Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:17 AM - Re: Finally getting close to certification. (DaveG601XL)
2. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Paul Mulwitz)
3. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Don Honabach)
4. 02:53 PM - Viking Engine (Thomas Blejwas)
5. 02:53 PM - Viking Engine (Thomas Blejwas)
6. 04:03 PM - Re: Viking Engine (Mark Hubelbank)
7. 05:20 PM - Re: Re: Finally getting close to certification. (Paul Mulwitz)
8. 05:22 PM - Re: Viking Engine (Paul Mulwitz)
9. 05:35 PM - Re: [Probable Spam] Re: Viking Engine (Larry McFarland)
10. 07:07 PM - Re: Viking Engine (Mark Hubelbank)
11. 09:06 PM - Re: Viking Engine (Paul Mulwitz)
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Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Paul,
Congratulations on getting your certification. I hope your first flight is as
enjoyable as mine was. I will only add one caution about the responsive pitch
control and how I personally witnessed a fellow 601XL builder almost conclude
his first flight quite prematurely. When the elevator comes in trail, at around
35 MPH or so, pull the stick back another 1-2 inches and hold it there. Upon
rotation, hold it there like a rock and don't move it until your are a good
100" above the ground. This other pilot popped the stick back at rotation speed,
was a bit surprised at the fast pitch rate and pushed back down, slamming
on the runway, pulled back again, and this time remained airborne. I have the
video and it still scares me to watch it today.
Now don't let me scare you. You will surely learn and get used to the pitch response
quickly during your phase 1 flight testing. The first rotation is not
the place you want to be surprised.
Now to 2nd Mr. Austin's remarks, get in the cockpit and fly the bloody thing..
Dave
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Upgraded 3/19/10
160+ hours and climbing!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345450#345450
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Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the advice. It sounds very good but I'm afraid I just don't
fly the way you described.
My style of flying is to use the controls to get the attitude I want
without paying any attention at all to how much force or movement I
experience on the controls. I think I can translate your excellent
advice to my style of flying by saying I should raise the nose for
take-off (rotate) and hold it in that position. That is the way I
normally fly any plane. The only difference is the visual image I get
from one plane to another. Some take off without any pitch change while
others raise the nose a "couple of fingers".
I spent a few hours this morning replacing all the inspection panels and
other stuff that was removed for the inspection. I still need to do
another round of taxi testing including using the other fuel tank,
running the engine up to full power and holding it there for a couple of
minutes (if it doesn't get too hot), checking carb heat and doing a
magneto check. After all that I need to clean out the gascolator. Then
it is really time for me to find nice weather and do the first flight.
I really appreciate all the comments I have been getting from list
members and also pilots at my field. I'm sure all will go well. It is
not a big surprise that I am a little bit nervous over all this. I
would be more worried if I wasn't.
Paul
Camas, WA
On 7/8/2011 9:12 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Congratulations on getting your certification. I hope your first flight is as
enjoyable as mine was. I will only add one caution about the responsive pitch
control and how I personally witnessed a fellow 601XL builder almost conclude
his first flight quite prematurely. When the elevator comes in trail, at around
35 MPH or so, pull the stick back another 1-2 inches and hold it there.
Upon rotation, hold it there like a rock and don't move it until your are a good
100" above the ground. This other pilot popped the stick back at rotation
speed, was a bit surprised at the fast pitch rate and pushed back down, slamming
on the runway, pulled back again, and this time remained airborne. I have
the video and it still scares me to watch it today.
>
> Now don't let me scare you. You will surely learn and get used to the pitch
response quickly during your phase 1 flight testing. The first rotation is not
the place you want to be surprised.
>
> Now to 2nd Mr. Austin's remarks, get in the cockpit and fly the bloody thing..
>
> Dave
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL/Jabiru 3300
> First flight 7/24/08
> Upgraded 3/19/10
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Paul,
Just my two cents ...
One of the things that surprised me on my first flight was how the plane went from
'stuck to the ground' to what at the time seemed like an extremely high nose
angle and aggressive climb rate. So high that I worried about stalling the
plane on take off, and pushed down a bit too much, and then had to correct my
over correction. I never hit the ground or anything like that, just didn't fully
appreciate how sensitive the controls are (at least on my 601HDS). Took literally
a few seconds to 'get that', and then I was fine.
For what it is worth, now I love the fact that I can climb so quickly and the plane
handles it great, but on first flight and still a pilot in Cessna mode, it
took me by surprise.
Congratulations! You are now part of a very small and elite club ;-) (...of people
who are foolish enough to build their own plane, think they'd save any real
money, and then are crazy enough to fly it - LOL!).
Thanks,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Finally getting close to certification.
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the advice. It sounds very good but I'm afraid I just don't fly the
way you described.
My style of flying is to use the controls to get the attitude I want without paying
any attention at all to how much force or movement I experience on the controls.
I think I can translate your excellent advice to my style of flying by
saying I should raise the nose for take-off (rotate) and hold it in that position.
That is the way I normally fly any plane. The only difference is the
visual image I get from one plane to another. Some take off without any pitch
change while others raise the nose a "couple of fingers".
I spent a few hours this morning replacing all the inspection panels and other
stuff that was removed for the inspection. I still need to do another round of
taxi testing including using the other fuel tank, running the engine up to full
power and holding it there for a couple of minutes (if it doesn't get too
hot), checking carb heat and doing a magneto check. After all that I need to
clean out the gascolator. Then it is really time for me to find nice weather
and do the first flight.
I really appreciate all the comments I have been getting from list members and
also pilots at my field. I'm sure all will go well. It is not a big surprise
that I am a little bit nervous over all this. I would be more worried if I wasn't.
Paul
Camas, WA
On 7/8/2011 9:12 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Congratulations on getting your certification. I hope your first flight is as
enjoyable as mine was. I will only add one caution about the responsive pitch
control and how I personally witnessed a fellow 601XL builder almost conclude
his first flight quite prematurely. When the elevator comes in trail, at around
35 MPH or so, pull the stick back another 1-2 inches and hold it there.
Upon rotation, hold it there like a rock and don't move it until your are a good
100" above the ground. This other pilot popped the stick back at rotation
speed, was a bit surprised at the fast pitch rate and pushed back down, slamming
on the runway, pulled back again, and this time remained airborne. I have
the video and it still scares me to watch it today.
>
> Now don't let me scare you. You will surely learn and get used to the pitch
response quickly during your phase 1 flight testing. The first rotation is not
the place you want to be surprised.
>
> Now to 2nd Mr. Austin's remarks, get in the cockpit and fly the bloody thing..
>
> Dave
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL/Jabiru 3300
> First flight 7/24/08
> Upgraded 3/19/10
Message 4
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I-have ordered a-Viking Engine, which is a Honda Fit conversion.- Any
one using =0Athis engine?- I've watched the installation video and I'm im
pressed with the =0Acompleteness of the conversion.- Jan Eggenfellner has
included some installation =0Ahardware, like a machined holder for the dua
l fuel pumps, which I find an =0Aimprovement over what I've seen for UL ins
tallations.- I'd really like to hear =0Aof any first-hand experience with
the engine.- I'll be glad to share my =0Aexperiences with individuals in
terested in a dialogue-after my December =0Adelivery.=0A=0ATom Blejwas=0A
12 Via Entrada=0ASandia Park, NM 87047-9686=0Atomblejwas@yahoo.com=0A
Message 5
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I-have ordered a-Viking Engine, which is a Honda Fit conversion.- Any
one using =0Athis engine?- I've watched the installation video and I'm im
pressed with the =0Acompleteness of the conversion.- Jan Eggenfellner has
included some installation =0Ahardware, like a machined holder for the dua
l fuel pumps, which I find an =0Aimprovement over what I've seen for UL ins
tallations.- I'd really like to hear =0Aof any first-hand experience with
the engine.- I'll be glad to share my =0Aexperiences with individuals in
terested in a dialogue-after my December =0Adelivery.=0A=0ATom Blejwas=0A
12 Via Entrada=0ASandia Park, NM 87047-9686=0Atomblejwas@yahoo.com=0A
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Viking Engine |
Tom,
If this is a 601XL you are planning to put it in, I was going back
and forth with Viking on the engine mount and resulting W&B. It sounded
to me like the default engine mount would position the engine too far
aft and result in a CG that was a bit too far aft. Other than that, I
am seriously considering swapping my Jabiru 3300 sometime in the next year.
On 07/08/2011 5:50 PM, Thomas Blejwas wrote:
> I have ordered a Viking Engine, which is a Honda Fit conversion.
> Anyone using this engine? I've watched the installation video and I'm
> impressed with the completeness of the conversion. Jan Eggenfellner
> has included some installation hardware, like a machined holder for
> the dual fuel pumps, which I find an improvement over what I've seen
> for UL installations. I'd really like to hear of any first-hand
> experience with the engine. I'll be glad to share my experiences with
> individuals interested in a dialogue after my December delivery.
> Tom Blejwas
> 12 Via Entrada
> Sandia Park, NM 87047-9686
> tomblejwas@yahoo.com <mailto:tomblejwas@yahoo.com>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Finally getting close to certification. |
Hi Don,
Thanks for the message. I got a good little snicker out of it.
In fact, I didn't build my plane with the idea of saving money. I just
really like building stuff. I am a retired engineer, and it is that
"Building stuff" view of the world that made me an engineer in the first
place. I don't miss having one of those really annoying bosses and I am
fortunate in the financial arena, but I really need to build stuff to
keep my sanity. (My wife also wants me to be building something all the
time. She is afraid if I don't have a hobby like that she will become
my hobby.)
I do feel a sense of accomplishment getting my airworthiness
certificate. It has been a long hard battle that started over 6 years
ago. I never had a completion schedule but I thought it would be more
like one year than six. One of the points that confused me (and lots of
others, I suspect) is the build time estimates all the kit builders
advertise. What they don't tell you is when you complete the project
ZAC said takes 500 hours you don't have an airplane to fly away. You
have a stripped down airframe. You still need a power plant,
instruments, upholstery, etc., etc. The airframe might be a big part of
the project but there is still a great deal to do when the airframe is
completed.
I am looking forward to the first flight. It might have been tomorrow
morning, but I wound up having a long nap after lunch today instead of
finishing up my ground testing requirements. The first flight will
happen soon -- I just don't know when.
Fortunately, I am not a pilot in Cessna mode. I would be very
disappointed indeed if my plane behaves like a Spam Can. I have been
flying a high-end LSA for a couple of years. I have also had a couple of
short flights in other people's XLs including doing one takeoff and
landing from the right seat. I had a little trouble on that flight but I
think that was because my seat was too low for me to see the engine cowl
and I had no flight instruments on my side of the panel. That was a
couple of years ago before I grounded mine and took it apart. Still, I
don't expect any surprises on my first flight. Of course, that assumes
nothing breaks or fails to work.
Thanks again,
Paul
On 7/8/2011 2:40 PM, Don Honabach wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Just my two cents ...
>
> One of the things that surprised me on my first flight was how the plane went
from 'stuck to the ground' to what at the time seemed like an extremely high
nose angle and aggressive climb rate. So high that I worried about stalling the
plane on take off, and pushed down a bit too much, and then had to correct
my over correction. I never hit the ground or anything like that, just didn't
fully appreciate how sensitive the controls are (at least on my 601HDS). Took
literally a few seconds to 'get that', and then I was fine.
>
> For what it is worth, now I love the fact that I can climb so quickly and the
plane handles it great, but on first flight and still a pilot in Cessna mode,
it took me by surprise.
>
> Congratulations! You are now part of a very small and elite club;-) (...of
people who are foolish enough to build their own plane, think they'd save any
real money, and then are crazy enough to fly it - LOL!).
>
> Thanks,
> Don
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Viking Engine |
Hi Mark,
I was surprised to hear you want to trade your Jabiru aircraft engine
for an auto conversion. Have you been having problems with the Jabiru?
Paul
On 7/8/2011 4:00 PM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
> Tom,
> If this is a 601XL you are planning to put it in, I was going back
> and forth with Viking on the engine mount and resulting W&B. It
> sounded to me like the default engine mount would position the engine
> too far aft and result in a CG that was a bit too far aft. Other than
> that, I am seriously considering swapping my Jabiru 3300 sometime in
> the next year.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Viking Engine |
Tom,
This engine was shown at 2010 Sun n Fun. The specs suggested perhaps the
engine would have to run a little higher rpm
than most re-drives because of the peak HP curve. I had a Honda Fit for 2
years and loved the cars performance.
Not so much muscle, but it didn't mind the high rpms, was extremely reliable
and well made. The attached picture shows
this displayed Viking engine in a 601HDS.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Hubelbank
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:00 PM
Subject: [Probable Spam] Re: Zenith601-List: Viking Engine
Tom,
If this is a 601XL you are planning to put it in, I was going back and
forth with Viking on the engine mount and resulting W&B. It sounded to me
like the default engine mount would position the engine too far aft and
result in a CG that was a bit too far aft. Other than that, I am seriously
considering swapping my Jabiru 3300 sometime in the next year.
On 07/08/2011 5:50 PM, Thomas Blejwas wrote:
I have ordered a Viking Engine, which is a Honda Fit conversion. Anyone
using this engine? I've watched the installation video and I'm impressed
with the completeness of the conversion. Jan Eggenfellner has included some
installation hardware, like a machined holder for the dual fuel pumps, which
I find an improvement over what I've seen for UL installations. I'd really
like to hear of any first-hand experience with the engine. I'll be glad to
share my experiences with individuals interested in a dialogue after my
December delivery.
Tom Blejwas
12 Via Entrada
Sandia Park, NM 87047-9686
tomblejwas@yahoo.com
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Viking Engine |
Paul,
I have a long list. There are many Jabiru engines that are happly
flying but there seems to be a certain element of hit and miss. The
engines are quite intollarent of being overheated. That is not good for
any engine but the Jabiru heads are especially sensitive. In the same
area, the Jabiru supplied oil cooler may not be sufficient. If your
engine is quite new, it may not be affected by the through bolt service
bulletin. Other things like noisy ignition and wimpy alternators, one
can work around. Some are happy with the Bing carbs. I found it to be
unacceptable but that can be replaced as well.
It is the head design and through bolt issue that is getting to me
to look at a design that a real professional team engineered. My thought
is that an engine that can take the beating of outboard motor service is
probably well designed. The fisherman I see go to near full throttle for
an hour or so to get to their spot. stop, (no letting it cool off) and
then do the same thing on the way back. I must say my use of an outboard
was probably worse, I used one for ski towing so it was effectively at
full throttle all the time. About the nastiest thing one can do to an
engine, yet they expect their engines to last a long time and apparently
they generally do.
That said, you should look to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/ and look at all the history
to get an ideal of how to best care for the Jabiru engine. It can be
used quite well if you are careful with it.
On 07/08/2011 8:19 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> I was surprised to hear you want to trade your Jabiru aircraft engine
> for an auto conversion. Have you been having problems with the Jabiru?
>
> Paul
>
> On 7/8/2011 4:00 PM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>> Tom,
>> If this is a 601XL you are planning to put it in, I was going
>> back and forth with Viking on the engine mount and resulting W&B. It
>> sounded to me like the default engine mount would position the engine
>> too far aft and result in a CG that was a bit too far aft. Other
>> than that, I am seriously considering swapping my Jabiru 3300
>> sometime in the next year.
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
Message 11
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|
Subject: | Re: Viking Engine |
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the information. I guess I have been living in a dream
world. Up until very recently I had heard about nothing but satisfied
owners of Jabiru engines.
I guess it makes sense that you shouldn't overheat an engine. The
outboard motors are probably water cooled, so overheating is not a real
issue. Air cooled engines are a different matter. The Jabiru 3300
generates a lot of power in a very small space. I guess it is not a big
surprise that heat and overheating are real issues.
Thanks for the link to the Yahoo group. I just signed up.
Good luck,
Paul
On 7/8/2011 7:04 PM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>
> Paul,
> I have a long list. There are many Jabiru engines that are happly
> flying but there seems to be a certain element of hit and miss. The
> engines are quite intollarent of being overheated. That is not good
> for any engine but the Jabiru heads are especially sensitive. In the
> same area, the Jabiru supplied oil cooler may not be sufficient. If
> your engine is quite new, it may not be affected by the through bolt
> service bulletin. Other things like noisy ignition and wimpy
> alternators, one can work around. Some are happy with the Bing carbs.
> I found it to be unacceptable but that can be replaced as well.
> It is the head design and through bolt issue that is getting to me
> to look at a design that a real professional team engineered. My
> thought is that an engine that can take the beating of outboard motor
> service is probably well designed. The fisherman I see go to near full
> throttle for an hour or so to get to their spot. stop, (no letting it
> cool off) and then do the same thing on the way back. I must say my
> use of an outboard was probably worse, I used one for ski towing so it
> was effectively at full throttle all the time. About the nastiest
> thing one can do to an engine, yet they expect their engines to last a
> long time and apparently they generally do.
> That said, you should look to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/ and look at all the
> history to get an ideal of how to best care for the Jabiru engine. It
> can be used quite well if you are careful with it.
>
>
> On 07/08/2011 8:19 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> I was surprised to hear you want to trade your Jabiru aircraft engine
>> for an auto conversion. Have you been having problems with the Jabiru?
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 7/8/2011 4:00 PM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>>> Tom,
>>> If this is a 601XL you are planning to put it in, I was going
>>> back and forth with Viking on the engine mount and resulting W&B. It
>>> sounded to me like the default engine mount would position the
>>> engine too far aft and result in a CG that was a bit too far aft.
>>> Other than that, I am seriously considering swapping my Jabiru 3300
>>> sometime in the next year.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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