Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:13 AM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Bryan Martin)
2. 03:17 AM - Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 (Bob Emery)
3. 03:37 AM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 03:57 AM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 (Paul Mulwitz)
5. 05:28 AM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Jay Bannister)
6. 07:13 AM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Paul Mulwitz)
7. 07:48 AM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Jay Bannister)
8. 08:08 AM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Paul Mulwitz)
9. 08:26 AM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Jay Bannister)
10. 09:23 AM - on a lighter note... (Sabrina)
11. 10:31 AM - Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 (DaveG601XL)
12. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 (Paul Mulwitz)
13. 01:24 PM - bungee cord tool (fritz)
14. 02:15 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 (NYTerminat@aol.com)
15. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 (Paul Mulwitz)
16. 02:41 PM - Re: bungee cord tool (Paul Mulwitz)
17. 02:57 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 (NYTerminat@aol.com)
18. 03:09 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 (Paul Mulwitz)
19. 03:27 PM - Re: bungee cord tool (fritz)
20. 03:39 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 (Brad Rawls)
21. 03:58 PM - Re: bungee cord tool (Jay Bannister)
22. 04:10 PM - Re: bungee cord tool (Paul Mulwitz)
23. 04:10 PM - Re: bungee cord tool (davcoberly@wmconnect.com)
24. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 (NYTerminat@aol.com)
25. 04:12 PM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 (Paul Mulwitz)
26. 04:15 PM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (JohnDRead@aol.com)
27. 05:17 PM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Jay Bannister)
28. 06:20 PM - Re: bungee cord tool (Bryan Martin)
29. 06:41 PM - Re: bungee cord tool-install only (fritz)
30. 07:27 PM - Re: bungee cord tool-install only (Michel Therrien)
31. 07:43 PM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Bryan Martin)
32. 08:00 PM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Paul Mulwitz)
33. 08:36 PM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Ronald Steele)
34. 09:07 PM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Paul Mulwitz)
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM |
Did you set the rudder cable tension with no weight on the nose-wheel? The rudder
cable tension will decrease with any deflection of the strut due to weight
on the wheel because of the angle of the strut. Too much tension will make it
harder to self center in flight.
On Sep 20, 2011, at 3:50 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> 3. Rudder does not return to center when you remove pressure from the pedals.
This problem is unresolved. It doesn't present too much of a problem but it
is difficult to keep the ball centered unless you give the left rudder pedal
a good kick after maneuvering.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 |
Good work Paul.
I have had similar experiences in my Zodiac (Jab 3300). Now all of 15 hrs
old, but going OK with issues.
1 Cooling. I had best results installing a splitter in the air intake
scat tubing before the Bing carb.
Also by enlarging and putting a lip (45 degrees) of the lower cowl air exit
area. (as per the new Jabiru planes) and as Eddie Seve did here at Cessnock.
My temps similar to yours.
2 Rudder not centering. My neighbor fixed his by experimenting with
cable tensions (increase/decrease), but this can be dangerous. I also
lubricated the nose wheel bearing surface, seemed to help, but I agree you
need to continually monitor the ball, more than you should need to.
I have a Sensenich ground adjustable prop, which I am still playing with. I
would like to get the prop balanced when I settle on a pitch, but can't get
it done around here.
3 Radio Still fiddling, but I think a dodgy aerial connector crimp
was to blame. I have a MicroAir radio.
I fitted a fuel flow meter today, and flew it after, works great (feeds into
the Dynon)
I flew in a Zenith 601 to Naromine (3 hrs) with my neighbor Phil Hale on the
weekend (SAAA fly-in) saw a few Zodiacs and got some ideas.
Keep up the articles, I will give a more complete picture of my journey
once registered (about a month I hope)
Bob Emery Cessnock NSW (probably flying to WA mid next year- moving back)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Zenith601-List Digest Server
Sent: Wednesday, 21 September 2011 4:59 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Zenith601-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Zenith601-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
11-09-20&Archive=Zenith601
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2011-09-20&Archive=Zenith601
===============================================
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----------------------------------------------------------
Zenith601-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Tue 09/20/11: 2
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:53 PM - Flight Test Update - N776PM (Paul Mulwitz)
2. 07:17 PM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Michel Therrien)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 12:53:57 PM PST US
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Flight Test Update - N776PM
It's been a little over two months since my Zodiac XL got its
airworthiness certificate. Yesterday I had my first flight with no
squawks. I figured it is time to spread the word on the things I
found. Current flight time is around 17 hours. My typical test flight
was just over one half hour with just one landing. This might have been
a bit shorter if I didn't have to get out from under a class C terminal
area before climbing to a reasonable test altitude.
Yesterday the air was reasonably cool - around 60 on the ground so it
must have been around 45 at 5000 MSL where I did my testing. At full
throttle the engine ran smoothly and the plane indicated around 120
knots. I have not calibrated the airspeed yet, but casual comparison
with GPS ground speed suggests it is pretty close to correct. I have a
Jabiru 3300A with wood Sensenich 64ZK49 propeller (standard stuff when
you buy the FWF package from Pete at USA Jabiru). Cylinder head
temperatures were all green with the highest around 320. Oil
temperature was around 170. At WOT engine RPM was just over 3000 RPM at
5000 MSL. CHTs in full throttle climb were around 1100 and in high
cruise around 1300.
I am sure I can't remember all the problems I fixed in the first two
months of phase I flight test, but I'll try to recount as many as I can.
1. Engine cooling was a big problem. My first attempt at adding rubber
seals at the front of the cooing ducts was not correct. I should have
fitted the rubber seals carefully to the inlets in the cowl. I also
needed to adjust the air dams in the right duct (cylinders 1,3,5) but
the other one never needed any adjustment.
2. Nose gear bearings were too tight. The plastic bearings at both the
top and bottom of the nose gear column restricted movement instead of
just guiding it. The nose should move up and down easily when you put
your weight on the propeller drive shaft. The plastic bearings as
delivered from ZAC were much too tight. I loosened them on original
installation but that wasn't enough.
3. Rudder does not return to center when you remove pressure from the
pedals. This problem is unresolved. It doesn't present too much of a
problem but it is difficult to keep the ball centered unless you give
the left rudder pedal a good kick after maneuvering. A related
unresolved problem is the nose tends to wander in yaw - especially in
turbulence. I am thinking nice thoughts of adding some sort of fixed
vertical stabilizer fin - probably on the bottom of the fuselage to
correct this. It is not a big problem but makes flying a bit uncomfortable.
4. I had a few electronic problems with my Dynon and Garmin avionics.
The Dynon tachometer needed to have a resistor installed in line with
the connection to the alternator (through a fuse). Before adding the
resistor the tachometer went nuts in mid range power settings but worked
fine above 2200 RPM and below 1700.
The only problem with the Garmin stuff was I needed to attach a pin to
ground to enable the built-in intercom on my SL-30. I also had issues
setting the squelch, but that was just an operator issue.
5. Several times I had the quick drains in the fuel tanks turn into
slow leaks. This was caused by tiny pieces of aluminum getting caught
in the tiny O-ring that seals the quick drain. I got an extra quick
drain valve and learned how to replace a faulty one with a pail under
the stream of fuel to collect that fuel that escapes between the time I
remove one and install the other one. Then it is a relatively simple
task to clean out the defective seal and put it aside for the next
occurrence of this problem.
6. At one point I discovered the carburetor was barely attached to the
engine. It was held in place by the air intake hose but this was still
a bit scary. It was easy to loosen both hose clamps that hold the
carburetor and push it firmly in place before tightening the clamps again.
7. Another carburetor problem -- the small hose connecting the
carburetor to the air box came off. This caused the engine to drop out
randomly with RPM dropping about 500 revs in turbulence when I reduced
power for descent. The engine ran more smoothly when I added power to
cruise levels. The original hose had a 3/16 ID and was quite loose on
the carburetor nipple. I got some vinyl hose with .170 ID at the
hardware store and it holds on and works just fine.
8. Elevator trim was not powerful enough to trim pitch when any flaps
were employed. I added an extra fixed tab to the rear of the original
one and found improvement but I was still unable to get neutral trim
with full flaps. A bigger tab fixed this. I think the final extra tab
was around 20 square inches to neutralize 20 degrees of flaps.
9. I had a lot of trouble getting the rudder into a neutral position in
flight. The nose gear centers when there is no weight on the gear and
the connections through the pedals and rudder cables pulls the rudder
one way or the other until you get this properly adjusted. This took me
many small changes. At one point I didn't like the number of exposed
threads in one of the turnbuckles and learned you can get forks that are
about a half inch longer than the normal ones to give you more
adjustment room. I only needed one of these extra length forks to allow
more "Left" rudder in the cable setup. (I am getting really good at
installing safety wire in turnbuckles.)
In all my experience at being a test pilot for an amateur (me) built
aircraft has been quite an experience. The only time I felt at all
scared was when the engine was cutting out. Mostly it has been a matter
of getting all the little adjustments made to make the plane fly
properly. Now, I am looking forward to spending some time in the
pattern learning how to do really nice approaches and landings.
Paul
Camas, WA
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 07:17:11 PM PST US
From: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Flight Test Update - N776PM
Thanks for sharing Paul. Now you should start to really enjoy your toy.
Do not archive
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 20, 2011, at 15:50, Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net> wrote:
>
> It's been a little over two months since my Zodiac XL got its
airworthiness certificate.
Yesterday I had my first flight with no squawks. I figured it is
time to spread the word on the things I found. Current flight time is
around
17 hours. My typical test flight was just over one half hour with just one
landing.
This might have been a bit shorter if I didn't have to get out from under
a class C terminal area before climbing to a reasonable test altitude.
>
> Yesterday the air was reasonably cool - around 60 on the ground so it must
have
been around 45 at 5000 MSL where I did my testing. At full throttle the
engine
ran smoothly and the plane indicated around 120 knots. I have not
calibrated
the airspeed yet, but casual comparison with GPS ground speed suggests it
is pretty close to correct. I have a Jabiru 3300A with wood Sensenich
64ZK49
propeller (standard stuff when you buy the FWF package from Pete at USA
Jabiru).
Cylinder head temperatures were all green with the highest around 320. Oil
temperature was around 170. At WOT engine RPM was just over 3000 RPM at
5000
MSL. CHTs in full throttle climb were around 1100 and in high cruise around
1300.
>
> I am sure I can't remember all the problems I fixed in the first two
months of
phase I flight test, but I'll try to recount as many as I can.
>
> 1. Engine cooling was a big problem. My first attempt at adding rubber
seals
at the front of the cooing ducts was not correct. I should have fitted the
rubber seals carefully to the inlets in the cowl. I also needed to adjust
the
air dams in the right duct (cylinders 1,3,5) but the other one never needed
any
adjustment.
>
> 2. Nose gear bearings were too tight. The plastic bearings at both the
top
and bottom of the nose gear column restricted movement instead of just
guiding
it. The nose should move up and down easily when you put your weight on the
propeller drive shaft. The plastic bearings as delivered from ZAC were much
too
tight. I loosened them on original installation but that wasn't enough.
>
> 3. Rudder does not return to center when you remove pressure from the
pedals.
This problem is unresolved. It doesn't present too much of a problem but it
is difficult to keep the ball centered unless you give the left rudder pedal
a good kick after maneuvering. A related unresolved problem is the nose
tends
to wander in yaw - especially in turbulence. I am thinking nice thoughts of
adding some sort of fixed vertical stabilizer fin - probably on the bottom
of
the fuselage to correct this. It is not a big problem but makes flying a
bit
uncomfortable.
>
> 4. I had a few electronic problems with my Dynon and Garmin avionics.
The Dynon
tachometer needed to have a resistor installed in line with the connection
to the alternator (through a fuse). Before adding the resistor the
tachometer
went nuts in mid range power settings but worked fine above 2200 RPM and
below
1700.
>
> The only problem with the Garmin stuff was I needed to attach a pin to
ground
to enable the built-in intercom on my SL-30. I also had issues setting the
squelch,
but that was just an operator issue.
>
> 5. Several times I had the quick drains in the fuel tanks turn into slow
leaks.
This was caused by tiny pieces of aluminum getting caught in the tiny O-ring
that seals the quick drain. I got an extra quick drain valve and learned
how to replace a faulty one with a pail under the stream of fuel to collect
that
fuel that escapes between the time I remove one and install the other one.
Then it is a relatively simple task to clean out the defective seal and put
it
aside for the next occurrence of this problem.
>
> 6. At one point I discovered the carburetor was barely attached to the
engine.
It was held in place by the air intake hose but this was still a bit scary.
It was easy to loosen both hose clamps that hold the carburetor and push it
firmly in place before tightening the clamps again.
>
> 7. Another carburetor problem -- the small hose connecting the carburetor
to
the air box came off. This caused the engine to drop out randomly with RPM
dropping
about 500 revs in turbulence when I reduced power for descent. The engine
ran more smoothly when I added power to cruise levels. The original hose
had a 3/16 ID and was quite loose on the carburetor nipple. I got some
vinyl
hose with .170 ID at the hardware store and it holds on and works just fine.
>
> 8. Elevator trim was not powerful enough to trim pitch when any flaps
were employed.
I added an extra fixed tab to the rear of the original one and found
improvement but I was still unable to get neutral trim with full flaps. A
bigger
tab fixed this. I think the final extra tab was around 20 square inches
to neutralize 20 degrees of flaps.
>
> 9. I had a lot of trouble getting the rudder into a neutral position in
flight.
The nose gear centers when there is no weight on the gear and the
connections
through the pedals and rudder cables pulls the rudder one way or the other
until you get this properly adjusted. This took me many small changes. At
one point I didn't like the number of exposed threads in one of the
turnbuckles
and learned you can get forks that are about a half inch longer than the
normal
ones to give you more adjustment room. I only needed one of these extra
length forks to allow more "Left" rudder in the cable setup. (I am getting
really
good at installing safety wire in turnbuckles.)
>
> In all my experience at being a test pilot for an amateur (me) built
aircraft
has been quite an experience. The only time I felt at all scared was when
the
engine was cutting out. Mostly it has been a matter of getting all the
little
adjustments made to make the plane fly properly. Now, I am looking forward
to spending some time in the pattern learning how to do really nice
approaches
and landings.
>
> Paul
> Camas, WA
>
>
>
>
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
16:34:00
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM |
Hi Brian,
The nose strut is fully extended when the plane is sitting normally.
This should center the nose wheel, but in my plane it doesn't do that.
I don't know exactly why. Also, in flight the nose wheel doesn't center
very well. It does rest on the "V" shape in the lower bearing block,
but the rotation of the column seems somewhat random. If I kick the
left pedal it moves left and stays there. Similarly, if I kick the
right pedal it stays rotated a bit to the right.
I spoke with an engineer from ZAC about this when I was at OSH. He
suggested reducing the "V" shape and making it more flat. This is
supposed to make it easier to rotate the nose gear while loaded by the
huge bungee.
I don't think there is any relationship between the strut position and
rudder cable tension. Rudder cable tension works against the position
of the rudder pedals. The rudder pedals don't move when the strut goes
up and down.
I have been careful to set all the cable tensions according to the
latest requirements from ZAC. This is problematical since some of the
required information is not specified. The elevator position is
critical to the elevator cable tensions but there is no discussion of
this position in any of the documents I have seen. Fortunately, it
doesn't seem to make much difference what elevator cable tension is used.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 3:10 AM, Bryan Martin wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Bryan Martin<bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> Did you set the rudder cable tension with no weight on the nose-wheel? The rudder
cable tension will decrease with any deflection of the strut due to weight
on the wheel because of the angle of the strut. Too much tension will make it
harder to self center in flight.
>
> On Sep 20, 2011, at 3:50 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
>> 3. Rudder does not return to center when you remove pressure from the pedals.
This problem is unresolved. It doesn't present too much of a problem but
it is difficult to keep the ball centered unless you give the left rudder pedal
a good kick after maneuvering.
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 |
Hi Bob,
I'm not sure I know what you mean by installing a splitter in the air
intake tubing to the carburetor. Perhaps you did something like I did
but use a different word for the device.
I made a "Straightener" and installed it just before the main input to
the carburetor. Here is a picture:
I made and installed this part after having the engine run a bit rough
when going from high cruise to WOT. I'm not sure it actually did any
good because when I installed it I noticed the carburetor was not
properly attached to the engine. After properly attaching the
carburetor and also installing the straightener the engine ran very
smoothly all the way to WOT. I just don't know which change actually
made it work correctly. (The straightener I made is 1.5 inches deep and
2 1/4 inches diameter.)
On the rudder "Pulling" issue, I didn't change the cable tension. I
loosened one side and then adjusted the other side to get the proper
tension. The effect was to lengthen one rudder cable while shortening
the other one. This was done a turn or two at a time on the turnbuckles.
I haven't done any distance flights yet in my Zodiac. The longest
flight was a half hour to get to the airport where I had the transponder
certified. This was necessary for me to legally use the transponder
which is a great idea since my plane is based at an airport under a
class "C" terminal area. The actual distance from starting airport to
destination is only about 35 nautical miles but I couldn't go in a
straight line because of the main airport in Portland, OR being in the way.
Hopefully, I can get some longer flights in now that the "Squawk" fixing
period is mostly over. I need to hit 40 hours before signing the plane
out of phase I testing and gaining freedom to fly all over the USA. (I
am not welcome in Canada without a medical certificate, and I don't want
to go to Mexico where drug violence is out of control.)
Paul
On 9/21/2011 3:15 AM, Bob Emery wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Bob Emery"<bobemery51@gmail.com>
>
> Good work Paul.
> I have had similar experiences in my Zodiac (Jab 3300). Now all of 15 hrs
> old, but going OK with issues.
> 1 Cooling. I had best results installing a splitter in the air intake
> scat tubing before the Bing carb.
> Also by enlarging and putting a lip (45 degrees) of the lower cowl air exit
> area. (as per the new Jabiru planes) and as Eddie Seve did here at Cessnock.
> My temps similar to yours.
> 2 Rudder not centering. My neighbor fixed his by experimenting with
> cable tensions (increase/decrease), but this can be dangerous. I also
> lubricated the nose wheel bearing surface, seemed to help, but I agree you
> need to continually monitor the ball, more than you should need to.
> I have a Sensenich ground adjustable prop, which I am still playing with. I
> would like to get the prop balanced when I settle on a pitch, but can't get
> it done around here.
> 3 Radio Still fiddling, but I think a dodgy aerial connector crimp
> was to blame. I have a MicroAir radio.
> I fitted a fuel flow meter today, and flew it after, works great (feeds into
> the Dynon)
> I flew in a Zenith 601 to Naromine (3 hrs) with my neighbor Phil Hale on the
> weekend (SAAA fly-in) saw a few Zodiacs and got some ideas.
>
> Keep up the articles, I will give a more complete picture of my journey
> once registered (about a month I hope)
>
> Bob Emery Cessnock NSW (probably flying to WA mid next year- moving back)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Zenith601-List Digest Server
> Sent: Wednesday, 21 September 2011 4:59 PM
> To: Zenith601-List Digest List
> Subject: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11
>
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Zenith601-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Zenith601-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
> 11-09-20&Archive=Zenith601
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
> 2011-09-20&Archive=Zenith601
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Zenith601-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 09/20/11: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 12:53 PM - Flight Test Update - N776PM (Paul Mulwitz)
> 2. 07:17 PM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Michel Therrien)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:53:57 PM PST US
> From: Paul Mulwitz<psm@att.net>
> Subject: Zenith601-List: Flight Test Update - N776PM
>
>
> It's been a little over two months since my Zodiac XL got its
> airworthiness certificate. Yesterday I had my first flight with no
> squawks. I figured it is time to spread the word on the things I
> found. Current flight time is around 17 hours. My typical test flight
> was just over one half hour with just one landing. This might have been
> a bit shorter if I didn't have to get out from under a class C terminal
> area before climbing to a reasonable test altitude.
>
> Yesterday the air was reasonably cool - around 60 on the ground so it
> must have been around 45 at 5000 MSL where I did my testing. At full
> throttle the engine ran smoothly and the plane indicated around 120
> knots. I have not calibrated the airspeed yet, but casual comparison
> with GPS ground speed suggests it is pretty close to correct. I have a
> Jabiru 3300A with wood Sensenich 64ZK49 propeller (standard stuff when
> you buy the FWF package from Pete at USA Jabiru). Cylinder head
> temperatures were all green with the highest around 320. Oil
> temperature was around 170. At WOT engine RPM was just over 3000 RPM at
> 5000 MSL. CHTs in full throttle climb were around 1100 and in high
> cruise around 1300.
>
> I am sure I can't remember all the problems I fixed in the first two
> months of phase I flight test, but I'll try to recount as many as I can.
>
> 1. Engine cooling was a big problem. My first attempt at adding rubber
> seals at the front of the cooing ducts was not correct. I should have
> fitted the rubber seals carefully to the inlets in the cowl. I also
> needed to adjust the air dams in the right duct (cylinders 1,3,5) but
> the other one never needed any adjustment.
>
> 2. Nose gear bearings were too tight. The plastic bearings at both the
> top and bottom of the nose gear column restricted movement instead of
> just guiding it. The nose should move up and down easily when you put
> your weight on the propeller drive shaft. The plastic bearings as
> delivered from ZAC were much too tight. I loosened them on original
> installation but that wasn't enough.
>
> 3. Rudder does not return to center when you remove pressure from the
> pedals. This problem is unresolved. It doesn't present too much of a
> problem but it is difficult to keep the ball centered unless you give
> the left rudder pedal a good kick after maneuvering. A related
> unresolved problem is the nose tends to wander in yaw - especially in
> turbulence. I am thinking nice thoughts of adding some sort of fixed
> vertical stabilizer fin - probably on the bottom of the fuselage to
> correct this. It is not a big problem but makes flying a bit uncomfortable.
>
> 4. I had a few electronic problems with my Dynon and Garmin avionics.
> The Dynon tachometer needed to have a resistor installed in line with
> the connection to the alternator (through a fuse). Before adding the
> resistor the tachometer went nuts in mid range power settings but worked
> fine above 2200 RPM and below 1700.
>
> The only problem with the Garmin stuff was I needed to attach a pin to
> ground to enable the built-in intercom on my SL-30. I also had issues
> setting the squelch, but that was just an operator issue.
>
> 5. Several times I had the quick drains in the fuel tanks turn into
> slow leaks. This was caused by tiny pieces of aluminum getting caught
> in the tiny O-ring that seals the quick drain. I got an extra quick
> drain valve and learned how to replace a faulty one with a pail under
> the stream of fuel to collect that fuel that escapes between the time I
> remove one and install the other one. Then it is a relatively simple
> task to clean out the defective seal and put it aside for the next
> occurrence of this problem.
>
> 6. At one point I discovered the carburetor was barely attached to the
> engine. It was held in place by the air intake hose but this was still
> a bit scary. It was easy to loosen both hose clamps that hold the
> carburetor and push it firmly in place before tightening the clamps again.
>
> 7. Another carburetor problem -- the small hose connecting the
> carburetor to the air box came off. This caused the engine to drop out
> randomly with RPM dropping about 500 revs in turbulence when I reduced
> power for descent. The engine ran more smoothly when I added power to
> cruise levels. The original hose had a 3/16 ID and was quite loose on
> the carburetor nipple. I got some vinyl hose with .170 ID at the
> hardware store and it holds on and works just fine.
>
> 8. Elevator trim was not powerful enough to trim pitch when any flaps
> were employed. I added an extra fixed tab to the rear of the original
> one and found improvement but I was still unable to get neutral trim
> with full flaps. A bigger tab fixed this. I think the final extra tab
> was around 20 square inches to neutralize 20 degrees of flaps.
>
> 9. I had a lot of trouble getting the rudder into a neutral position in
> flight. The nose gear centers when there is no weight on the gear and
> the connections through the pedals and rudder cables pulls the rudder
> one way or the other until you get this properly adjusted. This took me
> many small changes. At one point I didn't like the number of exposed
> threads in one of the turnbuckles and learned you can get forks that are
> about a half inch longer than the normal ones to give you more
> adjustment room. I only needed one of these extra length forks to allow
> more "Left" rudder in the cable setup. (I am getting really good at
> installing safety wire in turnbuckles.)
>
> In all my experience at being a test pilot for an amateur (me) built
> aircraft has been quite an experience. The only time I felt at all
> scared was when the engine was cutting out. Mostly it has been a matter
> of getting all the little adjustments made to make the plane fly
> properly. Now, I am looking forward to spending some time in the
> pattern learning how to do really nice approaches and landings.
>
> Paul
> Camas, WA
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:17:11 PM PST US
> From: Michel Therrien<mtherr@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Flight Test Update - N776PM
>
>
> Thanks for sharing Paul. Now you should start to really enjoy your toy.
>
> Do not archive
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 20, 2011, at 15:50, Paul Mulwitz<psm@att.net> wrote:
>
>> It's been a little over two months since my Zodiac XL got its
> airworthiness certificate.
> Yesterday I had my first flight with no squawks. I figured it is
> time to spread the word on the things I found. Current flight time is
> around
> 17 hours. My typical test flight was just over one half hour with just one
> landing.
> This might have been a bit shorter if I didn't have to get out from under
> a class C terminal area before climbing to a reasonable test altitude.
>> Yesterday the air was reasonably cool - around 60 on the ground so it must
> have
> been around 45 at 5000 MSL where I did my testing. At full throttle the
> engine
> ran smoothly and the plane indicated around 120 knots. I have not
> calibrated
> the airspeed yet, but casual comparison with GPS ground speed suggests it
> is pretty close to correct. I have a Jabiru 3300A with wood Sensenich
> 64ZK49
> propeller (standard stuff when you buy the FWF package from Pete at USA
> Jabiru).
> Cylinder head temperatures were all green with the highest around 320. Oil
> temperature was around 170. At WOT engine RPM was just over 3000 RPM at
> 5000
> MSL. CHTs in full throttle climb were around 1100 and in high cruise around
> 1300.
>> I am sure I can't remember all the problems I fixed in the first two
> months of
> phase I flight test, but I'll try to recount as many as I can.
>> 1. Engine cooling was a big problem. My first attempt at adding rubber
> seals
> at the front of the cooing ducts was not correct. I should have fitted the
> rubber seals carefully to the inlets in the cowl. I also needed to adjust
> the
> air dams in the right duct (cylinders 1,3,5) but the other one never needed
> any
> adjustment.
>> 2. Nose gear bearings were too tight. The plastic bearings at both the
> top
> and bottom of the nose gear column restricted movement instead of just
> guiding
> it. The nose should move up and down easily when you put your weight on the
> propeller drive shaft. The plastic bearings as delivered from ZAC were much
> too
> tight. I loosened them on original installation but that wasn't enough.
>> 3. Rudder does not return to center when you remove pressure from the
> pedals.
> This problem is unresolved. It doesn't present too much of a problem but it
> is difficult to keep the ball centered unless you give the left rudder pedal
> a good kick after maneuvering. A related unresolved problem is the nose
> tends
> to wander in yaw - especially in turbulence. I am thinking nice thoughts of
> adding some sort of fixed vertical stabilizer fin - probably on the bottom
> of
> the fuselage to correct this. It is not a big problem but makes flying a
> bit
> uncomfortable.
>> 4. I had a few electronic problems with my Dynon and Garmin avionics.
> The Dynon
> tachometer needed to have a resistor installed in line with the connection
> to the alternator (through a fuse). Before adding the resistor the
> tachometer
> went nuts in mid range power settings but worked fine above 2200 RPM and
> below
> 1700.
>> The only problem with the Garmin stuff was I needed to attach a pin to
> ground
> to enable the built-in intercom on my SL-30. I also had issues setting the
> squelch,
> but that was just an operator issue.
>> 5. Several times I had the quick drains in the fuel tanks turn into slow
> leaks.
> This was caused by tiny pieces of aluminum getting caught in the tiny O-ring
> that seals the quick drain. I got an extra quick drain valve and learned
> how to replace a faulty one with a pail under the stream of fuel to collect
> that
> fuel that escapes between the time I remove one and install the other one.
> Then it is a relatively simple task to clean out the defective seal and put
> it
> aside for the next occurrence of this problem.
>> 6. At one point I discovered the carburetor was barely attached to the
> engine.
> It was held in place by the air intake hose but this was still a bit scary.
> It was easy to loosen both hose clamps that hold the carburetor and push it
> firmly in place before tightening the clamps again.
>> 7. Another carburetor problem -- the small hose connecting the carburetor
> to
> the air box came off. This caused the engine to drop out randomly with RPM
> dropping
> about 500 revs in turbulence when I reduced power for descent. The engine
> ran more smoothly when I added power to cruise levels. The original hose
> had a 3/16 ID and was quite loose on the carburetor nipple. I got some
> vinyl
> hose with .170 ID at the hardware store and it holds on and works just fine.
>> 8. Elevator trim was not powerful enough to trim pitch when any flaps
> were employed.
> I added an extra fixed tab to the rear of the original one and found
> improvement but I was still unable to get neutral trim with full flaps. A
> bigger
> tab fixed this. I think the final extra tab was around 20 square inches
> to neutralize 20 degrees of flaps.
>> 9. I had a lot of trouble getting the rudder into a neutral position in
> flight.
> The nose gear centers when there is no weight on the gear and the
> connections
> through the pedals and rudder cables pulls the rudder one way or the other
> until you get this properly adjusted. This took me many small changes. At
> one point I didn't like the number of exposed threads in one of the
> turnbuckles
> and learned you can get forks that are about a half inch longer than the
> normal
> ones to give you more adjustment room. I only needed one of these extra
> length forks to allow more "Left" rudder in the cable setup. (I am getting
> really
> good at installing safety wire in turnbuckles.)
>> In all my experience at being a test pilot for an amateur (me) built
> aircraft
> has been quite an experience. The only time I felt at all scared was when
> the
> engine was cutting out. Mostly it has been a matter of getting all the
> little
> adjustments made to make the plane fly properly. Now, I am looking forward
> to spending some time in the pattern learning how to do really nice
> approaches
> and landings.
>> Paul
>> Camas, WA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 16:34:00
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM |
Paul is wrong about the relationship of the nose gear strut position to the
rudder pedals. The nose gear strut position definitely does effect the ru
dder pedals. If it moves up, both pedals move rearward, loosening the rudd
er cables. The attached pdf shows the geometry.
However, it did not effect my setting of the rudder cable tension since the
bungee kept the nose gear strut on the stop without lifting the nose.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:39 am
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Flight Test Update - N776PM
Hi Brian,
I don't think there is any relationship between the strut position and
rudder cable tension. Rudder cable tension works against the position
of the rudder pedals. The rudder pedals don't move when the strut goes
up and down.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM |
Hi Jay,
Looking at your drawing, I would guess the amount of rudder pedal
movement caused by nose gear strut movement is a function of the setting
of the angle of the rudder pedals. Put differently, if the pedals are
moved toward the rear (for short legged guys like me) then the
correlated movement would be minimal. If the pedals are set forward
(for tall guys) then the movement would be more pronounced.
In any case, I agree with Bob that it is not a great idea to make things
different by reducing the rudder cable tension. I think my approach of
adjusting the relative rudder cable lengths is a better way to get
neutral rudder trim.
Paul
P.S. I had a typo in my tail number. It is N773PM.
On 9/21/2011 5:25 AM, Jay Bannister wrote:
> Paul is wrong about the relationship of the nose gear strut position
> to the rudder pedals. The nose gear strut position definitely does
> effect the rudder pedals. If it moves up, both pedals move rearward,
> loosening the rudder cables.The attached pdf shows the geometry.
>
> However, it did not effect my setting of the rudder cable tension
> since the bungee kept the nose gear strut on the stop without lifting
> the nose.
>
> Jay
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM |
Not so. The geometry remains the same.
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2011 9:15 am
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Flight Test Update - N776PM
Hi Jay,
Looking at your drawing, I would guess the amount of rudder pedal mo
vement caused by nose gear strut movement is a function of the setting o
f the angle of the rudder pedals. Put differently, if the pedals are mo
ved toward the rear (for short legged guys like me) then the correlated
movement would be minimal. If the pedals are set forward (for tall guys
) then the movement would be more pronounced.
In any case, I agree with Bob that it is not a great idea to make th
ings different by reducing the rudder cable tension. I think my approac
h of adjusting the relative rudder cable lengths is a better way to get
neutral rudder trim.
Paul
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM |
Jay,
I don't want to make a big argument over this, but I'm afraid you are
not seeing the truth.
The angle between the rudder pedals and the nose gear strut will
influence how movement in the strut will cause movement in the pedals.
Technically this is not geometry but is trigonometry. Perhaps you are
not considering that a change in angle between the pedals and strut
requires a change in length of the tie rods.
If the pedals and strut are parallel then a small movement in the strut
will not cause a noticeable movement in the pedals. As the angle
increases the connected movement increases. I'm sure there is a SIN or
COS function here somewhere but I don't have the energy to work out the
equations.
In the real world, the strut doesn't move very far at all because the
bungee is very strong. I have tried to move it on the ground and my
weight is only enough to get the strut to move an inch or so. It needs
to be free to move, but I doubt you will ever see much more than an inch
or two in the strut which might translate to a few millimeters movement
in the rudder pedals.
Respectfully,
Paul
On 9/21/2011 7:44 AM, Jay Bannister wrote:
> Not so. The geometry remains the same.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
> To: zenith601-list <zenith601-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2011 9:15 am
> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Flight Test Update - N776PM
>
> Hi Jay,
>
> Looking at your drawing, I would guess the amount of rudder pedal
> movement caused by nose gear strut movement is a function of the
> setting of the angle of the rudder pedals. Put differently, if the
> pedals are moved toward the rear (for short legged guys like me) then
> the correlated movement would be minimal. If the pedals are set
> forward (for tall guys) then the movement would be more pronounced.
>
> In any case, I agree with Bob that it is not a great idea to make
> things different by reducing the rudder cable tension. I think my
> approach of adjusting the relative rudder cable lengths is a better
> way to get neutral rudder trim.
>
> Paul**
> *
>
>
> *
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM |
Paul,
Respectfully - you are dead wrong. My graphic triggernometry is accurate
and what I am telling you is factual.
And you won't make a big argument over this because this is my last post on
the subject.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2011 10:11 am
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Flight Test Update - N776PM
Jay,
I don't want to make a big argument over this, but I'm afraid you ar
e not seeing the truth.
The angle between the rudder pedals and the nose gear strut will inf
luence how movement in the strut will cause movement in the pedals. Tec
hnically this is not geometry but is trigonometry. Perhaps you are not
considering that a change in angle between the pedals and strut require
s a change in length of the tie rods.
If the pedals and strut are parallel then a small movement in the st
rut will not cause a noticeable movement in the pedals. As the angle in
creases the connected movement increases. I'm sure there is a SIN or CO
S function here somewhere but I don't have the energy to work out the eq
uations.
In the real world, the strut doesn't move very far at all because th
e bungee is very strong. I have tried to move it on the ground and my w
eight is only enough to get the strut to move an inch or so. It needs t
o be free to move, but I doubt you will ever see much more than an inch
or two in the strut which might translate to a few millimeters movement
in the rudder pedals.
Respectfully,
Paul
Message 10
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| Subject: | on a lighter note... |
Joe,
Thank you for the photographs, attached is my favorite...
Paul and Chris are amazing.
The necklace is a solid gold model of my airplane that Amazon's Jeff Bezos had
commissioned to celebrate my airplane's maiden flight.
All,
It is great to see the list come alive again.
Miss you guys,
Sabrina
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352867#352867
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/paul_chris_sabrina_2011_190.jpg
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 |
Paul,
On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is binding things up? When
I first assembled my nose gear, the lower bearing was acting more like a shaft
clamp. I put a thin aluminum shim between the two bearing halves and got
the movement I desired. No problems with 3 years and 200 hours of flying. Yeah,
you still have to push a Zenith rudder harder than you would in a Champ to
overcome the initial "centering tendency," but I have no problems with it going
back to center.
Hope this helps,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL: flying
Next project: Pietenpol
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 |
Hi David,
Yes, I like your description of a clamp.
I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole a bit
bigger so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a side load
from the tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also have a tight
upper bearing but I don't think that has an impact on rotation. I don't
know how to remove the upper bearing without removing the bungee. I had
no problem installing and removing the bungee before the engine was
installed, but now it looks like a real bear.
I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I land with
full flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but if I do a
no-flaps landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I wish I know
enough about mechanical design to be able to figure out how to stop the
shimmy at higher speeds.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL"<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
>
> Paul,
>
> On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is binding things up?
When I first assembled my nose gear, the lower bearing was acting more like a
shaft clamp. I put a thin aluminum shim between the two bearing halves and got
the movement I desired. No problems with 3 years and 200 hours of flying.
Yeah, you still have to push a Zenith rudder harder than you would in a Champ
to overcome the initial "centering tendency," but I have no problems with it
going back to center.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL: flying
> Next project: Pietenpol
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | bungee cord tool |
try a "8"(?) hinge handle with a 3" extension with a little "duct tape" and
you a have a great bungee cord installer----- stick the 3" extension into
the tube which goes through the nose strut.
Fritz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11
>
> Hi David,
>
> Yes, I like your description of a clamp.
>
> I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole a bit bigger
> so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a side load from the
> tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also have a tight upper
> bearing but I don't think that has an impact on rotation. I don't know
> how to remove the upper bearing without removing the bungee. I had no
> problem installing and removing the bungee before the engine was
> installed, but now it looks like a real bear.
>
> I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I land with full
> flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but if I do a no-flaps
> landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I wish I know enough
> about mechanical design to be able to figure out how to stop the shimmy at
> higher speeds.
>
> Paul
>
> On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by:
>> "DaveG601XL"<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is binding things
>> up? When I first assembled my nose gear, the lower bearing was acting
>> more like a shaft clamp. I put a thin aluminum shim between the two
>> bearing halves and got the movement I desired. No problems with 3 years
>> and 200 hours of flying. Yeah, you still have to push a Zenith rudder
>> harder than you would in a Champ to overcome the initial "centering
>> tendency," but I have no problems with it going back to center.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> --------
>> David Gallagher
>> 601 XL: flying
>> Next project: Pietenpol
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 |
Paul, did you check the balance of the front tire and rim?
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 9/21/2011 3:14:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
psm@att.net writes:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
Hi David,
Yes, I like your description of a clamp.
I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole a bit
bigger so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a side load
from the tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also have a tight
upper bearing but I don't think that has an impact on rotation. I don't
know how to remove the upper bearing without removing the bungee. I had
no problem installing and removing the bungee before the engine was
installed, but now it looks like a real bear.
I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I land with
full flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but if I do a
no-flaps landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I wish I know
enough about mechanical design to be able to figure out how to stop the
shimmy at higher speeds.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by:
"DaveG601XL"<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
>
> Paul,
>
> On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is binding things
up? When I first assembled my nose gear, the lower bearing was acting
more like a shaft clamp. I put a thin aluminum shim between the two bearing
halves and got the movement I desired. No problems with 3 years and 200
hours of flying. Yeah, you still have to push a Zenith rudder harder than you
would in a Champ to overcome the initial "centering tendency," but I have
no problems with it going back to center.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL: flying
> Next project: Pietenpol
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 |
Hi Bob,
No, I didn't check the balance of the nose wheel.
What I did do was make the mistake of thinking if I kept a low tire
pressure it would cushion the nose and give me softer touch-down bumps.
Unfortunately, the Matco wheel doesn't hold the tire and tube very well
without a reasonably high pressure in the tire. The result was the tire
and tube rotated in the wheel and turned the metal valve stem into a
pretzel. I replaced the tube assembly with one I had laying around the
shop and didn't consider the balancing issue.
I suppose the nose gear vibrations could be a wheel balance issue, but I
can really feel the side to side motion in the rudder pedals when the
gear touches down at relatively high speed. My guess is the direct
linkage between the pedals and the strut really need some sort of shock
absorber or damper in the connection someplace.
I also guess the source of the vibration is a slight misalignment
between the nose wheel and runway at touchdown. There doesn't seem to
be any feature in this design that straightens out the wheel when it is
a little out of alignment. The last plane I flew (a Tecnam Echo Super)
had a trailing link design in the nose gear that naturally wants to go
straight.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 2:12 PM, NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
> Paul, did you check the balance of the front tire and rim?
> Bob Spudis
> In a message dated 9/21/2011 3:14:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> psm@att.net writes:
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> Yes, I like your description of a clamp.
>
> I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole a bit
> bigger so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a side
> load
> from the tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also have a
> tight
> upper bearing but I don't think that has an impact on rotation. I
> don't
> know how to remove the upper bearing without removing the bungee.
> I had
> no problem installing and removing the bungee before the engine was
> installed, but now it looks like a real bear.
>
> I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I land with
> full flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but if I do a
> no-flaps landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I wish
> I know
> enough about mechanical design to be able to figure out how to
> stop the
> shimmy at higher speeds.
>
> Paul
>
> On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
> > --> Zenith601-List message posted by:
> "DaveG601XL"<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is
> binding things up? When I first assembled my nose gear, the lower
> bearing was acting more like a shaft clamp. I put a thin aluminum
> shim between the two bearing halves and got the movement I
> desired. No problems with 3 years and 200 hours of flying. Yeah,
> you still have to push a Zenith rudder harder than you would in a
> Champ to overcome the initial "centering tendency," but I have no
> problems with it going back to center.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > --------
> > David Gallagher
> > 601 XL: flying
> > Next project: Pietenpol
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: bungee cord tool |
Hi Fritz,
I'm afraid I am having a hard time visualizing your tool for the
bungee. It sounds like the 2 foot long piece of PVC pipe, sharpened at
one end, that I used to do the original installation. Alas, my simple
tool won't work with the engine installed.
Do you have a picture of your tool?
Paul
On 9/21/2011 1:21 PM, fritz wrote:
>
> try a "8"(?) hinge handle with a 3" extension with a little "duct
> tape" and you a have a great bungee cord installer----- stick the 3"
> extension into the tube which goes through the nose strut.
> Fritz
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
> To: <zenith601-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11
>
>
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> Yes, I like your description of a clamp.
>>
>> I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole a bit
>> bigger so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a side
>> load from the tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also have a
>> tight upper bearing but I don't think that has an impact on
>> rotation. I don't know how to remove the upper bearing without
>> removing the bungee. I had no problem installing and removing the
>> bungee before the engine was installed, but now it looks like a real
>> bear.
>>
>> I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I land with
>> full flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but if I do a
>> no-flaps landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I wish I
>> know enough about mechanical design to be able to figure out how to
>> stop the shimmy at higher speeds.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
>>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by:
>>> "DaveG601XL"<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
>>>
>>> Paul,
>>>
>>> On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is binding
>>> things up? When I first assembled my nose gear, the lower bearing
>>> was acting more like a shaft clamp. I put a thin aluminum shim
>>> between the two bearing halves and got the movement I desired. No
>>> problems with 3 years and 200 hours of flying. Yeah, you still have
>>> to push a Zenith rudder harder than you would in a Champ to overcome
>>> the initial "centering tendency," but I have no problems with it
>>> going back to center.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>>
>>> --------
>>> David Gallagher
>>> 601 XL: flying
>>> Next project: Pietenpol
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 |
Paul
My 701 will get a shake at high speeds and will stop as it slows down. I
know that it is the balancing and will take care of it at the next
conditional inspection. Not sure what I will use for balance though.
Bob
In a message dated 9/21/2011 5:39:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
psm@att.net writes:
Hi Bob,
No, I didn't check the balance of the nose wheel.
What I did do was make the mistake of thinking if I kept a low tire
pressure it would cushion the nose and give me softer touch-down bumps.
Unfortunately, the Matco wheel doesn't hold the tire and tube very well without
a
reasonably high pressure in the tire. The result was the tire and tube
rotated in the wheel and turned the metal valve stem into a pretzel. I
replaced the tube assembly with one I had laying around the shop and didn't
consider the balancing issue.
I suppose the nose gear vibrations could be a wheel balance issue, but I
can really feel the side to side motion in the rudder pedals when the gear
touches down at relatively high speed. My guess is the direct linkage
between the pedals and the strut really need some sort of shock absorber or
damper in the connection someplace.
I also guess the source of the vibration is a slight misalignment between
the nose wheel and runway at touchdown. There doesn't seem to be any
feature in this design that straightens out the wheel when it is a little out
of
alignment. The last plane I flew (a Tecnam Echo Super) had a trailing
link design in the nose gear that naturally wants to go straight.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 2:12 PM, _NYTerminat@aol.com_ (mailto:NYTerminat@aol.com)
wrote:
Paul, did you check the balance of the front tire and rim?
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 9/21/2011 3:14:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_psm@att.net_ (mailto:psm@att.net) writes:
(mailto:psm@att.net)
Hi David,
Yes, I like your description of a clamp.
I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole a bit
bigger so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a side load
from the tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also have a tight
upper bearing but I don't think that has an impact on rotation. I don't
know how to remove the upper bearing without removing the bungee. I had
no problem installing and removing the bungee before the engine was
installed, but now it looks like a real bear.
I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I land with
full flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but if I do a
no-flaps landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I wish I know
enough about mechanical design to be able to figure out how to stop the
shimmy at higher speeds.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by:
"DaveG601XL"_<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>_ (mailto:david.m.gallagher@ge.com)
>
> Paul,
>
> On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is binding things
up? When I first assembled my nose gear, the lower bearing was acting
more like a shaft clamp. I put a thin aluminum shim between the two bearing
halves and got the movement I desired. No problems with 3 years and 200
hours of flying. Yeah, you still have to push a Zenith rudder harder than you
would in a Champ to overcome the initial "centering tendency," but I have
no problems with it going back to center.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL: flying
> Next project: Pietenpol
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> _http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872_
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872)
>
>
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 |
HI Bob,
If I wanted to do that (and I am now considering it) I would take the
whole wheel assembly down to my local tire shop and ask them to balance
it. They have both the tools and weights to do the job and already know
how to do it.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 2:55 PM, NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
> Paul
> My 701 will get a shake at high speeds and will stop as it slows down.
> I know that it is the balancing and will take care of it at the next
> conditional inspection. Not sure what I will use for balance though.
> Bob
> In a message dated 9/21/2011 5:39:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> psm@att.net writes:
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> No, I didn't check the balance of the nose wheel.
>
> What I did do was make the mistake of thinking if I kept a low
> tire pressure it would cushion the nose and give me softer
> touch-down bumps. Unfortunately, the Matco wheel doesn't hold the
> tire and tube very well without a reasonably high pressure in the
> tire. The result was the tire and tube rotated in the wheel and
> turned the metal valve stem into a pretzel. I replaced the tube
> assembly with one I had laying around the shop and didn't consider
> the balancing issue.
>
> I suppose the nose gear vibrations could be a wheel balance issue,
> but I can really feel the side to side motion in the rudder pedals
> when the gear touches down at relatively high speed. My guess is
> the direct linkage between the pedals and the strut really need
> some sort of shock absorber or damper in the connection someplace.
>
> I also guess the source of the vibration is a slight misalignment
> between the nose wheel and runway at touchdown. There doesn't
> seem to be any feature in this design that straightens out the
> wheel when it is a little out of alignment. The last plane I flew
> (a Tecnam Echo Super) had a trailing link design in the nose gear
> that naturally wants to go straight.
>
> Paul
>
> On 9/21/2011 2:12 PM, NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
>> Paul, did you check the balance of the front tire and rim?
>> Bob Spudis
>> In a message dated 9/21/2011 3:14:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> psm@att.net writes:
>>
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> Yes, I like your description of a clamp.
>>
>> I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole
>> a bit
>> bigger so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a
>> side load
>> from the tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also
>> have a tight
>> upper bearing but I don't think that has an impact on
>> rotation. I don't
>> know how to remove the upper bearing without removing the
>> bungee. I had
>> no problem installing and removing the bungee before the
>> engine was
>> installed, but now it looks like a real bear.
>>
>> I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I
>> land with
>> full flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but
>> if I do a
>> no-flaps landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I
>> wish I know
>> enough about mechanical design to be able to figure out how
>> to stop the
>> shimmy at higher speeds.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
>> > --> Zenith601-List message posted by:
>> "DaveG601XL"<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
>> >
>> > Paul,
>> >
>> > On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is
>> binding things up? When I first assembled my nose gear, the
>> lower bearing was acting more like a shaft clamp. I put a
>> thin aluminum shim between the two bearing halves and got the
>> movement I desired. No problems with 3 years and 200 hours
>> of flying. Yeah, you still have to push a Zenith rudder
>> harder than you would in a Champ to overcome the initial
>> "centering tendency," but I have no problems with it going
>> back to center.
>> >
>> > Hope this helps,
>> >
>> > --------
>> > David Gallagher
>> > 601 XL: flying
>> > Next project: Pietenpol
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
> s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: bungee cord tool |
I'll try to explain what I used to install my nose gear bungee.
It is just a combination of 2 Craftsman tools which most folks would have in
their toolbox. Mine happen to be Craftsman brand tools. I just measured
my tools.
1) a 10" X 3/8" drive, breaker bar---- this might be the wrong name--- a
handle with a hinged end that a socket will fit on. Used to loosen a very
tight nut before you can use a ratchet.
2) a 3" X 3/8" drive, extension, used to lengthen the reach between the
socket and ratchet, in this case the "breaker bar".
3) duct tape the extension to the breaker bar because when you go to put
the bungee on, the force tries to separate the extension form the breaker
bar.
The bungee is looped behind the "hook" on the top aft of pin through nose
strut,brought down around the pin which is secured to the fire wall and
brought up as close as possible to the front of the pin which goes through
the nose strut.
(this we all know--- just trying to explain how I did it without an
expensive Bungee tool.)
At this time, slide the 3" extension into the forward side of the bungee
support pin which goes through the nose strut, have the breaker bar handle
inside the bungee cord. The handle will be at about the 5 o'clock position,
as you rotate the handle up, the bungee cord will slide down the handle and
on to the pin.
The duct tape also helps cushion the area where the bungee cord contacts the
nose strut pin---- There is a lot of pressure on the bungee cord at this
time.
I hope this helps, it worked great for me. Maybe some else can explain
it better than I did.
Fritz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: bungee cord tool
>
> Hi Fritz,
>
> I'm afraid I am having a hard time visualizing your tool for the bungee.
> It sounds like the 2 foot long piece of PVC pipe, sharpened at one end,
> that I used to do the original installation. Alas, my simple tool won't
> work with the engine installed.
>
> Do you have a picture of your tool?
>
> Paul
>
> On 9/21/2011 1:21 PM, fritz wrote:
>>
>> try a "8"(?) hinge handle with a 3" extension with a little "duct tape"
>> and you a have a great bungee cord installer----- stick the 3" extension
>> into the tube which goes through the nose strut.
>> Fritz
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
>> To: <zenith601-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>> Yes, I like your description of a clamp.
>>>
>>> I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole a bit
>>> bigger so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a side load
>>> from the tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also have a tight
>>> upper bearing but I don't think that has an impact on rotation. I don't
>>> know how to remove the upper bearing without removing the bungee. I had
>>> no problem installing and removing the bungee before the engine was
>>> installed, but now it looks like a real bear.
>>>
>>> I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I land with
>>> full flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but if I do a
>>> no-flaps landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I wish I know
>>> enough about mechanical design to be able to figure out how to stop the
>>> shimmy at higher speeds.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
>>>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by:
>>>> "DaveG601XL"<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
>>>>
>>>> Paul,
>>>>
>>>> On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is binding
>>>> things up? When I first assembled my nose gear, the lower bearing was
>>>> acting more like a shaft clamp. I put a thin aluminum shim between the
>>>> two bearing halves and got the movement I desired. No problems with 3
>>>> years and 200 hours of flying. Yeah, you still have to push a Zenith
>>>> rudder harder than you would in a Champ to overcome the initial
>>>> "centering tendency," but I have no problems with it going back to
>>>> center.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>
>>>> --------
>>>> David Gallagher
>>>> 601 XL: flying
>>>> Next project: Pietenpol
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 |
Paul -
I had a 180 MPH dragster that used the small aircraft wheels and tires we
are dealing with, and it's very easy to balance them at home. Just level the
spindle, remove the grease and seals from the bearing, lube the bearings
with a light oil, assemble the wheel and bearings on the spindle but only
put the spindle nut on where it is just touching the bearings. Give it a
light spin and wait for it to stop. The heavy part of the tire will be at 6
O'clock, mark the tire at the position. Do it a couple of times to verify
the heavy spot always ends up at 6:00. After that, all you need to do is get
some of the stick-on tire weight and apply them opposite the heavy mark
until the tire balances. Make sure you clean the wheel real well with
solvent before putting the stick-on weights on. On the drag cars we used to
put a layer of racer tape over the weight as a precaution, but the stick-on
weight glue is really good.
Thanks - Brad
Brad Rawls
Brad@ocbis.com
From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11
HI Bob,
If I wanted to do that (and I am now considering it) I would take the whole
wheel assembly down to my local tire shop and ask them to balance it. They
have both the tools and weights to do the job and already know how to do it.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 2:55 PM, NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
Paul
My 701 will get a shake at high speeds and will stop as it slows down. I
know that it is the balancing and will take care of it at the next
conditional inspection. Not sure what I will use for balance though.
Bob
In a message dated 9/21/2011 5:39:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, psm@att.net
writes:
Hi Bob,
No, I didn't check the balance of the nose wheel.
What I did do was make the mistake of thinking if I kept a low tire pressure
it would cushion the nose and give me softer touch-down bumps.
Unfortunately, the Matco wheel doesn't hold the tire and tube very well
without a reasonably high pressure in the tire. The result was the tire and
tube rotated in the wheel and turned the metal valve stem into a pretzel. I
replaced the tube assembly with one I had laying around the shop and didn't
consider the balancing issue.
I suppose the nose gear vibrations could be a wheel balance issue, but I can
really feel the side to side motion in the rudder pedals when the gear
touches down at relatively high speed. My guess is the direct linkage
between the pedals and the strut really need some sort of shock absorber or
damper in the connection someplace.
I also guess the source of the vibration is a slight misalignment between
the nose wheel and runway at touchdown. There doesn't seem to be any
feature in this design that straightens out the wheel when it is a little
out of alignment. The last plane I flew (a Tecnam Echo Super) had a
trailing link design in the nose gear that naturally wants to go straight.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 2:12 PM, NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
Paul, did you check the balance of the front tire and rim?
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 9/21/2011 3:14:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, psm@att.net
writes:
<psm@att.net>
Hi David,
Yes, I like your description of a clamp.
I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole a bit
bigger so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a side load
from the tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also have a tight
upper bearing but I don't think that has an impact on rotation. I don't
know how to remove the upper bearing without removing the bungee. I had
no problem installing and removing the bungee before the engine was
installed, but now it looks like a real bear.
I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I land with
full flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but if I do a
no-flaps landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I wish I know
enough about mechanical design to be able to figure out how to stop the
shimmy at higher speeds.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL"
<mailto:david.m.gallagher@ge.com> <david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
>
> Paul,
>
> On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is binding things
up? When I first assembled my nose gear, the lower bearing was acting more
like a shaft clamp. I put a thin aluminum shim between the two bearing
halves and got the movement I desired. No problems with 3 years and 200
hours of flying. Yeah, you still have to push a Zenith rudder harder than
you would in a Champ to overcome the initial "centering tendency," but I
have no problems with it going back to center.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL: flying
> Next project: Pietenpol
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872
>
>
href= <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith601-List
s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: bungee cord tool |
Installing the nose gear bungee with a pry bar is OK, if the engine is not
installed. With an engine in place, using a pry bar is impossible. I boug
ht the recommended installation tool from Kobush Welding. Even with that t
ool, removing and re-installing a bungee would be hard, but not impossible.
Jay
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: bungee cord tool |
Hi Fritz,
I think I get it. Sort of, anyway.
It sounds a lot like my sharpened piece of PVC pipe. In that case (with
no engine in the way) you put the sharp point on top of the steel tube
(the pin on the gear column) after going through the bungee cord. Then
when you lift the other end of the pipe the cord slips onto the pin.
You can reverse the process by placing the sharp point on the bottom of
the pin and twisting it to get the plastic pipe under the bungee cord.
Then when you push the other end of the pipe down it lifts the bungee
cord and slips it off the pin and down the pipe.
I think I followed your tool using the breaker bar and extension to
install the bungee, but I don't see how this approach can remove the
bungee from the pin.
Perhaps some hybrid of the sharpened pipe and the extension/breaker bar?
Paul
On 9/21/2011 3:24 PM, fritz wrote:
>
> I'll try to explain what I used to install my nose gear bungee.
>
> It is just a combination of 2 Craftsman tools which most folks would
> have in their toolbox. Mine happen to be Craftsman brand tools. I
> just measured my tools.
>
> 1) a 10" X 3/8" drive, breaker bar---- this might be the wrong name---
> a handle with a hinged end that a socket will fit on. Used to loosen
> a very tight nut before you can use a ratchet.
>
> 2) a 3" X 3/8" drive, extension, used to lengthen the reach between
> the socket and ratchet, in this case the "breaker bar".
>
> 3) duct tape the extension to the breaker bar because when you go to
> put the bungee on, the force tries to separate the extension form the
> breaker bar.
>
> The bungee is looped behind the "hook" on the top aft of pin through
> nose strut,brought down around the pin which is secured to the fire
> wall and brought up as close as possible to the front of the pin which
> goes through the nose strut.
>
> (this we all know--- just trying to explain how I did it without an
> expensive Bungee tool.)
>
> At this time, slide the 3" extension into the forward side of the
> bungee support pin which goes through the nose strut, have the breaker
> bar handle inside the bungee cord. The handle will be at about the 5
> o'clock position, as you rotate the handle up, the bungee cord will
> slide down the handle and on to the pin.
>
> The duct tape also helps cushion the area where the bungee cord
> contacts the nose strut pin---- There is a lot of pressure on the
> bungee cord at this time.
>
> I hope this helps, it worked great for me. Maybe some else can
> explain it better than I did.
> Fritz
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
> To: <zenith601-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 5:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: bungee cord tool
>
>
>>
>> Hi Fritz,
>>
>> I'm afraid I am having a hard time visualizing your tool for the
>> bungee. It sounds like the 2 foot long piece of PVC pipe, sharpened
>> at one end, that I used to do the original installation. Alas, my
>> simple tool won't work with the engine installed.
>>
>> Do you have a picture of your tool?
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 9/21/2011 1:21 PM, fritz wrote:
>>>
>>> try a "8"(?) hinge handle with a 3" extension with a little "duct
>>> tape" and you a have a great bungee cord installer----- stick the 3"
>>> extension into the tube which goes through the nose strut.
>>> Fritz
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
>>> To: <zenith601-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:10 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
>>> 09/20/11
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi David,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I like your description of a clamp.
>>>>
>>>> I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole a bit
>>>> bigger so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a side
>>>> load from the tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also have
>>>> a tight upper bearing but I don't think that has an impact on
>>>> rotation. I don't know how to remove the upper bearing without
>>>> removing the bungee. I had no problem installing and removing the
>>>> bungee before the engine was installed, but now it looks like a
>>>> real bear.
>>>>
>>>> I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I land
>>>> with full flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but if
>>>> I do a no-flaps landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I
>>>> wish I know enough about mechanical design to be able to figure out
>>>> how to stop the shimmy at higher speeds.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
>>>>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by:
>>>>> "DaveG601XL"<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul,
>>>>>
>>>>> On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is binding
>>>>> things up? When I first assembled my nose gear, the lower bearing
>>>>> was acting more like a shaft clamp. I put a thin aluminum shim
>>>>> between the two bearing halves and got the movement I desired. No
>>>>> problems with 3 years and 200 hours of flying. Yeah, you still
>>>>> have to push a Zenith rudder harder than you would in a Champ to
>>>>> overcome the initial "centering tendency," but I have no problems
>>>>> with it going back to center.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>
>>>>> --------
>>>>> David Gallagher
>>>>> 601 XL: flying
>>>>> Next project: Pietenpol
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: bungee cord tool |
Jay,
I did it with that tool and your right it wasn't exactly fun but can
be done. With the Corvair had to remove the intake and carb first to
have room. David Coberly 601XLB
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Bannister <jaybannist@cs.com>
Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:03 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: bungee cord tool
Installing the nose gear bungee with a pry bar is OK, if the engine is
not installed. With an engine in place, using a pry bar is
impossible. I bought the recommended installation tool from Kobush
Welding. Even with that tool, removing and re-installing a bungee
would be hard, but not impossible.
Jay
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 |
Yes you could put weights on the rim but I was thinking about something
inside the tire such as Dyna Beads. My brother uses them in his motorcycle
tires and swears by them.
Bob
In a message dated 9/21/2011 6:09:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
psm@att.net writes:
HI Bob,
If I wanted to do that (and I am now considering it) I would take the
whole wheel assembly down to my local tire shop and ask them to balance it.
They have both the tools and weights to do the job and already know how to do
it.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 2:55 PM, _NYTerminat@aol.com_ (mailto:NYTerminat@aol.com)
wrote:
Paul
My 701 will get a shake at high speeds and will stop as it slows down. I
know that it is the balancing and will take care of it at the next
conditional inspection. Not sure what I will use for balance though.
Bob
In a message dated 9/21/2011 5:39:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_psm@att.net_ (mailto:psm@att.net) writes:
Hi Bob,
No, I didn't check the balance of the nose wheel.
What I did do was make the mistake of thinking if I kept a low tire
pressure it would cushion the nose and give me softer touch-down bumps.
Unfortunately, the Matco wheel doesn't hold the tire and tube very well without
a
reasonably high pressure in the tire. The result was the tire and tube
rotated in the wheel and turned the metal valve stem into a pretzel. I
replaced the tube assembly with one I had laying around the shop and didn't
consider the balancing issue.
I suppose the nose gear vibrations could be a wheel balance issue, but I
can really feel the side to side motion in the rudder pedals when the gear
touches down at relatively high speed. My guess is the direct linkage
between the pedals and the strut really need some sort of shock absorber or
damper in the connection someplace.
I also guess the source of the vibration is a slight misalignment between
the nose wheel and runway at touchdown. There doesn't seem to be any
feature in this design that straightens out the wheel when it is a little out
of
alignment. The last plane I flew (a Tecnam Echo Super) had a trailing
link design in the nose gear that naturally wants to go straight.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 2:12 PM, _NYTerminat@aol.com_ (mailto:NYTerminat@aol.com)
wrote:
Paul, did you check the balance of the front tire and rim?
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 9/21/2011 3:14:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_psm@att.net_ (mailto:psm@att.net) writes:
(mailto:psm@att.net)
Hi David,
Yes, I like your description of a clamp.
I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole a bit
bigger so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a side load
from the tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also have a tight
upper bearing but I don't think that has an impact on rotation. I don't
know how to remove the upper bearing without removing the bungee. I had
no problem installing and removing the bungee before the engine was
installed, but now it looks like a real bear.
I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I land with
full flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but if I do a
no-flaps landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I wish I know
enough about mechanical design to be able to figure out how to stop the
shimmy at higher speeds.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by:
"DaveG601XL"_<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>_ (mailto:david.m.gallagher@ge.com)
>
> Paul,
>
> On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is binding things
up? When I first assembled my nose gear, the lower bearing was acting
more like a shaft clamp. I put a thin aluminum shim between the two bearing
halves and got the movement I desired. No problems with 3 years and 200
hours of flying. Yeah, you still have to push a Zenith rudder harder than
you would in a Champ to overcome the initial "centering tendency," but I have
no problems with it going back to center.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL: flying
> Next project: Pietenpol
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> _http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872_
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872)
>
>
href=_"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List"_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
>_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
s.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_
(http://forums.matronics.com/)
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 |
Hi Brad,
I think I got it.
Do you hold the axle horizontally to spin the wheel?
Paul
On 9/21/2011 3:39 PM, Brad Rawls wrote:
>
> Paul --
>
> I had a 180 MPH dragster that used the small aircraft wheels and tires
> we are dealing with, and it's very easy to balance them at home. Just
> level the spindle, remove the grease and seals from the bearing,
> lube the bearings with a light oil, assemble the wheel and bearings
> on the spindle but only put the spindle nut on where it is just
> touching the bearings. Give it a light spin and wait for it to stop.
> The heavy part of the tire will be at 6 O'clock, mark the tire at the
> position. Do it a couple of times to verify the heavy spot always ends
> up at 6:00. After that, all you need to do is get some of the stick-on
> tire weight and apply them opposite the heavy mark until the tire
> balances. Make sure you clean the wheel real well with solvent before
> putting the stick-on weights on. On the drag cars we used to put a
> layer of racer tape over the weight as a precaution, but the stick-on
> weight glue is really good.
>
> Thanks - Brad
>
> Brad Rawls
>
> Brad@ocbis.com
>
> *From:*owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul
> Mulwitz
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:06 PM
> *To:* zenith601-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
> 09/20/11
>
> HI Bob,
>
> If I wanted to do that (and I am now considering it) I would take the
> whole wheel assembly down to my local tire shop and ask them to
> balance it. They have both the tools and weights to do the job and
> already know how to do it.
>
> Paul
>
> On 9/21/2011 2:55 PM, NYTerminat@aol.com <mailto:NYTerminat@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> Paul
>
> My 701 will get a shake at high speeds and will stop as it slows down.
> I know that it is the balancing and will take care of it at the next
> conditional inspection. Not sure what I will use for balance though.
>
> Bob
>
> In a message dated 9/21/2011 5:39:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> psm@att.net <mailto:psm@att.net> writes:
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> No, I didn't check the balance of the nose wheel.
>
> What I did do was make the mistake of thinking if I kept a low
> tire pressure it would cushion the nose and give me softer
> touch-down bumps. Unfortunately, the Matco wheel doesn't hold the
> tire and tube very well without a reasonably high pressure in the
> tire. The result was the tire and tube rotated in the wheel and
> turned the metal valve stem into a pretzel. I replaced the tube
> assembly with one I had laying around the shop and didn't consider
> the balancing issue.
>
> I suppose the nose gear vibrations could be a wheel balance issue,
> but I can really feel the side to side motion in the rudder pedals
> when the gear touches down at relatively high speed. My guess is
> the direct linkage between the pedals and the strut really need
> some sort of shock absorber or damper in the connection someplace.
>
> I also guess the source of the vibration is a slight misalignment
> between the nose wheel and runway at touchdown. There doesn't
> seem to be any feature in this design that straightens out the
> wheel when it is a little out of alignment. The last plane I flew
> (a Tecnam Echo Super) had a trailing link design in the nose gear
> that naturally wants to go straight.
>
> Paul
>
> On 9/21/2011 2:12 PM, NYTerminat@aol.com
> <mailto:NYTerminat@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Paul, did you check the balance of the front tire and rim?
>
> Bob Spudis
>
> In a message dated 9/21/2011 3:14:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> psm@att.net <mailto:psm@att.net> writes:
>
> <psm@att.net> <mailto:psm@att.net>
>
> Hi David,
>
> Yes, I like your description of a clamp.
>
> I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole a
> bit
> bigger so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a
> side load
> from the tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also have
> a tight
> upper bearing but I don't think that has an impact on
> rotation. I don't
> know how to remove the upper bearing without removing the
> bungee. I had
> no problem installing and removing the bungee before the
> engine was
> installed, but now it looks like a real bear.
>
> I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I
> land with
> full flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but if
> I do a
> no-flaps landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I
> wish I know
> enough about mechanical design to be able to figure out how to
> stop the
> shimmy at higher speeds.
>
> Paul
>
> On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
> > --> Zenith601-List message posted by:
> "DaveG601XL"<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
> <mailto:david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is
> binding things up? When I first assembled my nose gear, the
> lower bearing was acting more like a shaft clamp. I put a
> thin aluminum shim between the two bearing halves and got the
> movement I desired. No problems with 3 years and 200 hours of
> flying. Yeah, you still have to push a Zenith rudder harder
> than you would in a Champ to overcome the initial "centering
> tendency," but I have no problems with it going back to center.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > --------
> > David Gallagher
> > 601 XL: flying
> > Next project: Pietenpol
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List" <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List*
>
> *s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
> * *
> * *
> * http://www.mat=====================http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web generous nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/c= <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>*
> * * <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM |
Jay,
You had better go and recheck your trigonometry. Adjusting the
pedals to the rear making the axis of the rudder pedal parallel to the nose
strut will fix the cable tension problem. This problem is similar the need to
have the axis of the elevator bellcrank parrallel to the pivot points on
the elevator. do not archive.
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM |
crickets
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: JohnDRead <JohnDRead@aol.com>
Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2011 6:36 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Flight Test Update - N776PM
Jay,
You had better go and recheck your trigonometry. Adjusting the peda
ls to the rear making the axis of the rudder pedal parallel to the nose str
ut will fix the cable tension problem. This problem is similar the need to
have the axis of the elevator bellcrank parrallel to the pivot points on th
e elevator. do not archive.
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: bungee cord tool |
Also known as a flex handle.
On Sep 21, 2011, at 6:24 PM, fritz wrote:
> 1) a 10" X 3/8" drive, breaker bar---- this might be the wrong name--- a handle
with a hinged end that a socket will fit on. Used to loosen a very tight nut
before you can use a ratchet.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: bungee cord tool-install only |
Paul-- not for removal. I simply put tape around the pin so there would not
be any "sharp" edges and pry'd it off with a large screwdriver.
Fritz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: bungee cord tool
>
> Hi Fritz,
>
> I think I get it. Sort of, anyway.
>
> It sounds a lot like my sharpened piece of PVC pipe. In that case (with
> no engine in the way) you put the sharp point on top of the steel tube
> (the pin on the gear column) after going through the bungee cord. Then
> when you lift the other end of the pipe the cord slips onto the pin.
>
> You can reverse the process by placing the sharp point on the bottom of
> the pin and twisting it to get the plastic pipe under the bungee cord.
> Then when you push the other end of the pipe down it lifts the bungee cord
> and slips it off the pin and down the pipe.
>
> I think I followed your tool using the breaker bar and extension to
> install the bungee, but I don't see how this approach can remove the
> bungee from the pin.
>
> Perhaps some hybrid of the sharpened pipe and the extension/breaker bar?
>
> Paul
>
> On 9/21/2011 3:24 PM, fritz wrote:
>>
>> I'll try to explain what I used to install my nose gear bungee.
>>
>> It is just a combination of 2 Craftsman tools which most folks would have
>> in their toolbox. Mine happen to be Craftsman brand tools. I just
>> measured my tools.
>>
>> 1) a 10" X 3/8" drive, breaker bar---- this might be the wrong name---
>> a handle with a hinged end that a socket will fit on. Used to loosen a
>> very tight nut before you can use a ratchet.
>>
>> 2) a 3" X 3/8" drive, extension, used to lengthen the reach between the
>> socket and ratchet, in this case the "breaker bar".
>>
>> 3) duct tape the extension to the breaker bar because when you go to put
>> the bungee on, the force tries to separate the extension form the breaker
>> bar.
>>
>> The bungee is looped behind the "hook" on the top aft of pin through nose
>> strut,brought down around the pin which is secured to the fire wall and
>> brought up as close as possible to the front of the pin which goes
>> through the nose strut.
>>
>> (this we all know--- just trying to explain how I did it without an
>> expensive Bungee tool.)
>>
>> At this time, slide the 3" extension into the forward side of the bungee
>> support pin which goes through the nose strut, have the breaker bar
>> handle inside the bungee cord. The handle will be at about the 5 o'clock
>> position, as you rotate the handle up, the bungee cord will slide down
>> the handle and on to the pin.
>>
>> The duct tape also helps cushion the area where the bungee cord contacts
>> the nose strut pin---- There is a lot of pressure on the bungee cord at
>> this time.
>>
>> I hope this helps, it worked great for me. Maybe some else can
>> explain it better than I did.
>> Fritz
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
>> To: <zenith601-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 5:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: bungee cord tool
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Fritz,
>>>
>>> I'm afraid I am having a hard time visualizing your tool for the bungee.
>>> It sounds like the 2 foot long piece of PVC pipe, sharpened at one end,
>>> that I used to do the original installation. Alas, my simple tool won't
>>> work with the engine installed.
>>>
>>> Do you have a picture of your tool?
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> On 9/21/2011 1:21 PM, fritz wrote:
>>>>
>>>> try a "8"(?) hinge handle with a 3" extension with a little "duct tape"
>>>> and you a have a great bungee cord installer----- stick the 3"
>>>> extension into the tube which goes through the nose strut.
>>>> Fritz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
>>>> To: <zenith601-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:10 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs -
>>>> 09/20/11
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I like your description of a clamp.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole a bit
>>>>> bigger so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a side load
>>>>> from the tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also have a tight
>>>>> upper bearing but I don't think that has an impact on rotation. I
>>>>> don't know how to remove the upper bearing without removing the
>>>>> bungee. I had no problem installing and removing the bungee before
>>>>> the engine was installed, but now it looks like a real bear.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I land with
>>>>> full flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but if I do a
>>>>> no-flaps landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I wish I
>>>>> know enough about mechanical design to be able to figure out how to
>>>>> stop the shimmy at higher speeds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:
>>>>>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by:
>>>>>> "DaveG601XL"<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is binding
>>>>>> things up? When I first assembled my nose gear, the lower bearing
>>>>>> was acting more like a shaft clamp. I put a thin aluminum shim
>>>>>> between the two bearing halves and got the movement I desired. No
>>>>>> problems with 3 years and 200 hours of flying. Yeah, you still have
>>>>>> to push a Zenith rudder harder than you would in a Champ to overcome
>>>>>> the initial "centering tendency," but I have no problems with it
>>>>>> going back to center.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------
>>>>>> David Gallagher
>>>>>> 601 XL: flying
>>>>>> Next project: Pietenpol
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: bungee cord tool-install only |
> I changed my nosewheel bungee once with a simple threaded rod as a tool. I had
a Soob
Engine with the radiator mounte 4 inches from the firewall.
I inserted a threaded rod on top of gear leg. Then put a nut and screwed it down
to the top plate (notice tat my top plate uses two bolts -- only one removed
to accomodate the threaded rod). Then removed second bolt and disasembled the
bottom bearing. Finally, unscrewed the rod using vise grip on it.
Reverse procedure to install the new bungee.
Michel
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM |
The nose strut slides up and down parallel to the firewall, the rudder pedals are
fixed to pivot at the bottom to the cabin floor and higher up to the steering
rods connected to the nose strut. This configuration makes it impossible for
the pedals to remain parallel to the strut as the strut deflects. This means
that the rudder cable tension will vary with strut deflection. If the distance
between the connection points of the cable at the pedal and at the rudder horn
varies by a small amount, it will have a significant effect on the cable tension.
The cable tension on the ground is not important, the in-flight tension is very
important. So, the tension should be set for the in-flight configuration, i.e.
with zero strut deflection. Even an sixteenth of an inch of deflection can have
a significant effect on tension. If the cables are too tight in flight, friction
may make it difficult to self center.
On Sep 21, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> Jay,
>
> I don't want to make a big argument over this, but I'm afraid you are not seeing
the truth.
>
> The angle between the rudder pedals and the nose gear strut will influence how
movement in the strut will cause movement in the pedals. Technically this is
not geometry but is trigonometry. Perhaps you are not considering that a change
in angle between the pedals and strut requires a change in length of the
tie rods.
>
> If the pedals and strut are parallel then a small movement in the strut will
not cause a noticeable movement in the pedals. As the angle increases the connected
movement increases. I'm sure there is a SIN or COS function here somewhere
but I don't have the energy to work out the equations.
>
> In the real world, the strut doesn't move very far at all because the bungee
is very strong. I have tried to move it on the ground and my weight is only enough
to get the strut to move an inch or so. It needs to be free to move, but
I doubt you will ever see much more than an inch or two in the strut which might
translate to a few millimeters movement in the rudder pedals.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Paul
>
> On 9/21/2011 7:44 AM, Jay Bannister wrote:
>> Not so. The geometry remains the same.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
>> To: zenith601-list <zenith601-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2011 9:15 am
>> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Flight Test Update - N776PM
>>
>> Hi Jay,
>>
>> Looking at your drawing, I would guess the amount of rudder pedal movement caused
by nose gear strut movement is a function of the setting of the angle of
the rudder pedals. Put differently, if the pedals are moved toward the rear
(for short legged guys like me) then the correlated movement would be minimal.
If the pedals are set forward (for tall guys) then the movement would be more
pronounced.
>>
>> In any case, I agree with Bob that it is not a great idea to make things different
by reducing the rudder cable tension. I think my approach of adjusting
the relative rudder cable lengths is a better way to get neutral rudder trim.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM |
Hi Bryan,
I agree with your comment in principle, but the actual amount of
movement in the rudder pedals will vary depending on the configuration.
The Zodiac has fixed seat location, so the only way to adjust the
position for people of different length legs is to rotate the rudder
pedals in their neutral location. If you rotate them back far enough
the upright portion of the rudder pedal can be parallel to the nose gear
strut. In this case small movements in the strut will make much smaller
movements in the rudder pedals. This is because the rods connecting the
strut to the pedals will be perpendicular to the pedal upright members
and can move without really moving the pedal much at all.
As you move the pedals closer to the firewall for taller people the
angle between the tie rods and the pedal upright member moves away from
90 degrees. This means the same movement in the strut will have a
bigger impact on the rudder pedal location.
As I mentioned earlier, the nose strut movement is pretty small. I have
not measured it in normal flight and landing events, but I would guess a
normal (gentle) touchdown might move the strut less than an inch. In
this case and the case of setting the pedals for a short legged pilot I
doubt you would be able to measure any change at all in either the pedal
position or cable tension.
I agree with you that the tension in flight is the most important. This
is the normal situation anyway since the normal position of the strut
when the plane is on the ground is fully extended.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 7:40 PM, Bryan Martin wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Bryan Martin<bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> The nose strut slides up and down parallel to the firewall, the rudder pedals
are fixed to pivot at the bottom to the cabin floor and higher up to the steering
rods connected to the nose strut. This configuration makes it impossible
for the pedals to remain parallel to the strut as the strut deflects. This means
that the rudder cable tension will vary with strut deflection. If the distance
between the connection points of the cable at the pedal and at the rudder
horn varies by a small amount, it will have a significant effect on the cable
tension.
>
> The cable tension on the ground is not important, the in-flight tension is very
important. So, the tension should be set for the in-flight configuration, i.e.
with zero strut deflection. Even an sixteenth of an inch of deflection can
have a significant effect on tension. If the cables are too tight in flight,
friction may make it difficult to self center.
>
> On Sep 21, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
>> Jay,
>>
>> I don't want to make a big argument over this, but I'm afraid you are not seeing
the truth.
>>
>> The angle between the rudder pedals and the nose gear strut will influence how
movement in the strut will cause movement in the pedals. Technically this
is not geometry but is trigonometry. Perhaps you are not considering that a
change in angle between the pedals and strut requires a change in length of the
tie rods.
>>
>> If the pedals and strut are parallel then a small movement in the strut will
not cause a noticeable movement in the pedals. As the angle increases the connected
movement increases. I'm sure there is a SIN or COS function here somewhere
but I don't have the energy to work out the equations.
>>
>> In the real world, the strut doesn't move very far at all because the bungee
is very strong. I have tried to move it on the ground and my weight is only
enough to get the strut to move an inch or so. It needs to be free to move, but
I doubt you will ever see much more than an inch or two in the strut which
might translate to a few millimeters movement in the rudder pedals.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 9/21/2011 7:44 AM, Jay Bannister wrote:
>>> Not so. The geometry remains the same.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Paul Mulwitz<psm@att.net>
>>> To: zenith601-list<zenith601-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2011 9:15 am
>>> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Flight Test Update - N776PM
>>>
>>> Hi Jay,
>>>
>>> Looking at your drawing, I would guess the amount of rudder pedal movement
caused by nose gear strut movement is a function of the setting of the angle of
the rudder pedals. Put differently, if the pedals are moved toward the rear
(for short legged guys like me) then the correlated movement would be minimal.
If the pedals are set forward (for tall guys) then the movement would be more
pronounced.
>>>
>>> In any case, I agree with Bob that it is not a great idea to make things different
by reducing the rudder cable tension. I think my approach of adjusting
the relative rudder cable lengths is a better way to get neutral rudder trim.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM |
Without rehashing the geometry, I will say that the only two 601s I've
seen with the cowl off did NOT have the strut fully extended on the
ground. One hasn't yet flown (mine) but the other has with no
complaints that I'm aware of. Might this be a clue to your problem?
I'm curious about the at rest positions other may have seen.
Keep up the reports. Very interesting.
Ron
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Sep 21, 2011, at 10:58 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
> I agree with you that the tension in flight is the most important.
> This is the normal situation anyway since the normal position of the
> strut when the plane is on the ground is fully extended.
>
> Paul
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM |
Hi Ron,
How far depressed was the strut in the cases you saw? What engine did
these planes have?
Keep in mind the Jabiru engine I have installed is much lighter than a
Continental, Lycoming, Corvair, or Subaru. The only engine that has a
similar weight is the Rotax 912. I believe there is a 100 pound
difference (give or take) in the installed weight of the Rotax and
Jabiru compared to the other engines. I'm sure the engine weight can
have an impact on the resting position of the nose strut.
Paul
On 9/21/2011 8:34 PM, Ronald Steele wrote:
>
> Without rehashing the geometry, I will say that the only two 601s I've
> seen with the cowl off did NOT have the strut fully extended on the
> ground. One hasn't yet flown (mine) but the other has with no
> complaints that I'm aware of. Might this be a clue to your problem?
> I'm curious about the at rest positions other may have seen.
>
> Keep up the reports. Very interesting.
>
> Ron
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> On Sep 21, 2011, at 10:58 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
>>
>> I agree with you that the tension in flight is the most important.
>> This is the normal situation anyway since the normal position of the
>> strut when the plane is on the ground is fully extended.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>
>
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