much flaps I have except for the stops
at none and max so I was thinking full flaps would be a good choice.
>
> I have no intention of returning to the runway if I lose the engine at low altitude.
I might try to do that if I have achieved significantly more than pattern
altitude. That would happen with the Tecnam long before I finished turning
cross-wind. The Jabiru powered Zodiac has similar wing loading to the Tecnam
and 30 percent more power. I am expecting exhilarating climb performance.
>
> One trick I learned many years ago from my favorite instructor is to leave the
engine settings alone until reaching at least 500 AGL. It turns out nearly
all engine problems happen when changing the power setting.
>
> I appreciate the comments about trim. That is one area I can only discover on
the first flight.
>
> I don't understand why the engine would run rough on full throttle. The hint
to reduce power sounds like a real gem. Before my first flight I plan to follow
the advice of one of the guys on my field. He is in the habit of ferrying
old planes around the country and tries a pretend pattern flight with the brakes
set and the wheels chocked. This means running full throttle for a minute
or two followed by cruise power, power reduction for approach and increasing
power again for a go around simulation. His experience is around 1 in 10 planes
that have been sitting around for a few years show bad behavior with this test.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Paul
>
> On 7/6/2011 9:26 AM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>> Paul,
>> Understood,
>> Have you been following all the issues with the oil cooler hose
>> on the jabiruengines forum? The -6 hoses and fittings as supplied by
>> jabiru are marginal, At some point you will probably want to replace
>> them all and the oil adapter plate. I went over kill and did -10 but
>> -8 is probably adequate.
>> While I am not a professional test pilot, if you have enough
>> runway (3000 feet??) , I would suggest using no flaps on the first
>> takeoff and landings. Flaps on the 601 causes a strong nose down
>> tendency and you can run out of trim. Keep it simple.
>> At full flaps, the climb rate is lower, you are being exposed
>> for a longer time to the period where one can not return to the
>> runway if there is a engine problem. Speaking of engine problems, be
>> prepaired to reduce throttle slightly if at full throttle climb, the
>> engine starts to run rough, the Bing carb is noted for doing funny things.
>> I would also suggest some wheel off taxi tests. Just enough
>> speed to get the wheels up then let it back down. Just in case there
>> some strange problem in the control linkage, being 1 foot from the
>> runway can save a lot.
>> Just note that on my first flight, I encountered an aerilon trim
>> problem, it only showed near stall - on landing.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Paul,
Get in the cockpit and fly the bloody thing..
Dave Austin
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Thanks, Dave.
I'm just waiting for an airworthiness certificate right now. With luck
I will have that by tomorrow night. Then it is just a matter of finding
some nice weather.
Believe it or not I already have liability insurance with no checkout
required. I didn't think I could find such a thing, but I asked and the
guys at Regal found it for me. I could have gotten hull insurance too,
but the price was very high and $1000 less if I had 10 hours in type. I
figure I will have a lot more than that in a couple of months.
Paul
On 7/6/2011 5:52 PM, Dave Austin wrote:
> Paul,
> Get in the cockpit and fly the bloody thing..
> Dave Austin
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Thanks, Don.
I had heard there was a problem with the carb input hose, but I had not
heard how it shows up. I don't think I would have guessed it appears at
full throttle and goes away if you back off a little.
I really appreciate the advice all of the list members are giving me.
Paul
On 7/6/2011 2:12 PM, Don Honabach wrote:
> Hey Paul,
>
> FWIW, for me, I had the issue with both parts (SCAT and rubber part he is talking
about).
>
> Thanks,
> Don
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