Zenith601-List Digest Archive

Thu 09/22/11


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:56 AM - Re: bungee cord tool-threaded rod (fritz)
     2. 04:05 AM - Amazing around the world flight (Jonathan)
     3. 06:25 AM - Re: bungee cord tool-threaded rod (Jeff Davidson)
     4. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 (Brad Rawls)
     5. 09:45 AM - Re: wheel balancing (Carlos Sa)
     6. 10:43 AM - Re: wheel balancing (Brad Rawls)
     7. 11:35 AM - Fw: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Dave Austin)
     8. 11:49 AM - Re: wheel balancing (Carlos Sa)
     9. 12:01 PM - Re: Fw: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Paul Mulwitz)
    10. 12:05 PM - Re: wheel balancing (Paul Mulwitz)
    11. 12:34 PM - Re: wheel balancing (Tonyplane)
    12. 03:20 PM - Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM (Ronald Steele)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:56:18 AM PST US
    From: "fritz" <klondike@megalink.net>
    Subject: Re: bungee cord tool-threaded rod
    sounds like a great idea--- so simple, yet so effective ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr@yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: bungee cord tool-install only > >> I changed my nosewheel bungee once with a simple threaded rod as a tool. >> I had a Soob > Engine with the radiator mounte 4 inches from the firewall. > > I inserted a threaded rod on top of gear leg. Then put a nut and screwed > it down to the top plate (notice tat my top plate uses two bolts -- only > one removed to accomodate the threaded rod). Then removed second bolt and > disasembled the bottom bearing. Finally, unscrewed the rod using vise grip > on it. > > Reverse procedure to install the new bungee. > > > Michel >> >> Sent from my iPad >> > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:05:56 AM PST US
    From: "Jonathan" <jonathan@entry.co.za>
    Subject: Amazing around the world flight
    Hi All, Not strictly Zenith, but amazing just the same: The guys from The Airplane Factory are flying around the world, and are on their second last leg, from Rio to Cape Town, they have just taken off, you can follow them with this link: http://www.airplanefactory.co.za/sling4atw.asp Jonathan ZU-EEC CH601XLb (300+ hours, and loving it!)


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:25:12 AM PST US
    From: Jeff Davidson <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: bungee cord tool-threaded rod
    This is an absolutely brilliant idea! Does anyone want to buy a brand new bungee removal tool? Jeff D. -----Original Message----- >From: fritz <klondike@megalink.net> >Sent: Sep 22, 2011 6:53 AM >To: zenith601-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: bungee cord tool-threaded rod >do not archive > >sounds like a great idea--- so simple, yet so effective >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr@yahoo.com> >To: <zenith601-list@matronics.com> >Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:25 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: bungee cord tool-install only > > >> >>> I changed my nosewheel bungee once with a simple threaded rod as a tool. >>> I had a Soob >> Engine with the radiator mounte 4 inches from the firewall. >> >> I inserted a threaded rod on top of gear leg. Then put a nut and screwed >> it down to the top plate (notice tat my top plate uses two bolts -- only >> one removed to accomodate the threaded rod). Then removed second bolt and >> disasembled the bottom bearing. Finally, unscrewed the rod using vise grip >> on it. >> >> Reverse procedure to install the new bungee. >> >> >> Michel >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:20:03 AM PST US
    From: "Brad Rawls" <Brad@ocbis.com>
    Subject: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11
    Yes, you just need to have it 'eyeball' level. Thanks - Brad Brad Rawls Orange County Brokerage 714-550-0159 voice 714-550-0869 fax Brad@ocbis.com From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:10 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 Hi Brad, I think I got it. Do you hold the axle horizontally to spin the wheel? Paul On 9/21/2011 3:39 PM, Brad Rawls wrote: Paul - I had a 180 MPH dragster that used the small aircraft wheels and tires we are dealing with, and it's very easy to balance them at home. Just level the spindle, remove the grease and seals from the bearing, lube the bearings with a light oil, assemble the wheel and bearings on the spindle but only put the spindle nut on where it is just touching the bearings. Give it a light spin and wait for it to stop. The heavy part of the tire will be at 6 O'clock, mark the tire at the position. Do it a couple of times to verify the heavy spot always ends up at 6:00. After that, all you need to do is get some of the stick-on tire weight and apply them opposite the heavy mark until the tire balances. Make sure you clean the wheel real well with solvent before putting the stick-on weights on. On the drag cars we used to put a layer of racer tape over the weight as a precaution, but the stick-on weight glue is really good. Thanks - Brad Brad Rawls Brad@ocbis.com From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:06 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 HI Bob, If I wanted to do that (and I am now considering it) I would take the whole wheel assembly down to my local tire shop and ask them to balance it. They have both the tools and weights to do the job and already know how to do it. Paul On 9/21/2011 2:55 PM, NYTerminat@aol.com wrote: Paul My 701 will get a shake at high speeds and will stop as it slows down. I know that it is the balancing and will take care of it at the next conditional inspection. Not sure what I will use for balance though. Bob In a message dated 9/21/2011 5:39:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, psm@att.net writes: Hi Bob, No, I didn't check the balance of the nose wheel. What I did do was make the mistake of thinking if I kept a low tire pressure it would cushion the nose and give me softer touch-down bumps. Unfortunately, the Matco wheel doesn't hold the tire and tube very well without a reasonably high pressure in the tire. The result was the tire and tube rotated in the wheel and turned the metal valve stem into a pretzel. I replaced the tube assembly with one I had laying around the shop and didn't consider the balancing issue. I suppose the nose gear vibrations could be a wheel balance issue, but I can really feel the side to side motion in the rudder pedals when the gear touches down at relatively high speed. My guess is the direct linkage between the pedals and the strut really need some sort of shock absorber or damper in the connection someplace. I also guess the source of the vibration is a slight misalignment between the nose wheel and runway at touchdown. There doesn't seem to be any feature in this design that straightens out the wheel when it is a little out of alignment. The last plane I flew (a Tecnam Echo Super) had a trailing link design in the nose gear that naturally wants to go straight. Paul On 9/21/2011 2:12 PM, NYTerminat@aol.com wrote: Paul, did you check the balance of the front tire and rim? Bob Spudis In a message dated 9/21/2011 3:14:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, psm@att.net writes: <psm@att.net> Hi David, Yes, I like your description of a clamp. I wound up taking the lower blocks off and grinding the hole a bit bigger so the column moves freely. I guess there is still a side load from the tie rods connected to the rudder pedals. I also have a tight upper bearing but I don't think that has an impact on rotation. I don't know how to remove the upper bearing without removing the bungee. I had no problem installing and removing the bungee before the engine was installed, but now it looks like a real bear. I was just out doing some circuits and bumps. I found if I land with full flaps the nose wheel behaves when it touches down, but if I do a no-flaps landing it tends to shimmy when it touches down. I wish I know enough about mechanical design to be able to figure out how to stop the shimmy at higher speeds. Paul On 9/21/2011 10:27 AM, DaveG601XL wrote: > --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL" <mailto:david.m.gallagher@ge.com> <david.m.gallagher@ge.com> > > Paul, > > On the rudder, do you suspect that the nose gear strut is binding things up? When I first assembled my nose gear, the lower bearing was acting more like a shaft clamp. I put a thin aluminum shim between the two bearing halves and got the movement I desired. No problems with 3 years and 200 hours of flying. Yeah, you still have to push a Zenith rudder harder than you would in a Champ to overcome the initial "centering tendency," but I have no problems with it going back to center. > > Hope this helps, > > -------- > David Gallagher > 601 XL: flying > Next project: Pietenpol > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352872#352872 > > href= <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List> "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith601-List s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.mat=====================http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web generous nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/c= <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> Email Forum - Navigator to browse List Un/Subscription, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:45:13 AM PST US
    From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: wheel balancing
    Brad, I believe the procedure you described might not work in all cases. For instance, if you have two identical heavy spots opposed in relation to the wheel centre, it would still wobble. I tried to illustrate this in the picture below. The red marks represent the "heavy spots". As the wheel spins, the centrifugal force at these spots will try to twist the tire, and it will wobble - despite the fact that the CG is on the axle. [image: tire.bmp] Carlos On 22 September 2011 12:19, Brad Rawls <Brad@ocbis.com> wrote: > Yes, you just need to have it =91eyeball=92 level.**** > > ** ** > > Thanks - Brad**** > > ** ** > > Brad Rawls**** > > Orange County Brokerage**** > > 714-550-0159 voice**** > > 714-550-0869 fax**** > > Brad@ocbis.com**** > > ** ** > > *From:* owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul Mulwitz > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:10 PM > *To:* zenith601-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - > 09/20/11**** > > ** ** > > Hi Brad, > > I think I got it. > > Do you hold the axle horizontally to spin the wheel? > > Paul > > On 9/21/2011 3:39 PM, Brad Rawls wrote: **** > > Paul '**** > > **** > > I had a 180 MPH dragster that used the small aircraft wheels and tires we > are dealing with, and it=92s very easy to balance them at home. Just leve l the > spindle, remove the grease and seals from the bearing, lube the bearing s > with a light oil, assemble the wheel and bearings on the spindle but only > put the spindle nut on where it is just touching the bearings. Give it a > light spin and wait for it to stop. The heavy part of the tire will be at 6 > O=92clock, mark the tire at the position. Do it a couple of times to veri fy > the heavy spot always ends up at 6:00. After that, all you need to do is get > some of the stick-on tire weight and apply them opposite the heavy mark > until the tire balances. Make sure you clean the wheel real well with > solvent before putting the stick-on weights on. On the drag cars we used to > put a layer of racer tape over the weight as a precaution, but the stick- on > weight glue is really good.**** > > **** > > Thanks - Brad**** > > **** > > Brad Rawls**** > > Brad@ocbis.com >


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:43:48 AM PST US
    From: "Brad Rawls" <Brad@ocbis.com>
    Subject: wheel balancing
    Carlos - I see your point, but I not sure that would be a real world problem with the small diameters and strong sidewalls we are working with. I was giving Paul a method to use at home as opposed to taking the wheel to a tire shop. A shop would most likely bubble balance the wheel, which is not going to cure the problem you describe. Current spin balance machines would not correct for the problem you are describing either. How would you balance the tire in your diagram? Thanks - Brad Brad Rawls Orange County Brokerage 714-550-0159 voice 714-550-0869 fax Brad@ocbis.com From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 9:42 AM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: wheel balancing Brad, I believe the procedure you described might not work in all cases. For instance, if you have two identical heavy spots opposed in relation to the wheel centre, it would still wobble. I tried to illustrate this in the picture below. The red marks represent the "heavy spots". As the wheel spins, the centrifugal force at these spots will try to twist the tire, and it will wobble - despite the fact that the CG is on the axle. tire.bmp Carlos On 22 September 2011 12:19, Brad Rawls <Brad@ocbis.com> wrote: Yes, you just need to have it 'eyeball' level. Thanks - Brad Brad Rawls Orange County Brokerage 714-550-0159 voice 714-550-0869 fax Brad@ocbis.com From: owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:10 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/20/11 Hi Brad, I think I got it. Do you hold the axle horizontally to spin the wheel? Paul On 9/21/2011 3:39 PM, Brad Rawls wrote: Paul - I had a 180 MPH dragster that used the small aircraft wheels and tires we are dealing with, and it's very easy to balance them at home. Just level the spindle, remove the grease and seals from the bearing, lube the bearings with a light oil, assemble the wheel and bearings on the spindle but only put the spindle nut on where it is just touching the bearings. Give it a light spin and wait for it to stop. The heavy part of the tire will be at 6 O'clock, mark the tire at the position. Do it a couple of times to verify the heavy spot always ends up at 6:00. After that, all you need to do is get some of the stick-on tire weight and apply them opposite the heavy mark until the tire balances. Make sure you clean the wheel real well with solvent before putting the stick-on weights on. On the drag cars we used to put a layer of racer tape over the weight as a precaution, but the stick-on weight glue is really good. Thanks - Brad Brad Rawls Brad@ocbis.com


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:35:06 AM PST US
    From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@primus.ca>
    Subject: Flight Test Update - N776PM
    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@primus.ca> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 8:42 PM Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Flight Test Update - N776PM > Hi Paul, > Interesting comments. One question: With your enlarged trim tab, if you had an elevator trim tab > runaway (I have!) can you overcome it with the stick? Try it at a high altitude before you do > get a runaway! > Dave Austin HDS 912U > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:49:14 AM PST US
    From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: wheel balancing
    I don't know how to fix it - I just thought this is the type of thing that can be done in a well-equipped shop...? Carlos On 22 September 2011 13:40, Brad Rawls <Brad@ocbis.com> wrote: > Carlos '**** > > ** ** > > I see your point, but I not sure that would be a real world problem with > the small diameters and strong sidewalls we are working with. I was givi ng > Paul a method to use at home as opposed to taking the wheel to a tire sho p. > A shop would most likely bubble balance the wheel, which is not going to > cure the problem you describe. Current spin balance machines would not > correct for the problem you are describing either. How would you balance > the tire in your diagram?**** > > ** ** > > Thanks - Brad**** > > ** ** > > Brad Rawls**** > > Orange County Brokerage >


    Message 9


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    Time: 12:01:22 PM PST US
    From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM
    Hi Dave, I don't know for sure, but I think that would not be a problem. The trim tab size increase is something less than 50 percent. Also, the elevator authority is a lot higher than the total trim force. I have taken off without adjusting the trim from full flaps to neutral with no flaps and the amount of force needed to get the desired pitch was easy to generate. This might be a direct answer to your question. Paul Camas, WA On 9/22/2011 11:32 AM, Dave Austin wrote: > >> Hi Paul, >> Interesting comments. One question: With your enlarged trim tab, if >> you had an elevator trim tab runaway (I have!) can you overcome it >> with the stick? Try it at a high altitude before you do get a runaway! >> Dave Austin HDS 912U >>


    Message 10


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    Time: 12:05:23 PM PST US
    From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
    Subject: Re: wheel balancing
    Hi guys, This is a very interesting method to balance the wheel and I'm sure it would be easy to do. Of course this would be messy since you need to remove the wheel bearing grease and repack it, but getting full of grease is not the end of the world. On the other hand, I never thought my wheel needs balancing. If the vibration I experience when touching down at higher speed (without flaps) were from poor wheel balance then I would also experience it when taking off at even higher speed. I do not. I still want a way to damp the shimmy I get when landing at higher speeds with the nose wheel slightly misaligned with the runway. Paul On 9/22/2011 11:46 AM, Carlos Sa wrote: > I don't know how to fix it - I just thought this is the type of thing > that can be done in a well-equipped shop...? > > Carlos > > On 22 September 2011 13:40, Brad Rawls <Brad@ocbis.com > <mailto:Brad@ocbis.com>> wrote: > > Carlos > > I see your point, but I not sure that would be a real world > problem with the small diameters and strong sidewalls we are > working with. I was giving Paul a method to use at home as > opposed to taking the wheel to a tire shop. A shop would most > likely bubble balance the wheel, which is not going to cure the > problem you describe. Current spin balance machines would not > correct for the problem you are describing either. How would you > balance the tire in your diagram? > > Thanks - Brad > > Brad Rawls > > Orange County Brokerage > > > * > > > *


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:34:32 PM PST US
    From: Tonyplane <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: wheel balancing
    FWIW. I have 6x600 tires/wheels all around on my XL. When I first flew it in July 05 I had a bad vibration problem which exhibited itself on lift off, f rom the nose wheel. I jacked up the nose, and by rotating the tire/wheel the tire would always go heavy side down. I bought some stick on weights at a l ocal tire shop and installed them on the wheel's outside inner surface for b alancing. Could spin the wheel after balance and it would stop at random loc ations. No more vibes after lift off. Tony Graziano XL/Jab 3300; 630 fun hrs; N493TG Sent from myiPhone On Sep 22, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Carlos Sa <carlossa52@gmail.com> wrote: > I don't know how to fix it - I just thought this is the type of thing that can be done in a well-equipped shop...? > > Carlos > > On 22 September 2011 13:40, Brad Rawls <Brad@ocbis.com> wrote: > Carlos =93 > > > > I see your point, but I not sure that would be a real world problem with t he small diameters and strong sidewalls we are working with. I was giving P aul a method to use at home as opposed to taking the wheel to a tire shop. A shop would most likely bubble balance the wheel, which is not going to cure the problem you describe. Current spin balance machines would not correct f or the problem you are describing either. How would you balance the tire in your diagram? > > > > Thanks - Brad > > > > Brad Rawls > > Orange County Brokerage > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:20:26 PM PST US
    From: Ronald Steele <rsteele@rjsit.com>
    Subject: Re: Flight Test Update - N776PM
    Not depressed much, may 1/8". The point is that if you have no depression, you my have a bungee that is too strong and you may be getting some friction at the top of the strut that interferes with the self centering. Ron On Sep 22, 2011, at 12:04 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > Hi Ron, > > How far depressed was the strut in the cases you saw? What engine > did these planes have? > > Keep in mind the Jabiru engine I have installed is much lighter than > a Continental, Lycoming, Corvair, or Subaru. The only engine that > has a similar weight is the Rotax 912. I believe there is a 100 > pound difference (give or take) in the installed weight of the Rotax > and Jabiru compared to the other engines. I'm sure the engine > weight can have an impact on the resting position of the nose strut. > > Paul > > On 9/21/2011 8:34 PM, Ronald Steele wrote: >> > >> >> Without rehashing the geometry, I will say that the only two 601s >> I've seen with the cowl off did NOT have the strut fully extended >> on the ground. One hasn't yet flown (mine) but the other has with >> no complaints that I'm aware of. Might this be a clue to your >> problem? I'm curious about the at rest positions other may have >> seen. >> >> Keep up the reports. Very interesting. >> >> Ron >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> On Sep 21, 2011, at 10:58 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote: >> >>> >>> I agree with you that the tension in flight is the most >>> important. This is the normal situation anyway since the normal >>> position of the strut when the plane is on the ground is fully >>> extended. >>> >>> Paul >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >




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